Where are we being "taken" with the Poop Solution?
We understand that discussions and negotiations are currently going on with reference to the solution to be implemented to solve the Poop in the Hudson problem for East Greenbush. It is clear that the problem was created in the first place because of the placement of political power interests above the interests of the Community. That being the case, it is hard to conceive of a solution to the problem being developed without those political power interests being in play. And the less the Community knows about what is going on, the more mischief is possible. Remember that East Greenbush got illegal interfund transfers, $2.5 million in debt and Junk Bond ratings directly from playing around with the Poop over 13 years.With these issues in mind, here's a comment by Dwight Jenkins which deserves to be a Post on the matter. And here's the link to the Planning Board Minutes to which he refers:
http://www.eastgreenbush.org/downloads/cat_view/65-planning-board-minutes
"After a rather lengthy delay the Planning Board Minutes are updated on the Town Document Download site. Interestingly, the 5/23/12 minutes reflect a cover-our-ass conversation initiated by the Chair of the Board in which he asked about our Consent Order problem. What we heard was that it is a complex problem, very expensive to repair, we're not the only town dumping sewage, and that we haven't been ignoring the problem. What we didn't hear was a reason for the transfer of sewer funds to the general fund, when we could have and should have used those sewer fund surpluses to address the problem. Of course, we also got more than $6 million dollars in bonding from the County Water and Sewer authority back in 2008 to fix the problem, but we haven't used much of that for anything. It sits there while we pay about seventyfive thousand dollars a month in debt service for unfinished projects that would fix the problem. Look how quickly we spent the $6 million or so bond for water repairs: we banged out infrastructure updates and new water tanks in no time. That was a job well done. As for the sewer? No, this smells like a fight over power, influence, and money, hence the delays, hence the unacted upon consent orders, hence the State is finally pissed enough to jack up the fines to a level where they hurt, hence a connected lawyer got a nice payday to lower those fines somewhat,hence we got a bullshit answer on 5/23/12 in response to a staged question. Go read it for yourself if you don't believe me. Yes, we have problems with aging pipes and rainstorms. NO SHIT! That's what the sewer surplus and the hefty bond were to have fixed by now!"
Dwight Jenkins
The bond you refer to was/is a water -sewer bond the total was six million almost ( 3 million each) the water portion is almost all spent on the two storage tanks the sewer portion is yet to be addressed
ReplyDeletePage 13 of the Water Authority Financial Statements for 2010 states that the Authority bonded for East Greenbush in 2008 as follows: $8,005,000 for Water and $6,555,000 for Sewer.
ReplyDeleteTo a brick wall so we all can beat our heads on it.
ReplyDeleteNO working with the majority board. They have one agenda and that is for themselves.
It never seems to amaze me what the Majority board comes up with.
ReplyDeleteThey hacked away at the ethics code. It might as well be nonexsistant.
Just a big waste of everyone's time.
They played the town and it's people to only do with it what they wanted. Now, I would like to know? What do they plan on doing for the taxpayer? Mrs. O'Brien reminded all of us that she is a taxpayer also. But seemed to fail misserably to take her job seriously and put that first.
What can we exspect from the Majority board on the issue of Sewer?
Will it be the same ol same ol or will we get something finally for our money?
Dear Anonymous:
ReplyDeleteDon't lose hope. Remember we also have the secret Langley/LaBarba sewer plan to take a look at.
Might be time for the Supe and his engineer to clue the public in on it so we can compare it to the upcoming Majority Board sewer plan.
Ya know, the thing that makes me a bit nervous and jerky about what may be developing is that Engineer LaBarba is the Engineer for the County Authority and the Engineer for the EG Sewer operation AND has been the Engineer for the EG sewer operation during the time of the Poop dumping in the river and the non-action during the time of the Orders on Consent. This means to me that he's pretty connected to the current Board majority, and by definition may not be carrying the best interests of the taxpayer into the resolution of the sewer problems.
ReplyDeleteMr. Langley needs to get something on the public record soon, before a "done deal" is out of reach of the public interest.
Dear Anonymous 10:50AM and 9:14AM:
DeleteAgreed!!
Any ideas about why it has taken Mr. Langley so long to get his sewer proposal out there?
His proposal represents the hallmark of his administration.
I'm very interested to see what he has come up with. He's the one with the construction and management background.
Please don't wait too much longer Supervisor Langley. A whole lot of people are counting on you!
I am not a whiz kid on sewage. I am also not a whiz kid on municipal government. So...can someone PLEASE educate me on why all this seems so complicated?
ReplyDeleteThe money seems to be around with the bond. So, is the problem beyond what has been allocated to fix it?
On a related but slightly separate thing...why does every issue around this rather small town of some 17,000 residents seem to have so much complication and drama associated with it?
Do we have people in jobs in town hall who don't know what they are supposed to do? What is so darn hard about running this small town?
If things are done efficiently and economically and professionally there's no room for everybody to get their "cut" of the action.
DeleteI would like to know why they have been sitting on that money for the sewer and treatment plant instead of moving forward and doing something about it?
ReplyDeleteWhy waste money on fines? Someone have their eye on the money instead of using it for what it was intended for.
It has been determined that the age of reasoning is 7. What age does this Board need to be, to start working for the town and not against it.
ReplyDeleteJust heard Lambdin on Channel 13 say that the County is interested in the EG hookup, but that Town officials are moving away from that toward increased bonding to expand EG infrastructure. He said Langley had not granted an interview, but had assigned the contact to two engineers. Does that mean LaBarba and Benko?
ReplyDeleteLooks to me like the current majority is running the show to keep the graft local - along with increased rates and taxes for us.
What will be happening at the "Special" Town Board Meeting on Monday? I always take pause when Ginny et al have something "special" in store for us. Looks like the meeting will be about the disposition of either our poop or our money, probably both.
ReplyDeleteI wonder if this will be a "we're the majority and what we want passes" moment?
DeleteLambdin just reported that the Monday meeting is about a plan to increase the infrastructure capacity in EG as opposed to hooking up to the County system. Lambdin reported that both the majority and the minority were interested in working with the County. For some reason the expanded infrastructure - which is by far the most expensive - is the one getting attention. Why are we finding out about this on Channel 13?
ReplyDeleteSomething is beginning to smell real bad. Like say one thing and do another? Lots of graft and contracts and fees and contributions for both political Parties if the taxpayers get stuck with a bond issue and seriously increased fees and rates to fund the local infrastructure expansion. Do you think we'll get a chance to express an opinion as stakeholders and the people with the pocketbooks?
Dear Gadfly 6:29 PM:
ReplyDeleteKeith Langley will never let this happen without a fight. Keith always wants to hear what people have to say. He is a great leader. Maybe he is coordinating this with Bill Lambdin. I wouldn't put it beyond Keith. He is a man who is always two steps ahead of everyone else.
Having Bill Lambdin and his camera crew at the Monday meeting will give Keith a terrific opportunity to get his own sewer proposal on the record and out before the public.
I for one am looking forward to Keith's presentation. He will set things straight for sure!!
Having trouble believeing Langley wants to hear what people have to say.
ReplyDeleteDiogenes, you are either part of a political committee or a crack addict. This decision will be made based on pure power politics, plain and simple. The old fashioned way. I think a class action lawsuit on behalf of all those living in the sewer districts would be in order. We know that sewer funds were diverted to the general fund in the past. We know that the Town allegedly lowered the sewer district rates this year, I think, as a way of atoning for past billing inequities. We believe that the Town has been sufficiently bonded to address the problem. We know that the County can handle the waste cheaper than we can expand capacity. So why this insistence on going the more expensive route? Who's making out, and who's losing out? Follow the money, and let's find an out-of-town lawyer not afraid to tackle those robbing us blind. Advertiser article follows, direct mail campaign to those in the sewer districts.... Could be the way to go. Dwight Jenkins
ReplyDeleteDear Anonymous 8:16 PM and 8:25 PM (Dwight):
ReplyDeleteIndeed!
"Irony is the sincerest form of parody" (or something like that).
Great idea Dwight!! Politicians stole the Sewer money and spent it on unbudgeted stuff (drunken sailor spending) in the General Fund - to the tune of $2.5 million. This is the direct cause of the Town's current debt. This is the direct cause of the Town's Junk bond rating from Moody's and S&P. As I understand it, the $6.5 million in Sewer bonding in 2008 was to address sewer infrastructure issues, and whatever was spent was frittered away. The majority and the "longtime" engineers who presided over this debacle for the last 13 years should be answering some questions before we even consider waltzing off into the sunset with the same crowd who got us into this crap.
ReplyDeleteInstead of doing his "Silent Cal" routine and letting those "engineers" talk, the Supervisor should explain his position and refer the media to Majority Leader O'Brien for some answers.
In the later news report Lambdin mentioned the town was leaning toward improvements. Can we find out more from him? It seems clear we can't find out from the Town. I'm worried!! Can they spend the money for the fix on new stuff without public approval? Who would approve of these guys who have so badly screwed up building anything?
ReplyDeleteNew bonding needs to go to the voters, right? Keith Langley and Rick Matters please, please force the majority plan out into the open. I think the people will take it from there.
"Special Town Board Meetings" have ALWAYS been a way to slip things by citizens and taxpayers.
ReplyDeleteThey are ALWAYS held with minimum notice. They are ALWAYS held at hours intended to discourage attendance. They are ALWAYS held without a public comment period. They are ALWAYS held close to a regular Town Board meeting.
And...Special Town Board Meetings ALWAYS mean we are about to get screwed - AGAIN.
We need a revolt against special board meetings. We really do.
4:34 AM
DeleteI agree with you.
So why does Langley ALWAYS schedule them?
Maybe there should be an L.a. for LAngley added to M.O.M?
How does LaMOM sound?
Parlez-vous francais?
I feel that the Majority board are leaning tords tax increases.. I feel it coming.
ReplyDeleteYou all watch. It will happen. When has this majority board said this town can't take anymore increases?
That is what we are going to get with this Majority board. They love our money. They want to leave the county out so they can claim the money.
Langley is not going to do one thihg.
Get with the program. Anytime the supervisor tries to do anything positive for our town the board majority just shoots him down.This town is not going to change direction until you give this supervisor the tools to do the job. It is simple change the board majority M.O.M. has to go. How much more of their arrogance can you take? If you and others want change offer the supervisor your help not advise.
DeleteDear Anonymous 9:10 AM:
DeleteIf what you say is true about Supervisor Langley, then why in heaven's name doesn't he speak up? Perhaps he just doesn't possess the personal "tools to do the job."
A number of people, including myself, have offered to help the Supervisor time and time again, but we have been told to keep quiet unless they agree with him 100 percent on every issue. Clearly that is not the American way to govern.
* Why doesn't Mr. Langley submit substantive articles to the Advertiser?
* Why does Mr. Langley continue to silently hide behind Mr.Defruscio, Mr. Mulvey and Mr.Gilbert?
* Why doesn't Mr Langley allow questions at TB meetings?
* Why does Mr. Langley continue to order these Special Town Board meetings at times that are inconvenient for interested residents to attend?
In short, Keith Langley needs to start speaking out and Keith Langley needs to begin to encourage open and constructive discussion if he wants to accomplish anything of substance during his term of office.
For Pete's sake Mr.Langley, I hope you are prepared to, at the very least, say something or even anything at Monday's special meeting... a special meeting that by the way you set the time and date for...
The residents of EG deserve no less.
If for whatever reason you refuse to comment then you are even worse then the members of the Board Majority because your silence means that you callously sold your supporters in November a bogus bill of goods just so you could get elected.
Sorry for the venting, but my frustration level with Mr. Langley has reached an all time high!!!
God Bless America on our Day of Independence!
Dear Anon 9:10,
DeleteI would love to get with the program. I had high hopes for Mr. Langley. Please ask him to explain "the Program", or maybe you can. I have not seen the positive things you speak about.
I want MOM out but I do not want them replaced with a tool. I want candidates that can and will support open government all day, every day.
GOPer 10:22 AM-
DeleteI find it very curious that Supervisor Langley is the one responsible for the setting of the times and dates of these "Special" Town Board meetings.
Just wondering why he would do that?
What's with Langley and his special meetings program? Don't they already have a schedule for town board meetings?
DeleteWhat's this all about? Something seems fishy about this.
If you go to the Sewer and Authority web site you can read all the requests for payment, all about the bonding back in 2008, all the great plans to bring us up to date, the inter municipal agreement that was to take place between EG, Rensselaer and the County so that our poop got treated instead of flushed into the river... You can read about how much we've paid to get this connection to the County Sewer District No. 1 up and running, but you won't find much of anything about expanding our own capacity, borrowing more money, or raising taxes/fees. You will see the payment requisitions from Water and Sewer Professional Engineer Consultant LaBarba totaling about $151,116.60 since 2010 for water and sewer services at the Cross St. Pump Station, and for sewage fixes here in town. Not much about expansion of our own system. That will be more fees, I suppose. In his 10/4/11 Status Report to the Authority he states that meetings with the County Sewer District are in a "stale state," and that there is a "lack of motivation on the County's part to push this project toward finalization of the inter municipal agreement." What doesn't the County like about our offer? I have heard it said that it is the 5 million gallon per day capacity we are seeking, for future growth. That may be the sticking point. We have already spent huge sums of money to develop a connection with the County, and now we are about to jump ship and go deeper into debt? Crazy. Throughout the 2010-2012 period on the web you will also read the requisition requests for payment of about $62,116.58 for legal counsel on the various projects, payable to Whiteman, Osterman and Hanna, LLP. The Authority legal counsel is Philip Dixon, a partner at Whiteman. I suppose there will be extensive new legal fees if we expand rather than go with what we have already paid for in terms of connecting to the County. We have thrown money at this thing in a reckless manner. Did you know that there was not even a procurement policy or code of ethics in place until March of last year? A few people and companies you may never have heard of have been making an awful lot of money on this last round of bonding. The rest of us may end up losing an awful lot more. Dwight Jenkins
ReplyDeleteDwight: LaBarba also gets paid from the Town. It would be interesting to know how much he got from the Town over the same period. It does not seem right that he gets paid from both my county and my town taxes.
DeleteDear: Diogenes July 3, 2012 7:09 PM. You state that "Keith always wants to hear what people have to say. He is a great leader. Maybe he is coordinating this with Bill Lambdin. I wouldn't put it beyond Keith. He is a man who is always two steps ahead of everyone else."
ReplyDeleteI would say if he wants to hear what people have to say, why hasn't he returned an e-mail I sent him about 3 or 4 weeks ago? Also if he is always two steps ahead of everyone as you state then why did he let my new neighbor move into the neighborhood?
I'm not bashing Langley just stating fact, hell I even campaigned for the man. My point is that he isn't God as you would have us believe. I still support the man and realize he has lots of issues on his plate, but I find it harder and harder to do, especially when the man can't be bothered to send me a reply to my e-mail.
Dwight, I like the idea of a class action lawsuit, let me know where and when to sign?
ReplyDeleteWell, I'd like to think that if he is getting paid from the Town it is for other things, or maybe just day to day operations. I think that would be fine. As a PE with a valid license he can do more than just sewer stuff, I'm sure. Then again, the only way to know for sure is to FOIL the documentation for 2010-2012. Whose turn is it?
ReplyDeleteDwight
He Old timer you have to understand people that get into politics. They never take advice from anyone.This guy Langley is on a power trip like most politicans.The good politicans which I have not seen around this town in many years would listen and accept help. Between both parties in this town and all of the bickering this town is in trouble,the new dude that took over Laura s job cant even get the payroll right.I can just imagine what else he will screw up. I hope the comptrollers office will take over the towns operation becuse these people are incompetent.
ReplyDeleteYour not kidding about incompetent. Just look at MOM and the ethics code.
DeleteThat goes to show the town who they are looking out for, doesn't it?
Lets be fair here. Or does anyone know really how to do that amymore these days.
MOM has so much power and they are not about to let it go to anyone. They went so far as to do a double standard. Let's look at old Ginny. I will refresh your memory a bit. Look, Remember when Mike and Phil were asking to be put back on the town board. Ginny gave a lame excuse to why and then when asked about her decision, she said it was a conflict. If you beleive any of that nonsense. She was just lucky enough to not get caught. She was not about to let them two back on the board. Then the ethics code.. the code to cover there butts and keep their family and friends in jobs that we all know we all don't need. So if you think that Langley is on a power trip. I think you are mistaken. He is just doing what he feels is right for the town and trying to get things done.
Show me were he is high on power. Cause I have to tell you, he really has his hands tied right now.
Jim Cozzy July 4, 2012 1:14 PM--your experience is not unlike many others. Then again, he does not respond to a reporter's interview request (Bill Lambdin) nor does he answer questions or address the issue when faced with the microphone. Being frightened by the majority is not the answer. Working with and responding to the residents is the answer.
ReplyDeleteHe is in the minority however, Suzanne Aiardo is correct. Supervisor Langley can vote NO and show he doe snot agree with the majority on certain issues such as the judgeship appointment. I disagree with the Gadfly stating he should not put forth his own appointment for the simple reason that if you are disagreeing with someone/group that's fine but give your resolution and solution to the issue. Saying, "no" with no solution or suggestion is counter productive and appears to be argumentative just to be argumentative.
The sewer situation--per Bill Lambdin Tuesday night he stated neither party wanted to work with the County. If that is not true than Langley should issue a statement and speak with Bill Lambdin.
Dear Gigi 8:46 AM
ReplyDeleteIf Langley isn't going to respond to anyone about any issue than perhaps he should look for another job.
As a former supporter of his, I am sorry to say that I am now convinced that he should begin looking at an exit strategy for himself.
Langley has missed a great opportunity to serve as a strong alternative to the failed policies of the Majority Board. He is now perceived through out the town and county as clueless, ineffective and mean spirited and as someone to avoid and go around if things need to be done.
Langley has created a vacuum in the town government that is being rapidly filled by a collection of self interested people who have exhibited little concern for the needs of the town and great concern for the needs of themselves.
Unfortunately, to this point in his administration, Mr. Langley has fallen into the strategy of the majority. Their purpose early on, beginning before he took office, was to act to compromise his ability to function. An example is the move to cut his salary and the salary of his secretary. The purpose of the majority has always been to "rattle" him enough so that he will quit and allow them to appoint Ms. O'Brien as Supervisor and then her replacement on the Board.
ReplyDeleteMr. Langley has yet to formulate a strong strategy to oppose this destructive activity on the part of the majority. He apparently does not understand the authority which comes with his office, and he has not reached out to those best equipped to help him - both locally and in the State's oversight resources.
There is plenty of evidence out there which indicates that the machine which has run this Town in recent years is guilty of profound self-serving mismanagement. Mr. Langley needs to hang this around their collective neck and move forward with an aggressive plan.
10:51 AM:
DeleteI don't think the O'Brien strategy as you outline it would work, although I could be wrong about this.
Here's how I read it;
First- A Langley resignation would bring the Board down to 4 voting members, meaning that a majority of 3 would be required to appoint a new Supervisor.
2nd-O'Brien would have to abstain, leaving only Mangold, Malone and Matters to vote up or down.
3rd- Assuming BOTH Mangold and Malone voted for O'Brien (not a slam dunk from what I'm hearing), Matters would need to cast the 3rd vote for O'Brien to make her the new Supervisor.
I could be wrong about this, please feel free to correct.
If you are right, the majority would just find somebody to "stoodge" for them until a special election.
Delete1021- perfectly stated ! Way too many people looking out for themselves . I'll make just one other observation: Langley must stop relying on Chris Defruscio for advice or friendship. Just an observation.
ReplyDelete"The world will not be destroyed by those who do evil, but by those who watch them without doing anything." -Albert Einstein
ReplyDeleteI see it this way, "Our town will not be destroyed............" Supervisors, Council persons, planning board members, engineers, everyone needs to be held accountable here. This town is incapable/unwilling to police itself. We are in a great dire need of help here.
Bill Lambdin should be give all the documentation possible, concerning the goings on in our town, both past and present. We need all the media attention we can get. Go for it Gadfly, I'm on board. If there is nothing to hide, the powers at being should have nothing to fuss about, right.
Gadflies, keep swarming around their...
Dear Anonymous 10:51 AM
ReplyDeleteRighto...
Please be aware that a number of us have met on a number of occasions with Mr. Langley and his advisers to provide them with support on a number of different fronts-- to no avail.
Mr.Langley and his advisers, specifically Mr. Defruscio, Mr. Mulvey and Mr. Gilbert, informed us that they were well along in the process of implementing their own confidential step by step plan (unspecified). They then told us, in no uncertain terms, that they could only share the plan with us on the condition that we agreed to support it (sight unseen) 100 percent.
This is the type of narrow minded and magical thinking that has put the Langley "administration" in its current pickle. They are a self-selected narrowly focused group that is not comfortable with open communication and constructive dialogue with people that do not agree to agree with them 100 percent of the time.
So you have met on several occasions. When you going to bring the towns people who will be paying for this crap to be fixed in on what the meetings are about??
DeleteIt almost appears that you can't beat this system.
This Super seems to be doing the same dance as McCabe.
Just goes under a different name.
I don't know about anyone else but I don't feel that Gilbert is a right match for us.
Gilbert to be making decisions for the town.
Now that is very scary.
Anonymous 6:51 PM
DeleteI think you are right and I think that Langley and Gilbert don't want to meet with any towns people who don't always agree with them.
Just an update on an additional aspect of our poop problems: dumping it on the ground accidentally when the pumps fail at the various pumping stations. From the Rensselaer Co. water and Sewer Authority Status Report of 6/12/12, filed by engineer LaBarba, we see that EG has 4 sewage pump stations causing problems: Commons, Hideaway (where it is flowing into the nearby stream), Corliss Park, and HANYS' on Empire Drive, down by the doctors' offices. From the report: Pump Station rehabilitation is one of the sewer bond's major items. "This segment of work will also become critical since it will in effect reduce sewer overflows, another DEC mandated issue." So not only have we been dumping it in the Hudson, we have been dumping it on the ground. Of course, the Hideaway station is set down low, by the stream above Genet. That ends up in the river. From the report again: over the past years the HANY's station has been overloaded with high flow rates and the pumps at times cannot handle the influential. SEWAGE HAS SPILLED ON THE GROUND. From the Authority meeting of 6/13/12: the Authority has determined that there is an urgent need for replacement of sewer pumps and related infrastructure...there is an urgent need for pumps with greater capacity, upgraded controls, valves and related equipment to avoid potential overflows. The Authority bought the pumps from Shrier-Martin Process Equipment for $15,736 and paid J.P. Industrial $18,150 to install them. Why so urgent? The EG Police Blotter shows Public Health Alarms at HANY's on 4/29/12, 5/18/12, 5/28/12, and 5/31/12! Corliss dumped enough for the Police to show on 5/28/12 also. Seems that the money we once had as excess in the sewer funds should have been used to repair these items as they came up instead of borrowing heavily for them and then paying interest for decades... Dwight Jenkins
ReplyDeleteDwight....the "excuse" that the majority is floating for the missing sewer fund revenues is that these funds were "spent within the accounts of the Town" - as if that makes it OK. No understanding at all of the calamity caused by ignoring the interfund borrowing rules in the General Municipal Law. The money not used in the lawful place leads to pollution, debt, Junk bonds and a bigger problem to be solved. And this bunch wants the community to allow it to craft the solution on this issue and visit more mischief on us for their own benefit. Good grief!!
ReplyDeleteMom is going to justify it anyway they can to make it sound good.
DeleteAnonymous 6:52 PM
DeleteMake that MOM plus Langley, Gilbert, Defruscio and Mulvey. I don't think MOM can do it on their own. They also need the cooperation of Langley and his stooges to make it sound good.
I'll be listening.
If Langley and Gilbert are already cooperating that explains why they have been so quiet.
DeleteGilbert used to speak out on a lot of things. He's as quiet as a Langley now.
Hush, Hush sweet Deputy?
And here's the "substantive" answer from a majority "shill" to the above two statements:
ReplyDelete"Dwight you need to get a job. Donnie , Lord knows what you need."
No further need to wonder why the Town is in trouble.
Sure Dwight, they want you to "get a job", so you will stop probing into their monkey business. Gadfly, the good Lord knew we needed you to help expose along with Dwight, the unthinkable consequences that are happening, because a bunch of people can't or won't do things right in this town.
ReplyDeleteAn intelligent response to the current poop debacle, from the Dem. employees of the town, and their supporters would be greatly appreciated.
The good Lord knows knows what this town needs. I believe those who need to hear the Lord's voice, are turning a deaf ear. As Dwight made reference to on another blog, first get the beam out of your own eye, before you attempt to take the speck out of the eye of someone else (paraphrased).
The ruling majority in this town over the years, gets a "D" for Deafness, Defiance, Dysfunctional management, Delayed audits, DEBT, Dumping poop, Destructive consequences to our community and others, and DEC fines, Dam lakes no one can swim in......etc.
So, I guess it must be the family and friend jobs, salaries, pensions, perks, power, etc., that make the attackers so happy.
Light a match, light a candle.
I'd still like to know where the heck Langley is with all of this. Is he planning on saying anything at all? He had a lot to say when he was looking for our votes last election.
DeleteDear Gadfly! Just a heads up so you know where comments are coming from, check out the comments on Talks. Timmy should be none other than our deputy Chief Condo. He talks about the people "upstairs", so it can only be a cop and he's the one who started the blog. There's your brain trust for you, he lacks the courage to sign his name or be upfront about his own stupidity and then puts it out there for all to see. You might want to check to see if the good deputy is blogging on town time. What a group!
ReplyDeleteShould be/could be. Are you sure? Alot of people have been blamed on both sides with little or no proof. Not defending any slander of anyone from either side but I would be really interested in stopping the blame game and trying to forge ahead somewhat together towards a common goal. Probably wishful thinking on my part.
DeleteAnonymous 5:02
DeleteI'm not sure why you didn't use your name. Your comment while being short is very accurate. Why is it so hard for people to show respect for each other? We should at least try to work together for the common good.
Everyone should stop rehashing the past we-all know there were problems. Do we want to move forward or forever live in the past? To forge ahead would be a great way to go. More people like you need to speak out about ending the negativety and, as you put it, stopping the blame game.
Dwight, your right, people should stand by what they say and not be afraid to sign their name. If someone feels strong enough to say it,own it.
They gave a gun and a badge to Timmy? Hope this is a case of mistaken identity. If not, it's downright scary - there's a lotta hate in that dude's wretched writings.
DeleteFrom July 5, 7:19 AM:
ReplyDeleteEffort? They are doing NOTHING but dirtying up the water! What exactly is the agenda of ANY of them? It clearly isn't the streamlining of Town Government or inter-party cooperation....otherwise there would be no B-S like the appointment of Mulvey or Eileen Grant upstairs - those two are like pouring salt in an open wound !
Get a job? I have 2! One during the day and the other at night, researching the madness around here. And believe it or not, I get PAID for both! See if you can find the night job payments. You'll have to look carefully though, or you'll miss it. Having people in the right positions is finally $$$ing off for me. I got at least 3 good years ahead of me... Dwight
ReplyDeleteOne other thing, "Get a job:" I know you won't believe this, but my own voice and a couple of the other loud ones is directed at just one thing- open, honest government, regardless of party. You always seem to forget or ignore that. I don't think the current administration likes me any more than the last one. Since we have no newspaper in town it falls upon regular people to dig around and report on what's happening. God knows YOU ain't gonna do it! Past years' conversations with local leaders never revolved around issues, but rather personalities, or failures in ones private life. Some still come to mind: She hasn't been with him in years; he's a thief- lost every job he ever had; he doesn't know what's about to hit him; he's just mad because he lost that lawsuit; it's all about the jobs; they've been spreading lies about the town so we had to call the boss; it's always been done that way; everybody does it; we're talking about a very little bit of money for extra work, that's all... On and on. The responses imply an intelligence network worthy of totalitarian regimes. Not many people have access to such resources. It's a shame the effort wasn't put into sound governing, shadowy cowardly, nameless one. Give Joe LaMountain and Pete Stenson some credit- at least they're willing to sign their names. Dwight
ReplyDeleteTime to take a look at Stockton, California. Stockton is filing for bankruptcy. The reason…..a 15 year spending binge on salaries and benefits for the city’s workforce. This bankruptcy will have a disastrous result for city workers and retirees. Let’s take a quick look at Stockton’s debt. It’s $26 million. The population of Stockton is 300,000. This computes to a debt per resident of $86.66.
ReplyDeleteNow how does East Greenbush compare? Look at this Town’s recent spending and Internal Control “leaks.”
--- $500,000 for a retirement incentive for which the legally required savings have not been documented.
--- $147,000 that we know of in stipends.
--- A $250,000 contract addition for a “sick leave incentive” without the approval of the Board. Remember “what are you going to do about it?”
--- UHY’s finding of “unauthorized disbursements to certain individuals.”
--- Lost scrap revenues.
--- Employee benefits made available to ineligible persons.
--- Pension padding.
--- $500,000 to Bruen annually as a sole source contractor (contrary to the Town’s procurement policy) without the Ambulance District ever requiring an audit of Bruen – EVER, over how many years???
--- Patronage hiring without a workload analysis or justification.
--- No recovery plan for the interfund borrowing debt as recommended by OSC in 2008
--- ETC, ETC, ETC.
Without an independent audit since 2009, let’s estimate the East Greenbush debt at $2.1 million. With 17,000 residents, that’s a per capita debt of $123.53!!
When the first Finance Committee got close to these issues in its work in an effort to look for spending reductions, it was disbanded. The last production of the new CFAC was a “justification” for additional spending and a tax increase in the 2012 budget.
Funding much of the largesse was unlawful interfund borrowing which was hidden from the taxpayer. Interfund loans are to help manage cash flow within a single fiscal year. In EG they were used for unbudgeted spending, according to OSC. EG Talks has even come up with the lame excuse that the interfund borrowing was not theft in that it was spent within the accounts of the Town. Fact is, it was transferred to cover spending which was (for the most part) secret.
The majority machine has produced $123 per capita debt, no recovery plan, no management capability, no fiscal restraint and Junk bond ratings for the Town.
Now, without showing the ability to manage the sewer operation over the last 13 years, even with excess revenues of $2.5 million and the County bonding in 2008 of $6,555,000, the majority wants to saddle the population with additional bond debt to increase capacity and manage the new arrangement on its own – no doubt with the same cast of characters at the helm.
Come on Mr. Langley, get out front on this and nail them! The majority has given you every reason for them to be discredited. There is no BEEF, only PORK.
A lot of people bitched about McCabe not producing a recovery plan and not being able to manage as the CFO and CEO ot the town. NOW taht Langleys in office it's the board majority's job and not the Sup.
DeleteWhich way is the wind blowin?
okay folks i'm getting a little pissed off. the problem is NOT langley or his "stooges" the problem is MOM you may not like or agree with how the supervisor is handling the issues but you have to understand he is outgunned. You want him to implement the changes that are best for the town then you have to help him get a majority in the next election in 2013. Tearing him down calling those around him Stooges only helps those currently in power stay in power. I really don't get this blunderbuss attack mode everyone seems to be in.
ReplyDeleteI'd say that if Mr. wants the community to give him a majority in 2013, he needs to be out there with an articulated program that he is trying to implement so that what the majority is blocking becomes VERY clear. What's his position - as an alternative to the agenda of the majority - on the sewer issue, for example. So far he's sent LaBarba and Benko out to interface with the Press. And I think it would be fair to say that these two gentlemen carry the water for the majority, wouldn't you say? Mr. Langley declined an interview with Mr. Lambdin, and hasn't made any public statement whatsoever as to what his position is on the solution to the sewer issue. There are two clear options out there. We know what the Dem majority wants - business as usual with a big bond issue and fees. Is Mr. Langley in favor of the much less expensive and QUICKER solution of connecting with the County system? Or is he caving to the wishes of the Dems? Nobody knows!! If he wants a majority, he needs to lead and develop a record to be supported.
DeleteDear 11:29 PM,
DeleteI hope you and Keith Langley might be informed by the Urban Dictionary definition of "stooge"...
"Someone who is used by others to get what they want, a clown, a follower."
Joe L, this isn't my blog but it it is very nice to see you posting comments here. The past is important in this town only because, unlike the Hatfields and McCoys, many of the same mistakes from by- gone days remain with us today, and we are still paying for them. I don't think we can fix the town with the same names from the past. I couldn't care less if that means Democrat, which I am, or Republican, or anything in-between. Things need to be done right for the right reasons. We can't understand current reasoning without understanding past action. Unfortunately, when you're dealing with other people's money, that sometimes means accountability- owning it. That's why the past still plays a prominent role on the blog(s). Going forward with a clean slate and a clear understanding of how we got here would be ideal. Telling me to take my happy pills and get a job is about as low as it gets, though we have seen it get lower...in the past. Keep writing, you're interesting to read and an important voice. Dwight
ReplyDeleteJoe, How come you never give that same little lecture on the "Anonymous" Talks Blog ... your dear anonymous friends! Why is it always here? What about the constant stream of hate being spewed over there?
ReplyDeleteAnti-Timmy...it's pretty obvious that my comments are meant for both groups. If I put my comments on the Talks blog I would be accused of favoring that blog. If I put my comments here, I'm told I should put them over on Talks. Hard to win...
DeleteI also wasn't trying to lecture anyone, just expressing my views. I was also hoping others felt the way I do and thought it was time for a reasonable dialogue to start between both groups..time to work together for the benefit of all. I recently read on a bumber sticker:
"Embracing our differences makes us all stronger"...makes sense to me.
To Joe LaMountain 9:44 PM:
DeleteAgreed ...makes sense to me as well.
Thanks for the terrific post!
See you at the transfer station next week.
Stay hydrated,
Tom
The Bile Barf Blog herd are railing against Langley and his lack of hours in Town Hall. That is a legitimate issue - if true. Big "if" coming from that crowd. Maybe they'll actually do some work: FOIL, investigate and document in order to back up their currently unsubstantiated claims. Maybe they will really want to get to the truth of the matter rather than simply leaving it hanging as just a run of the mill smear.
ReplyDeleteWhile they're at it, maybe they can also explain how, as they claim, the former Supe was in his office all of the time yet still was able to rack up $10,000 in secret mileage reimbursements (undocumented of course; paid even though he was on the record as never having received such mileage reimbursement). Awfully selective that bunch.
I say that all of these office holders ought to be held accountable - Dem & Rep. If they are taking advantage of us, go ahead and expose them. Back it up though. It's clear the Gadfly and his posse do just that.
Dear Joe:
ReplyDeleteAs I am sure you know I am on the receiving end of comments on the Talks blog regularly.
On many occasions I have tried to respond responsibly. I have invited those anonymous bloggers on that anonymous blog to meet and discuss any number of issues.
For whatever reason the anonymous administrators of that blog refuse to post my responses and comments.
The invitation to meet and discuss issues associated with making our town better is always open.
I often read but rarely post on both blogs. I read for the purpose of learning more about the points of view held by other citizens in our community. I particularly appreciate the postings of the people who provide sound research and have the courage to sign their names.
ReplyDeleteLike Joe and Tom I agree that civil discourse would be a great improvement. Like Ray I have been the subject of attempted bullying. I don't understand the motivation of the person or people ridicule and name call in an anonymous post with no substance in their statement.
What if we had an informal get-together at the Town Park or Hampton Manor to discuss ways in which to move forward realistically? Lay down some ground rules in advance (no yelling,no name calling, no baseless accusations- simply facts) and then we can discuss those facts and perhaps determine a reasonable course of action? If the Queen of England can bring herself to go to Ireland and shake hands with one of the resistance movement's bloodiest (in the past) militants, surely those of us here in East Greenbush can do the same? All would be welcome, regardless of where they stand politically, be they politicians, staffers, or just concerned citizens. Joe, I'm quite sure the Gadfly's could round up 3 or 4 folks willing to do so. How about on your side? Dwight
ReplyDeleteDwight 12:35 PM:
DeleteTerrific idea!
Count me in.
Be well,
Tom
We're up to two, Tom and me. That's a good start. More? Dwight
ReplyDeleteI'll be there.
ReplyDelete3. The movement grows.... Dwight
ReplyDeleteDwight:
ReplyDeleteI'm in.
4. Unstoppable.
ReplyDeleteRr right on The same group of assholes. Now there's progress
ReplyDeleteJoe. L, you make a call for civility. Dwight started the move in the right direction, and the response is A**holes. There are people here that are willing to step up to the plate, and meet and talk openly, about EG problems with town Democrats. Will you and three or more others take the olive branch and accept a meeting?
ReplyDeleteLet the progress begin.
Waddaya say Joe? I think we both know that neither I nor any of those that said they'd meet are assholes. At least not all the time. I am willing to turn my assholeness into plowshares if it will help the process along. Dwight
ReplyDeleteDwight,
ReplyDeleteAnonymous 6:51's comment about "the same group of assholes"...I'm not sure if the comment is directed at the Dems or you guys...who's the assholes?
As far as meeting, I personally would be willing. However, I am not in a position of power by any means and cannot pretend to speak for anyone other than myself. An open discussion about issues facing our town and possible solutions is a good thing. We need to leave the blame game and demands off the table and find some common ground to move this town forward for the benefit of all.
We need to build trust one step at a time.
Joe, just do what I did: extend the offer to some of your friends that are willing to talk. No one has LESS power than me, politically, but in a case like this that means nothing. I like your perspective on "who are the assholes!" I hadn't thought of it that way. See? All the more reason to meet. Dwight
ReplyDeleteLet me get this straight,Joe. The group that libeled, slandered and defamed numerous citizens plus elected officials now want to tell you what's wrong with the democratic party. Seriously how demented are they. They think their all smart enough to play you and anybody else. Don't give them the time of day
ReplyDeleteSpecial Town Board meeting tonight focusing on feces in one form or another: the town is pursuing grant money to fix up the Town Park bathrooms; the Town is pursuing grant money to identify the source of the Town Park pollution problem (hint: go to the stream where Best-Luther Rd meets Best Rd, and look up to the east, to the high ground. That's where the County's water quality test results seem to point to. There is an old landfill up there. I was told there was a cattle farm in the area too, but I can't recall ever seeing cows around there...); and then we had the crux of the meeting: "A resolution authorizing the town consulting engineer (which one, we have several?) to submit the non-final inter-agency waste water treatment plan to the New York State Dept of Environmental Conservation in anticipation of the resolution of pending litigation (is that the word you really wanted?) arising out of the Consent Order dated May 17, 2012." Pretty convoluted statement for a resolution for which the board went off in secret for a half hour or so, leaving us in the dark. Then they returned and adjourned, so we still have no idea what that non-final plan looks like. The one we'll all be paying for because the town engineers and politicians of previous years decided it wasn't prudent to fix the problem at the time. But why bother? DEC, located right across the river, wasn't worried, so why should we be? Well, maybe now it's time to be worried. Dwight
ReplyDeleteFrom what I was able to glean from post - meeting conversation, there is no "litigation," but an "administrative action." This, according to Counsel (Mr. Liccardi), is supposed to protect the information from FOIL.
ReplyDeleteIn my view, it is just not acceptable that the people who will be asked to carry the financial load of this "non-final plan" are totally in the dark as to what it contains. Why are we not advised of the alternatives and the costs involved???? Very paternalistic, I'd say. From what I've been able to discern, the engineers sponsoring the solution are those who have had influence during the 13 years which created the problem in the first place. Why can't we ask questions in some appropriate forum about that???
This issues is so loaded with political considerations that is just cries out for public airing and discussion. The people with the taxpaying wallets have been excluded to this point, and this should disturb Dems and Reps alike.
Anonymous 9:26 PM:
ReplyDeleteWow, "libeled, slandered and defamed"! Love your eloquent turn of verse.
Could you give just meeting and speaking in a business like manner about the various waste treatment options and the pros and cons of those?
Can you agree to Dwight's suggested terms of no name calling, no shouting, facts as the basis for arguments, etc.?
Or do you prefer a return to the "Miss Giggle Giggle Boom Boom" era of Talks comments about a female member of our community?
Don the representives were elected to handle these issues. When they have a plan they will bring it to public for comment. What you and others are crying out for is to insert yourself in the part of the process (analysis and development of a plan) where you don't belong. Like you have pointed out there are basically two solutions ( bypass or expansion) I think if they need your expertise in either of these two matters they will ask you
ReplyDeleteDear Fairly certain.....I strongly disagree with your point of view. The people "elected to handle these issues" royally screwed them up BIG TIME over the last 13 years exactly because the public was not aware of what was going on. Open and transparent government is anathema to the kind of people who made this very costly mess. They left us with a much bigger bill and a much more complex problem.
ReplyDeleteI'd suggest that the process going on right now - with the "SECRET PLAN" going to DEC is simply a ruse to get the majority's preferred approach "approved" by DEC to the exclusion of any other before any other plan (like the less costly and faster alternative) gets to be looked at by DEC.
The majority's "political lifestyle" is riding on the resolution of these sewer issues, and they will fight to keep a situation which mirrors the status quo.
(There is also a parallel with the Ethics Code. The majority's "political lifestyle" requires the removal of financial disclosure and nepotism from the Ethics Board's draft, and they will act to keep a local law which mirrors the status quo.)
The people who pay the bills have too long been absent from analysis and development of plans by so-called "adequately skilled" elected officials. The "experts" with fingerprints on what has happened over the last 13 years made out quite well financially without addressing the presented problems. That should raise questions for all taxpayers - regardless of Party.
Dear Gadfly 2:46 PM:
DeleteDo you think the majority in the sewer and ethics issues is limited to O'Brien, Mangold and Malone? Many are curious on how Supervisor Langley stands on these issues as well.
I have absolutely NO IDEA where the Supervisor stands on these issues. This is one of the reasons that all the secrecy is frustrating. Mr. Lambdin said that the Supervisor had refused an interview and had sent the engineers out to interface with the Press. From what I am hearing from very reliable sources, the majority is pushing really hard for its preferred alternative, but we have no idea whether any alternatives which may be more viable and preferable are getting any airing or advocacy at all.
DeleteIf this is the case if explains the "cone of silence." Because he has chosen to have an extremely small "inner circle," it may be that alternatives may not be vigorously well vetted.
On ethics, I haven't a clue about the Supervisor. From the discussion I heard at the Ethics Board meeting last night, I think there is a real question as to whether ANY (except perhaps one) member of the Town Board really UNDERSTANDS what is in the original Ethics Board's draft submitted to the Board. Folks, this is a real question. Of course, the alternative is that at least the majority actually does know what is in that draft and this is the reason for such adamant opposition to it. I think they want "business as usual" in East Greenbush.
This is very interesting and maybe something we should be reviewing:
ReplyDeletehttp://video.foxnews.com/v/1729067595001/scranton-employees-sue-mayor-for-slashing-pay/
Slashing employee wages to minimum is interesting to note. This is not about agreeing/disagreeing with the philosophy behind it. I submitted this to review the methodology behind it. There ARE municipalities looking to cut the payroll; albeit this is extreme BUT the point is, it is an option muni's are considering across the country. Why can't EG do that...in a much smarter way.
Between the sewage polluting our town's water and land, which by the way, it is amazing our deer do not have 3 heads, the squirrels have 6 tails, the birds have 3 beaks, etc, and the financial hurricane storming the town bank accounts it is clear new options need to be considered because the old way is not working. Getting together, as Joe LaMountain and Dwight suggest is great but they are not the decision makers. If the meeting consisted of Town Council members then progress may be possible.
The problem GG is that the Mayor evidently is violating union contracts.
Delete"The fiscal and political crisis in nearly-broke northeastern Pennsylvania city of Scranton was expected to deepen Tuesday as public employee unions said they would seek to hold the mayor in contempt of court after he defied a judge and slashed workers’ pay to minimum wage."
http://www.bostonherald.com/news/national/northeast/view/20120710scranton_pa_mayor_cuts_city_workers_pay_to_minimum_wage/srvc=home&position=recent
Sorry don but your analysis of the current situation has a major flaw. Keith Langley was not ever part of the administration that is/was responsible for the sewer mess. He is however the current supervisor and is working on the issue. Again if he or the others needs your help I am sure they will ask for it. By the way you seem already convinced that the bypass is the way to move forward what makes you so sure.
ReplyDeleteI'm not advocating a particular solution, however I do know that one particular solution IS being advocated by the majority - very vigorously. And this should give us all pause because of the civics lesson articulated my Mr. Malone at the last Board meeting - "we are the majority, and what we want passes." Things like this happen without thorough vetting when things are done in secret without the "testing" which is supplied by public knowledge.
DeleteYour last sentence is very telling. What I've been advocating all along - before a plan goes to any oversight agency - is an open airing of the alternatives, costs, timelines, pros and cons. What is developing is a "done deal" before the alternatives and their pluses and minuses have been presented to the people who will live with them for a long time and pay for them for a long time.
This is a struggle between open, transparent and accountable government and the government behind closed doors and under the radar which has continually produced less than desirable outcomes in the past.
Fairly Certain- I think it's fairly certain that the taxpayers probably won't have much of a say no matter how the solution goes down. This is unfortunate, in a time of open government. I don't know if you were there for yesterday's meeting but it was actually funny to see a couple of simple resolutions go forward simply, and then whole board just gets up and leaves while the Town Clerk takes the American Flags off with her! They weren't in any danger! So we wait, wait, wait, talk about bears, talk with Carmella Mantello some, talk about funny work stories while we kill time, and then they all come back and adjourn the meeting! Truth is, they probably did not have to go into executive session, if I read the State Open Government documents correctly. They were allowed to do it if it was actually pending litigation, but they didn't HAVE to. They chose to. That tells me something. Why not just hash it out openly, like on C-SPAN? If the taxpayers get screwed on this I believe a number of us will try to make life as uncomfortable as possible, politically, for our elected officials, regardless of party. No, I don't know anything about either solution, so you see it would be nice to know, wouldn't it? It's your money too. Are you happy with our financial situation? We still don't have a 2011 Annual Report filed from what I was told yesterday. It was due in April, which is when we finally filed our 2010 Annual Report! Again, you're happy with the way the experts handle things? Really? Dwight * sign your name. You'll have more credibility.
ReplyDeleteI am not entirely happy with the way everything is going but the continual demand for public vetting of every step of every process is not productive. I personally think that if what is suggested here were brought to bear the continual influx of opposing ideas and political banter would bring any progress to screeching halt. I would suspect that if the Majority tries to put forth a solution that is not in the best interest of the town, Langley,Matters,Gilbert and others will have no problem making their transgressions public. But we need to give them room to work. As has been publicly pointed out many times the majority can shove whatever they want down our throat so explain to me what the continual review by the public does except slow the process down. My personal opinion is we will have plenty of time to weigh in on a proposal once the proposal is ready.
ReplyDeleteI am fairly certain that neither I nor Don nor anyone else commenting about it has slowed ANYTHING down. Nobody listens to us anyway. That doesn't relieve us of an obligation to look into what happened and why, and what COULD happen and how. To suggest otherwise is to suggest a move away from basic republican democracy. I can think of no reason why that meeting had to be held in executive session except to avoid embarrassing revelations. Have I slowed the process by stating that? Nope. Could I have slowed it by e-mailing the Commissioner of DEC last night and giving him a piece of my mind? Perhaps, but I doubt it. I hope so. The rush is on to get a fix in place so that the building moratorium we're under will be lifted. Most good decisions are not made in haste, but after careful, thoughtful deliberation. Don't forget, the last two years of sewer bond spending have not really revolved around expansion of existing facilities, at least not as I read the Water/Sewer Authority requisitions. It seems they have revolved around a joint agreement with the County and with the Troy Sewer District. If we don't go that way we just squandered a bucket load of cash, for which we'll be paying for many, many years. Yes? Dwight
ReplyDeleteActually Dwight what I'm suggesting is right in line with a republican democracy we elected the leadership we need to let them lead. It seems to me that what Don and others are trying to do is to insert themselves in a leadership roll where they really don't belong.
DeleteActually Fairly, it's a "gadfly" role to keep and eye on and question the leadership. This is an essential role in a democracy. It is particularly important in EG, where the "press" visits once a generation. Leadership doesn't like to be questioned because such activities sometimes show that the course followed may not be the most sensible or even legal.
DeleteFor example, had the public been informed (before OSC pointed it out in 2008) that elected leadership had been borrowing from the sewer/water fund and spending the money in the general fund, chances are that we wouldn't have junk bonds and a $2.1 million debt. Elected leadership on its own in this one really screwed up, didn't it???
Here's one you can take the time to look into. I was told by someone who should know that the line item Ms. Ingoldsby was installed in last week at $40K didn't previously exist. Ms. Hicks took the line with her. It may be that one way or another, a new job got created at that Board meeting, and that materially false statements were made in the Resolution. I will not assert this as fact yet, but it certainly needs looking into, doesn't it?
I'd say, Fairly, that if you sit back and take a look at the performance of "elected leadership" over the past years, the public has not been well served at all. And it is only when those of us who have had the audacity to ask some questions, that elected leadership has reluctantly started to "try" to behave. I won't repeat the list. I'm sure you know it.
Gigi, I hope you don't have a problem with me re-post your comments from a previous blog heading.
ReplyDeleteI strongly disagree. If you are serving on the Board you should KNOW what fines the Town is paying to the DEC. Ask the comptroller to review, with you, the checks each month. If you want to sit up there, you own the responsibility of where our tax dollars go each month. I am TIRED of hearing, "I didn't know..." Then WHY are you sitting there if you are not reviewing the money with the comptroller?
If you approved a tax increase than you should know where that money goes. The Dem majority was the "majority", and if you want to hang the full weight of the responsibility on their shoulders than you MUST include the Board members that were cross-endorsed by the Dems. My opinion differs from yours, it takes only ONE LEADER to take ownership of the responsibility that goes along with being a Board member and sit with the comptroller and review the checks and bank statements once a month. That's not that difficult to do. For the love of God, many times I would see Board members sitting around Town Hall just chatting and visiting...they should have been visiting the comptroller!
How dare they vote for a tax increase after paying those fines and THEN have the NERVE to say, "I didn't know". Look at the checks with the comptroller. Ignorance is no excuse! You approved a tax increase without paying attention to what the money paid for--shame on you!
I am a Conservative--a strict fiscal Conservative and even I am tired of hearing all the Dem bashing. They did not sit on that Board alone. One Board member could have been more mindful of the responsibility of being a Board member. They are each entrusted with our money. It's the same at the Federal level--President blames Congress, Congress blames President...STOP the MADNESS and if you would each pay attention and stop putting your faces and your wordy articles in the Advertiser maybe you would have the time to sit with the comptroller and pay attention to the money you you been elected to be the stewards of.
I wonder if there are any council persons who actually sit down with the Comptroller and go over where the money is being spent. Gigi, you have a good standing argument on this matter. I would hope Supervisor Langley is spending some time with the Comptroller going over the checks. Would that come under the heading of being the CFO? He did say he would entrench himself, in all aspects of the town's business.
Does the Supervisor have the authority to appoint another Town attorney and appoint new Town Engineers? Gigi, I wonder if they should be included in your rant too. Can't understand how the town dumped poop and payed fines without their knowledge.
I feel like we live in the town of MysteryVille. Light a match, burn a candle.
Dear Fairly Certain.....One of the things I learned across the river is that politicians soon forget that they are elected to represent the people and adopt the attitude that they are anointed, and have no responsibility to the people that put them in office - and that includes ALL the people after an election.
ReplyDeleteYou complain about "public vetting." Since "the past is prologue," I'd suggest that "public vetting" of just about everything Town government does is in order. Let me give you an example.
The inter-fund borrowing of $2.5 million which is at the heart of the sewer mess was illegal because the funds were not repaid at the end of the fiscal year in which they were borrowed. They were used to pay for unbudgeted disbursements in the general fund. This is a fact reported in an OSC review in 2008. When the report was made public, the then Supervisor stated in published writing that the OSC report did not contain any significant findings, and that the findings that it did contain had already been addressed. A year later the findings in that report were those which led Moody's to say that EG's bond rating was Junk.
The public trusted the elected representatives to know and follow the provisions of the General Municipal Law - they didn't. And the result is part of what we are dealing with. The past is prologue. We have discovered that our representatives often do not follow the interests of the people unless the people are looking (very literally) over their shoulders. Given past performance, we have every reason to be party to what is being put forth by ANY administration. The record without public oversight is not good. In fact it is miserable.
At the risk of being seen as "ad nauseam," I just had to point out that in reviewing 2010 to present Water/Sewer Authority documents, it is clear that the by-pass fix was the Authority's and Mr. LaBarba's preference. Why else would they award a contract worth $209,300 to CDM, out of Chicago, to design a plan for us to do just that? (see May 2012 status report from Mr. laBarba to the Authority.) Yes, there were other sewer improvements that needed to take place per price including pump station upgrades, inflow/infiltration upgrades, pump grinder upgrades, etc., but in none (that I could find) of the documents does one see our money, which we borrowed at interest, being used to price out what it would cost to improve our own system so that the Town maintained control of its own sewage. I think it would be instructive to see the cost comparison between the two plans. I was at the meeting several years ago in which Mr. LaBarba delivered a very professional, instructive Power Point presentation on the issues facing the Town re sewer and water. I don't believe public involvement or attendance at that meeting was an impediment to progress. But that was then. The general public did not know the full extent of the problems or political considerations of what the Town was entering into.
ReplyDeleteTo The First Observer July 10, 2012 8:15 PM:
ReplyDeleteThe Supervisor does not have the authority to appoint a new Town attorney or Town Engineers on his own. That is a Board decision and the majority rules at the Organizational Meeting held in January. Your statement, "I would hope Supervisor Langley is spending some time with the Comptroller going over the checks. Would that come under the heading of being the CFO? He did say he would entrench himself, in all aspects of the town's business."--on this point we are in agreement. It may seem a bit extreme and it may also seem to be a monotonous task but sharpening the pencil and combing through the checks is certainly an activity this Town should see happening from the Town's CFO. He is SALARIED which means he does not have a set 8:00--4:00 schedule. As every salaried person, especially those in management, knows salaried means being there usually beyond a 40 hr work week. You stay until the job is done and it is done right.
As I said, the Dem bashing is annoying. Dems were not the only ones that served on that Board. To some points, a Dem was holding the Supervisor position while all of the sewage dumping was going on but every Board member should be held accountable for this mess. Even the law does not allow innocence due to ignorance. The CFO of the Town should be overseeing the financials and meeting with the Comptroller. Board members should take responsibility for doing some of their own "fact checking". As Ronald Reagan so eloquently said, "Trust but Verify." The BOARD passes the budget, passing a budget with a tax increase BEFORE looking at the expenditures and verifying those expenditures by reviewing statements and checks is irresponsible. Maybe Board members can afford constant tax increases because it's a wash for them. Their Board salaries offset any tax increases but the private citizens can ill afford a Board that willy nilly passes tax increases and has NO IDEA the money that is being spent on DEC fines on a regular basis. What is that.....THAT is irresponsible and unforgivable.
The following comment can be found on the Dem "Talks" blog
ReplyDeleteAnonymousJuly 11, 2012 8:12 AM
"What some fail to recognize is that the Supervisor and the Town Board is elected to make the decisions for the entire town. Law provides public input during public hearings and only during public hearings.
As much as Don, Dwight, Ray and GiGi may think or wish to the contrary, the Supervisor and the Town Board do not have to listen to them. Nor do they have to share their decision-making processes with them. Don, Dwight, Ray and GiGi are a very small portion of the townsfolk.
In this democracy, the voters have their say on Election Day. After that, the decisions are in the hands of our duly elected officials."
On July 10th at 2:54 my comment is posted stating, "Getting together, as Joe LaMountain and Dwight suggest is great but they are not the decision makers. If the meeting consisted of Town Council members then progress may be possible.
I am in agreement with you, Anonymous. As Phil Malone has said, the majority can do what they want. Unless the Supervisor and Town Board members are present there is no purpose to a citizens' meeting. They are the ones elected to make the decisions and while some things are required to be public information, thus the reason FOILs are answered, the decisions are left to those in office. Those in office have increased taxes without verifying exactly where the money goes. That's irresponsible and has caused some to lose their elected position, such as the previous Supervisor. That's the very reason I do not submit FOILs or attend the meetings and subject myself to the blowhards pontificating on their own achievements and the heavy workload they have. That's why I don't bother looking at the photo ops in The Advertiser. They are the decision makers. That being said, we agree, the voting booth is really the only voice the politicians listen to. That's the reason I do stay up-to-date with the shenanigans of those holding office and the decisions they make. When I vote I want to be informed, not ignorant. After they are elected they do as they please and to heck with the public. The sewage in our water and land is evidence of that.
It's nice to know a Dem "Talks" blogger has the same viewpoint.
Just to add one last piece of evidence that the by-pass is the way to go: the Water and Sewer Authority Law, 2010 New York Code, PBA (Public Authorities Article 5), Title 8D, establishing the Rensselaer Co. Authority, states in section 1 that the Authority constitutes a "public benefit corporation" and, per section 5, "It is hereby determined and declared that the Authority and the carrying out of its powers and duties are in all respects for the benefit of the people of the county and the state for the improvement of their health, welfare and prosperity..." therefore, it stands to reason that if the consulting engineer was proposing the by-pass option ( which he clearly did, as noted above), then it must be in our best interests to let the county handle our sewage. So why is there an issue? As has been noted, if EG loses control of the sewage we also lose control of aspects of planning/development and all the unseen money that goes along with those things. This makes sense to me. Dwight
ReplyDeleteTo anyone reading this it goes without saying that the Supe and the Board don't have to listen to me or anyone else, although I have said it repeatedly. I know my role, and it is simply to raise what I think are legitimate questions and concerns. The lawmakers can do whatever they want, and I'm gonna do whatever I want. But doing what I want doesn't cost the taxpayers anything and I don't get paid. And everyone commenting about it or complaining about it is doing the exact same thing as me! As for getting together to talk, well, that's just another opportunity to learn from someone who might think differently. Again, no cost to the taxpayers and you might find out you have more in common with perceived enemies than you think. (Not foolproof though.) Sincerely, Dwight. Real person, real name.
ReplyDeleteFairly Certain- remember that politician with the dog named Checkers? Nixon? Should we have left him and his friends alone while they decided our fate? What about Daniel Ellsburg, in your view? Or Deep Throat? Should they have kept their mouths shut? In a Representative Democracy, NO. Plutocracy, maybe... Dwight
ReplyDeleteDwight the analogy is a little off but to answer your question , no of course not and I think when the local government has done wrong you and others have brought it to light and we owe you all a great debt for that. In this instance however everyone is looking for improprieties before a final (or even preliminary) decision is made.
DeleteWouldn't it be nice if possible improprieties were examined BEFORE final or preliminary decisions are made? Would save us all a lot of grief. You guys just love "after the fact" analysis. As Malone implies, after the vote all else is just talk.
DeleteLooks like in the case of the sewer stuff, there is a rush to a conclusion going on without the folks who will pay all the bills having any knowledge or say about what is happening. This is just plain wrong. And those who are pushing the quick conclusion without us "bill payers" being included and going to have to be accountable.
I'd like to know specifically what the alternatives are - including costs and time-frames. I'd also like to know exactly WHO is backing which alternative. I'd also like to hear a public explication from each point of view as to why a specific alternative is best for the community.
DeleteMr. Langley....this is the piece that you are leaving out. You and the majority appear to be hatching something without the public argument which refines and improves alternatives. If you've never learned what this is about (and it looks like this is the case) you are really short-changing the people of the Town.
I think Ray Mooney talks about making the "best business case" for a course of action. This is what is called for here. Please Keith and Rick, learn what this means and show some leadership!!
I'm not sure debate anything here is going to be productive, but i think there is one thing apparent, this site actually opens a topic for productive discussion and people participate. What people here should do is advertise the democratic blog in the advertiser. Eastgreenbushtalks is a living example of how little the democrats in this town care about governing and doing right by tax payers. People should know that Mike Condo and Pete Stenson and Mark Hicks (MAH) and Mike O'Brien write on the site and point out how they never "talk" about ANYTING substantive. Look at the comments on the blog posts. Most of the posts don't even have comments. That's all they care to do is bash people here or people who want to be involved in making things better. There was an adage that said, How a man treats his mother is how he will treat a wife." The same could be said in politics, "how a majority treats their opponents is how they treat their constituents." Phil Malone has proven to have let power go to his head and seems to hold anyone who questions his vote in contempt. Sue Mangold has proven to be interested in little more than party loyalty and Ginny, well bets are that she just doesn't last much longer on the board. Must be aggravating to be responsible and having to serve with people who have no idea of what they are doing.
ReplyDeleteKeep the dialogue going Gadfly. You have to be driving them crazy!
Fairly Certain, why do lobbyists lobby? They want something ahead of legislation and it is their RIGHT to do so. Why do newspapers, which you probably read, investigate and weigh in on matters of importance both past and present? Because it is their RIGHT to do so. Why do bloggers, including some from East Greenbush both here and on the various newspaper sites (including the Times Union), blog about local government? Because the taxpayers have concerns and because it is their RIGHT! So why the hell do you keep insisting that we are somehow wrong for exercising our rights by talking about the sewer solution??? Worse, why do you ascribe blame to us for making the process of a decision more difficult by doing so? We...impede...nothing. You, me, and everyone else have seen too many 5-0 votes on that board for us to be giving them space to make a decision, as if we were somehow pigeonholing them into a course of action they don't want to take! For God's sake give it a rest and let us talk about whatever we want to talk about because you sound like someone carrying water for the very Administration that is about to own this problem. And if they were smart that administration would take what they read both here and on that other blog into consideration before making a decision of any kind. This isn't The Truman Show, it's East Greenbush, and the new cast of characters better get it right. Dwight Jenkins
ReplyDeleteFair enough.
DeleteAnd one other thing, Fairly Certain- a preliminary decision WAS made by EG the other night in a special meeting, in the dark, voted on in the dark, and then sent to DEC for their approval, in the dark. How much more freaking room do you want us to give the board? They went to another room to discuss sewage and taxes while we stayed in the empty meeting room to discuss cookies and brown bears! How much more room do they need? We're they getting live feeds of this blog while huddling in secret? Was it annoying to them, like cell phones going off in their ass pocket while determining the fate of our sewer fees and additional bonding? Please. They'll get all the room they need in a few years if they don't unscrew this town now. How's the new Finance Director enjoying his reduced salary? How about the new bookkeeper, the one with the Master's Degree in municipal money? She enjoying the pay cut too? What did the new Supe have to give up to keep his salary and a secretary? Wake up. You should be asking for less room. Dwight
ReplyDeleteLet's consider the amazing sequence of events by our so called political leaders led by a cast of many but presently led by Ginny O'Brien and her irrresponsible soul mates Sue Mangold and Phil Malone.
ReplyDeleteThe water and sewer fund gets raided, illegally mind you, to the tune of at least $2.5 million.
Our town's credit rating is declared "junk" by two separate credit rating agencies.
Our financial situation is such that instead of re-paying the water and sewer fund within a year, as required by law mind you, we will take somewhere in the range of 8 to 12 years to pay it back.
Meanwhile back at the waste treatment plant our again so called political leaders dump raw sewage into the Hudson River and also, illegally mind you, violate not one, not two, not three, not four but five Consent Decrees with the state. We, the humble idiot taxpayers that we must be to tolerate these fools, pay ever increasing fines.
Meanwhile, back at Town Hall, our again so called political leaders "solve" our financial crisis and junk credit ratings not with a plan but by adding job after job after job after job to OUR payroll.
Taxpayers: Are you filled with confidence yet?
And now, rather than doing the fiscally prudent and responsible thing and letting the county take over our waste treatment capacity issues we are going to add a mountain of debt with a bond issue.
Of course, the key to making all this, and lots more work, is secrecy and closed government. The co-conspirator to all of that is none other than the town's attorney who has dumped enough exceptions into the ethics code to make it not worth the paper is is printed on. But he has outdone himself lately.
Joe Liccardi has figured out how to turn an "administrative action" into "pending litigation" - all with the intent to hide things from us - the very people who will be paying for the next round of bad decisions by our so called political leaders and Ginny O'Brien.
There are solutions. Supervisor Langley could simply present the pros and cons of each waste treatment capacity option and make the business case for the best option. But that level of open and transparent government seems foreign to him.
Town Board meetings and so called public hearings are now constructed such that a dialogue and questions and answers is, heaven forbid, not allowed.
Friends and fellow citizens we are, indeed, fools governed by idiots. That's not nice - I know. So, help me understand what I am missing in this whole waste treatment decision process.
A number of posts on the Talks Blog have identified Ed Gilbert as "fairly certain" as "fairly certain" has been posting over there as well.
ReplyDeleteThat certainly explains why "fairly certain" has been an unabashed advocate of the secretive policies of the Langley crowd.
Dear First Observer:
ReplyDeleteIt is my understand that one of the very first official actions new Supervisor Keith Langley took was to personally sign every check issued by the town.
SUPER move, in my opinion.
In the past we had an individual being paid as BOTH a consultant AND a town employee. Ever wonder how that worked?
But what is especially fascinating is that a FOIL discovered that a number of this same "consultant's" invoices were paid with NO approval of any kind by anyone in authority. That is a fact undisputable by our friends on the Talks blog.
And that is only one, simple example of what the OSC means when they audit our town and discover that we lack internal controls.
does the audit really say this
Deletehave you seen it
r kl &sm keeping it under wraps
I don't think the most recent OSC audit has been released yet. However there are OSC reports on the Ambulance District (2) and Town 2000 and 2008. Also there is the UHY audit report for 2009. Toski for 2010 and 2011 are not yet released.
DeleteIf you want any of these (or all) send me an e-mail at eggadfly@yahoo.com and I'll send you a .pdf of them.
thanks for clarifying
Deleteanon 9:40 was stirrin things up, eh
Quite the contrary 6:43...All of the Audit reports available have significant findings and recommendations related to internal controls. Even the UHY report for FY 2009 which was touted as a positive report had a "qualified opinion" and contrary to the vigorous efforts of the majority even had a reference to the legendary stipends.
DeleteMr. Langley,
ReplyDeleteI hope you can understand how amateurish and really dumb it is to send somebody out to post on the blogs under a pen name instead of publishing your own policy positions. The Town, after all, has a website.
The message your anonymous surrogate is sending is that the public should keep quiet and allow the "elected leadership" do what it will - without question or explanation - with the full trust and support of the public.
This is a disaster. Ginny and company are laughing all the way to the bank.
Stop it, Don, you're ruining everything with your ruinous comments and questions. Just let the experts handle it. (insert laughter) Actually, your commentary and blogging in general are very instructive: for those who would allege that you are but a tool of the minority it has become clear over the months that you treat Mr. Langley no differently than you treated Mr. McCabe. A Supe's a Supe, with obligations that outshine political parties. Thank you. Dwight Jenkins
ReplyDeleteThanks Dwight. It's really too bad that ANY administration can't catch on to the idea that "best business practice" might be the way to run a government. Go figure.....
ReplyDeleteJust had what I can't call a colloquy with one of the "faceless" on Talks who states that we engage in "inuendo" on this blog. I'd say that inuendo trumps flatulence any day of the week. And oral flatulence is really at the bottom of the list. But they just can't stop. Beans, beans, the musical fruit and all that.....
Don't thank me too soon, Don. At the risk of being hated by almost every single person who reads this, I want to point out that Phil Malone, despite his shortcomings, continues to impress me in ways that might not impress others. Mainly, he says what he thinks, even if what he thinks is controversial, borderline rude (when he took Rick Matters to task for a vote in front of a packed house), and maybe even downright wrong, as I believe with his decision to reduce the new Finance Director's salary so as to keep the old Finance Director in a new position. Party loyalty should only go so far.
ReplyDeleteI mention all of this for two reasons: he showed up at the special secret poop meeting last week fresh from working all day in the sun, dirty jeans, t-shirt and all. Reminded me of the days when Mike Cristo used to scuff his way into some of those early pre-board meetings with his unlaced Timberlins flopping, coming straight from a job. Like Mr. Malone, Mr. Cristo could likewise be counted on for some true, headline-grabbing comments.
The other reason I offer is Mr. Malone's recent problems with the Department of State on that notary public thing during the last election cycle. Yeah, he made some unfortunate remarks to the investigator, but he did his time (6 months where he couldn't really act as a notary, I think, which ended last month or so) and has moved on without making a big deal about it. The DOS agreed that he was wrong in what happened but seemed to believe the "innocent mistake" argument. So I see a passionate young guy who makes some errors but forges ahead anyway. Unlike some of the others on that board, I believe Mr. Malone would say it to your face instead of stick it in your back. Personally, I'm fine with that. And to be honest, I have never spoken a word to the man, nor he to me. So I think we could use more Phil Malone's on the board. At least we'd have some interesting discussions. Dwight Jenkins
Dwight, I would like to agree with you. But I see Malone as immature and short tempered.
ReplyDeleteI found his mini tirade when his mother's office got moved childish.
I felt his threats to the state employee investigating his notary violations contempible and even more childish. Am I missing anything here?
He took credit during the campaign for Regeneron adding jobs. In reality and in fact he had exactly nothing to do with that.
He has promised to get our town a higher percentage of sales tax revenue. Good politics - totally empty promise.
In his campaign he promised greater transparency. Yea, right.
It is nice that he is finally a productive citizen with a real job. But really his sole claim to fame is joining his mother and a brother on the town payroll. That and coming up with the clever moniker that identifies this blog.
I cannot identify a single good and decent thing Phil Malone has done for our town. He votes with the majority every time - big deal. My dog can contribute that much to our town.
I think Dwight has a valid point.
DeleteLangley votes with the majority 98 percent of the time, Langley drives around in his truck in the sun every day during work hours, Langley also promised greater transparency in his campaign and didn't keep his promise and Langley is the one responsible for scheduling the secret Town Board meetings.
However unlike Malone, Langley doesn't have a public opinion on anything.
I tend to agree with Dwight, when you compare Malone with Langley, Malone doesn't look so bad.
Dwight, giving Malone, and anyone else, credit for saying what he thinks should only matter when his thinking is responsible and contributes to making our town a better place.
ReplyDeleteSo far I see zero ecidence of that as regards Mr. Phil Malone.
Anyone who would like to correct the record should feel free to do so. Please begin with how far Phil went in law school. He lists attending as a accomplishment on his resume.
".. working all day in the sun, dirty jeans, t-shirt and all"?
ReplyDeleteSounds like Law School doesn't quite pay off like it used to.
But what has ANY board member done? Dwight
ReplyDeleteDwight, I think you might just be toying with us, right?
ReplyDeleteNo. Don't forget where I grew up: the Marines are full of brash young men willing to be confrontational. As we used to say, Lead, follow, or get out of the way. To say "We are the majority and we"ll do what we want" is somewhat dictatorial but in a strange way comforting to me. Someone HAS to take charge or the hill doesn't get taken, the island doesn't get conquered... East Greenbush faces huge challenges, with a split board with a meek minority that doesn't recognize it's strengths and a strong majority that bayonets everything in front of them, even when they should be outgunned. I admire that. Doesn't mean I won't fight against it. I just find it hard to dislike elements of it.
ReplyDeleteAbout all Phil Malone has been successful at was doing his part to get McCabe voted out. Now he has O'Brien and Mangold shaking in their boots, and doing what he tells them to do. Take take take, mine all mine!
ReplyDeleteDwight, sometimes you act the fool - I guess for your own amusement. But the shape our town is in is not, to me anyway, amusing at all.
ReplyDeleteHere's Malone's recent track record:
Supported the total gutting of the ethics code recommended by the Ethics Board.
Supported increasing the town's payroll with additional and unneccesary patronage positions in the midst of our financial crisis.
Whined like a jilted 15 year old when his mommy's office got moved.
Did you forget his famous comment that the CFAC's primary mission was to help him get re-elected?
Must I go on?
The town board, led by majority leader Ginny O'Brien and supported by knuckleheads Mangold and Malone consistently do the wrong thing the wrong way.
But, I have to give you credit. You livened things up with your tasteless and rather dumb comment. Keep 'em coming.
What's next? Keith Langley is the poster boy for open and transparent government?? Joe Liccardi is a brilliant legal mind working his butt off for the good of the town's citizens?? Sue Mangold has no conflicts of interest and cares more about the town than her family's multiple businesses??
There is NOTHING even remotely funny about what this, and past boards, have done to this town's good folks. Our tax dollars have been and continue to be squandered. That's not funny - at all.
From the minutes of June's County Legislative meeting, P/291/12 is a a resolution "Formally stating interest in pursuing Intermunicipal Sanitary Sewer Shared Services Agreement with the Town of East Greenbush." The County Legislature said "WE'RE INTERESTED!" Why then does Mr. LaBarba, the County Water and Sewer Authority poop consultant, tell the Authority that negotiations with the County have gone stale? Just last month they were fresh! Anybody know what's up? Dwight
ReplyDeleteAnonymous 8:05, I have discovered that there are far worse things than laughing in the face of disaster. Sometimes it's the best of several bad options. I think God laughs with every armadillo He makes, despite the suicide bombers in Iraq and Afghanistan, despite the civil war in Syria, despite the terrible fires in Colorado. Do i think it's funny what's happening here? Yup, sometimes I do! Endlessly! Sign your name next time, we might all get a bigger chuckle out of it when we see who it's from! Dwight
ReplyDeleteI just read on the Talks blog about talk within the Republican party to encourage Defruscio to ask Langley to resign as Supe so they will be able to run a Republican candidate for supervisor in 2013 instead of 2015 and that some interesting names are being mentioned to run.
ReplyDeleteHas anyone heard anything about this? It sure does explain why Langley has been so quiet.
Oh, and that apparent discrepancy between what Mr. LaBarba said and what the County said? Mr. LaBarba said it in October 2011. The County was ready to get in bed in June 2012. Mr. LaBarba may have been correct. BUT...the County sounds like they're finally up to some frolicking with us after a 9 month long gestational period. Let's hope the baby doesn't come out with dollar signs for eyes. Dwight
ReplyDeleteDwight....Incongruity and cognitive dissonance are the heart of humor. And we've got a lot of that in EG. Don't we often say that "you just can't make this stuff up?"
ReplyDeleteYou've got the one Board member responsible for getting rid of financial disclosure saying at the Ethics hearing that EG really doesn't have any ethics issues. (I'll post the video on YouTube.) I thought this was particularly funny in the context of the Dem majority Board (in 2002) secretly letting Mr. McCabe resign for 48 hours so he could "legally" apply for his double-dip pension, and then re-appoint him to his position on the Board.
Then you've got a Dem water-carrier defending the interfund borrowing by saying that the money was spent within the accounts of the Town - neglecting to say that Junk bonds resulted. Now that's funny, because you just can't make this stuff up.
You've got Mangold and Malone running on a platform of accountability and transparency. And we get "what we pass, passes." I'll put that up on YouTube too.
Then you've got the new Supe having questions about "open government" as in "you're not one of those open government people are you?" Then we've got Fairly Certain saying that we should just trust elected officials to "do their jobs." You just can't make this stuff up.
The humor is there, but the problem is that a government is supposed to be functioning too. I'm convinced that if it weren't for the protections afforded by "connections," this bunch would be written up by the control agencies - big time.
That would be the REAL laugh.
The "sticky wicket" on the humor thing is that incongruity and cognitive dissonance also figure prominently in the works of Sartre and Kafka. As Ray would say..."Yikes."
Deletegadfly,
Deleteresigning for one day to collect a pension and salary is SOP in the state legislature and completely legal.
Perhaps you could explain how that works in the state legislature. If a senator or assemblyman resigns, he has to be re-elected in his/her district to continue as a member. A Town board member can be re-appointed by his/her colleagues. I cited the McCabe story because of all the "holier than thou" BS that was thrown around about double-dipping recently.
Deletea difference without a distinction
DeleteI posted your response, Anonymous, because you advanced false information and tried to sustain a really dumb argument by doing so. Typical. And an example of one of the really big problems around here.
Deletei repeat, a difference without a distinction educate me oh wise one
DeleteOne more time....this is really not rocket science. The law does not allow members of the Assembly or members of the Senate to reinstate a member who has resigned. So nobody can resign for a day and be reinstated. The seat is vacant and must be filled by an election.
DeleteTown law allows a vacancy occurring on the Town board to be filled by appointment by members of the Town board. In McCabe's case, he resigned for a period long enough to get his teacher's pension application in and then was reappointed by Angelini, Halloran, Kennedy and Reilly - I think these were the four others on the Board at the time. It appears from the Times Union story that it was done in relative secrecy.
I'd say that a straightforward way to accomplish the same end would be to wait until you are a candidate for election in the next one, and if you get re-elected resign on December 29th, make your application and take office on January 1st.
I think it is a riot that Ginny O'Brien double dipped in her day and then, in an period of enlightenment, decided no one else should do what she did. Wisdom coming with the years perhaps?
ReplyDeleteI think it is very funny that Rick McCabe actually expected people to buy the "it was town mileage that accounted for my $5,000 stipend" story. If you tell a big enough lie often enough people will believe it. Where have I read that before?
I think violating Consent Decree after Consent Decree is pretty funny. Makes you wonder when do the adults arrive to deal with that issue responsibly?
I think if you are perverted enough or immature enough maybe you think calling Ann Taylor "Miss Giggle Giggle Boom Boom" is pretty funny. Once you get out of high school or thinking like a 12 year old that does not seem so funny does it?
I think the ability of just about EVERY politician to actually believe their own bullcrap is, far and away, the funniest thing going. I mean these people are serious when they lay their crap on us. I guess the logic is "If I am stupid enough to say these things out loud you ought to be stupid enough to actually believe them."
And all too many of us actually do.
To AnonymousJuly 17, 2012 12:52 PM:
ReplyDeleteThank you.
No, thank you!!!
DeleteAnonymous July 17, 12:52 pm, well said my friend. Clean, precise, and to the point. An elected official has no excuse for stupidity. Ann, they made d-m well sure that the smart ones didn't get elected. Gadfly, they hate you, Dwight, Ray, Ann and others, because you are too smart for them.
DeleteHow come your tormenters can't provide documentation showing the current and the previous administration's great leadership skills? Where are the foils revealing how our town benefited by inter-fund money transfers? How does our town benefit by so many family members on the town's payroll? They may be good employees, but are they the best employees?
Not to be forgotten, the POOP fiasco. Sure, they neglected the matter because of financial gain, but it was not the smart decision for the town. We need more smart people on the town board, who are willing to make smart decisions, for the benefit of all taxpayers.
This town needs a hell of a lot more Gadflies.
"Thank you, thank you very much."
ReplyDeleteYa gotta love all the 5-0 Town Board votes. Ain't democracy great!
ReplyDeleteWhy don't they all just give Ginny O'Brien their proxies?
Good work by Mangold in putting together the Regeneron deal, at least one of the Board is doing something productive.
Remember them talking about changing the towns name. Well, been thinking.. With this board we have now and Matters hands being tied and langley going with the flow ..
ReplyDeleteMaybe they should call it the "O'Briens Loft."
As it does sit above Albany.
O'Briens have more say about what goes on around here then the majority of people that pay taxes..
Dear Anonymous 10:57 AM
DeleteWhy are Matters hands being tied? Would you give us some insight about that? I'd appreciate it.
What part are you not geting? Anonymous 12:23PM
ReplyDeleteMatters hands have been tied for awhile now.
Are you not aware of the 3-2 board members.
It is almost like Langley isn't really their either. So when you put that all together.. YOu might think what good was it to get Keith in? Cause that is were I am at.
Town Board meetings are the Comedy Central for East Greenbush and it's free. We may not have a place to swim with our families but you are sure to get a ration of double standards and bull $hit for your lifetime.
If the town advertised better we might be able to get a whole town population to show for these amussing sessions add some popcorn and some drinks, we might not see another tax increase.
the part I don't get is the 5-0 vote on every issue when we should have the representation of a 2 vote minority. We should have a public record of the dissent of the minority representatives as well as explanations of the dissenting opinions. We should expect alternative offerings from Langley and Matters and their silence is just another part I don't get. Who tied Matters's hands and why. Let's get them undone.
DeleteAnyone notice this article?
ReplyDeleteDEC to town (East Greenbush): Fix the sewers
http://www.timesunion.com/business/article/DEC-to-town-Fix-the-sewers-3742226.php
53 new projects approved by the Town since 2009!
Catskill Ave:
ReplyDeleteThe town routinely violates the law and agreements it makes - routinely.
But the consequences, with a Democratic state government, seem little to none.
Heck, 19 of 19 people at Bruen received illegal pension credits. No big deal to the OSC and to the state.
$500,000 of OUR money was spent for an early retirement option. The town cannot prove, and the state does not seem to care, that the required savings got spent on nepotism and additional patronage appointments.
The deputy chief destroyed evidence. No big deal to anyone around town.
5 Consent Decrees violated; fines paid with our money - again no big deal to the state until lately because some concerned citizens raised the stakes by going to the media.
There are bunch of other examples. Illegal stipends was only the beginning.
I don't understand it. But we get a shot next year when there are 2 open town board positions. We need new blood. We need positive change and we need to vote out every incumbent except Rick Matters - and that includes Langley when his term is up a few years down the road.