The following is a verbatim transcript of what transpired
after the public comment portion of the November 6, 2014 Special Meeting to
review the 2015 Preliminary Budget:
Comptroller George Phillips:
“Let’s go to page 20 of the budget. The deficit in General Fund is not
likely to be decreased, we had a $300K deficit at the end of last year, we’re
holding our own throughout 2014 to continue to have a negative operating fund
for our main general fund. We have a
$458K commitment for prepaid retirement because we have to pay a quarter of our
retirement early in order to save on the cost of financing it and paying it in
February so we pay on December 15th a full year’s worth of
retirement but a quarter of that payment ($114K) is really a prepayment that, therefore, has
to be a restriction of our fund balance in effect. Same thing with the Highway
Fund, we have just under a $400K deficit to deal with. These are the types of things that we have to
turn around and make positive in the town by underspending our budget for
spending and over earning our budget for revenue consistently for probably a
number of years and before you can get a credit rating improved, you have to
show the fiscal restraint and not allow those to go negative for two to three
years. Moody’s doesn’t want to hear that
you got it done because you got a $5M casino payment and then you leverage
yourself to the hilt and you’re in worse shape actually.”
Supervisor Langley: “Moody’s with the junk bond status that
we currently find our self in took a while to get our self into and it’s going
to take some time to get our self out because as you just mentioned, these fund
balances have to remain at zero or at a positive state for a period of two or
three years before you’re going to get a positive response out of Moodys and
our rating. I also want to state, for my own benefit, that these negative fund
balances are a reflection of the inter-fund borrowing that took place in
previous years, right? This is what we’re trying to reduce down, this is not
something that happened this year or last year, this is a collection of years
of inter-fund borrowing and this is an actual accounting of it that we’ve never
seen before.
George Phillips: “Right. We haven’t put this on our budget in
prior years. I actually had to go back
to the source bank statements and checks and source documents of the town
because the financial system is so broken beyond repair and transactions
weren’t posted, the only way I could get to these numbers was essentially going
back to bank statements and actually walking through checks and cross-checking.
Supervisor Langley: “So this is very admirable because I
think this is evidence of transparency that has not probably existed in the
past because we have not seen these numbers or been able to really get a handle
on what the actual inter-fund debt was and it has bounced around, I’ve heard in
the over two years that I’ve been here, I’ve heard numbers jump around
dramatically and this is the first time that we’ve actually been able to see
it. I thank you for actually bringing it
to a point where everyone can have a good look at what’s left to address.
Jeff Pangburn: “George, just a point of clarification. Is
this an annual deficit or the actual total debt?
George Phillips: It’s the annual deficit. The total debt for
the town if you want to talk in terms of amounts of money we owe for current
provisions, you have to be talking in the tens and tens and tens of millions,
at least 20 to 30 to 40 million dollars of different types of promises that
have been made. The actual debt page on
the AUD if you pull it off on the Open Book will only list about $2.6M, but we
have a Rensselaer County Water/Sewer Authority organization that’s issued
approximately $20M worth of debt that we’re paying down at five or so percent
interest. We have another $13M worth of
debt, which is with the waste water treatment plant, which the comptroller’s
office had me back out of the AUD, they said I was being too transparent, so I
had to take it out, but we know it’s coming, so it’s really there, we’ve issued
it, it’s just, they’re holding it in trust, they said. “
Dave Gruenberg: “The $390M isn’t an annual shortfall, is it?”
George Phillips: “No, it’s the total cumulative debt.”
Dave Gruenberg: “So, it’s not like we’re going to run a debt
of $390M every year?”
George Phillips: “Operationally, we should break even this year for both of those funds…that’s our
goal.”
Supervisor Langley: “This is what’s left of the accumulation
of the inter-fund borrowing that took place in years past.”
Jeff Pangburn: “This is a debt number?”
George Phillips: “This is not exactly a debt number.”
Supervisor Langley: “It’s a deficit number.”
George Phillips: “It’s a deficit number. Is that fair?”
Jeff Pangburn: “We’ll catch up later (laughter).”
Supervisor Langley: “It’s not a structured debt, it’s a
deficit through inter-fund borrowing that took place over many years, and I’m
not going to use the word mismanagement but monies were borrowed against these
funds and not replaced.”
Jeff Pangburn: “So, there are holes we still have to plug but
we’re not adding to it this year because we’re zero percent.”
George Phillips: “With the exception of water and the
ambulance district which are going to negative current year cashflow. Do you
see the negative $50K and the negative $112K,
that means that we’re actually spending more than we’re bringing in.
Now, let me go back to ambulance district because I have something we need to
correct here. The Ambulance District, I need to correct that for the board and
for the public in the sense that I thought we had about a quarter of a million
dollars of fund balance there, but what I found out in working through and
looking all the records through with Bruen, as far as their transactions, is
that the prior comptroller in November did a transaction of just over a quarter
of a million dollars of wire transfers to Bruen and never posted them, so when
I was trying to post against bank statements, I didn’t have a check, I had a
wire, I had a (inaudible) agency and a fund balance reconciliation and in
looking at their books and comparing the two between us I have now concluded
that we’ve got a fund balance most likely that’s dropping by a quarter of a
million there. I’m sorry to give you the
bad news but I’d rather give it to you quicker, sooner, than later but that’s
where we’re at on that one, and we’ll move forward.”
Dave Gruenberg: “So, where you’re showing a positive
$226,629M, that’s not real.”
George Phillips: “That is not real.”
Tom Grant: “George, we’re looking at a negative fund balance?
George Phillips: “Yes, the Ambulance District has a negative
fund balance at this point, and I don’t think we need to do an amendment to the
budget to that effect. It’s an informational field. That was the best info I
had at that point in time, but I owe you that it has substantially been updated
after I had a chance to look at Bruen’s books and compare the wire transfers
between the two because it was no longer a trust in agency miscellaneous fund,
it was in their bank account. I wanted to add one other thing to answer Pete
Stenson’s question on the contingency. We did have a field that takes care of
contingency on page 8 of 10 for the general fund. It’s approximately $177, it’s
the 962 and 827 accounts, those go into the tax levy and they don’t have specific
claims to them. Obviously, we have union negotiations on going, we have a lot
of issues to try and cut costs as the year progresses and to grow revenues, so
we have some challenges to make that a higher number but $177 is what we have
in that fund. If you look at the Highway Fund, which is on page 10, the same
account has another $138K in contingency.
Relative to water and sewer, we do have some level of fund balances in
those two funds. Obviously, the
Ambulance District that we’re hiring Bruen to do the service has a pretty
serious challenge on our hands and we’re working that through with them at this
point, and we hope to have better info over the next couple of weeks on that,
so stay tuned.”
Supervisor Langley: “George, I’d like to, if I could, I want
to address one of Pete Stenson’s concerns with regards to debt service
associated with the waste water treatment plant. Going forward, the payments
are going to begin to increase next year and the year after and for the
foreseeable future. We are in the process now of addressing that and it’s going
to come in the way of rate increases. Is that what we’re expecting to see, and
it’s going to be done by resolution separate from this budget?”
George Phillips: “Correct, this budget merely states a
revenue target estimate. In order to
increase the usage fees for water and sewer, we need to have the board approve
resolutions to increase those rates. Then we have to provide notice to be
courteous and appropriate, we have to tell people before they start drinking the
water and using the sewerage, flushing the toilet if you will, that the cost of
that is now higher at that point. So we’d like to give people advance notice
within the billing cycle of when the increase is going to occur so that they
can plan their usage patterns and budget their cash flow accordingly. So that’s
something we’re going to be talking hopefully with the board at the next
pre-board we’d like to get that on the agenda to talk with you folks about
raising the water and sewer rates, and whether we want to do that or we don’t
want to do that, we at least have to talk about that as a piece of the puzzle
because when you look at $600K in debt service, we have to be aware of all of
our options there. I appreciate, Pete, that the tax deductibility is a concern,
it really is, I get that, I think we all do, but we also are living in a tax
cap world, and with that structure saying that we have to stay under $1.5 or do
a tax cap over-ride, it opens up the door of a lot of public ill-will feelings
and then you’re breaking the cap and once you break the cap who’s to say you
might not break it by more, so we have to look at the usage and I’m thinking
that’s probably something we’re going have to seriously consider, so I
appreciate the tax thing. I know there are people who don’t pay the water and
sewer bill, pay the 10% penalty in January and then deduct it but that’s not
appropriate to do, so I’m not encouraging anyone to do that but… (laughter)”.
Supervisor Langley: “It’s done though.”(more laughter)”
Dan Fiacco: “How do you increase taxes when certain people
aren’t on sewer. They’ll have to pay for…”
Supervisor Langley: “Usage fees.”
George Phillips: “If you’re on sewer or water, you’re going
to have to pay the usage fee that will hopefully deal with the negative cash
flow with water and the future negative cash flow, if we don’t address it, with
the $600K debt in 2017 coming at us from the waste water treatment plant.”
Dan Fiacco: “Well, we don’t want to pass that cost on to
someone who doesn’t use …”
George Phillips: “Even if we use the property tax, we
wouldn’t be passing it on to users who don’t use sewer and water because we’d
only be increasing the property tax in the sewer districts or water districts
involved for the particular projects. So, in that sense, it would still be
charged to just people in those districts. Approximately, 20 to 30% of our
residents aren’t on a sewer or water district at all and to the extent that
they are they would be seeing the usage fee or the tax increase to pay for that
cash flow issue relative to going forward.”
Tom Grant: “George, do you have a rough estimate of how much
the fee increase might be on your average use of water?”
George Phillips: “Okay, typically we do this every three
years, I’m going to say this number, and just, you’re all sitting, okay? Every
three years we’ve been doing this as I’ve gone back in time, we’ve been doing a
20-25% increase. The reason you guys haven’t noticed it in the pocket book as
substantially as that sounds like it should be is because we’ve never had the
courage to actually increase the minimum [monthly payment]. So, we’ve been
basically helping the fixed income senior citizens and individuals who have
minimum usage to not really see any increase for the last forever. We may have
to address that. That is a very painful thing for the board to be increasing
because a lot of those people don’t have a way to find the extra funds. So,
first of all you need to communicate it really clearly to them as clearly as
you can if you’re going to do that and you have to think it through very, very
carefully relative to how it’s going to play out. It’s going to be painful regardless but we
have to do the best we can if we want to raise the minimum. At some point we do
have to. We’ve kind of not bitten the bullet for quite a few number of years so
far.”
Tom Grant: “But for people who are over the minimum, you’re
talking, you know, rough, 20-30%?”
George Phillips: “You’re minimum is still the same price so
until we do the increase you don’t have the full impact of the 25% increase.
Now you see why it hasn’t felt like a 25% increase every three years. We have
to increase because the City of Troy is doing full increases on us every year
like clockwork. We also have kind of a tenuous relationship with the City of
Rensselaer where they are supposed to pay for part of the water debt with the
Rensselaer County Water/Sewer Authority and they kind of want to have a
cheeseburger today and maybe they’ll pay for it someday and they also want us
to pay for half of the maintenance on the shared assets between us and we don’t
really bill them for our half of the shared assets so we have some challenges
there.”
Supervisor Langley: “But
that’s something we’re trying to work through to see exactly what those costs
are that have not been addressed. We’ve just assumed the debt and George has
brought it to our attention that we may want to take a closer look at a more
accurate division of costs between Rensselaer and East Greenbush with regards
to the pump station and the storage facility up on the hill and the costs
associated with them.
Pete Stenson (former Comptroller): “I just want to say that
the reserves that you pointed to, the first time they were used, they were
created by the former CP Matters, CP Danaher, and CP Cristo to pay down the
debt from inter-fund borrowing. So, if you’re using that to support the
contingency, then you’re not paying down the inter-fund borrowing.”
George Phillips: “We are looking at all of our expenditure
lines within the funds to drill down to lower them and try to under-spend and
over-earn everywhere we can. Not an easy task, agreed, but that’s what we’re
focusing our energy on to find that. So, we have to make that happen anyway.”
Supervisor Langley: “From a legal standpoint, I think that’s
the only process by which you can eliminate a deficit that has been incurred
from inter-fund borrowing.
George Phillips: “That’s what I heard from the Comptroller’s
office, that if you’re really planning to solve the problem, you have to
out-earn and under-spend. You could argue it’s sandbagging but it’s not
necessarily sandbagging if you’re changing to try to figure out how to do with
one person what you used to do with two and get it done as well or better or at
least willing to accept the compromise of what less staffing will or can
accomplish for the public. What can we afford for what we want to do?”
Supervisor Langley: “None of this is an easy task but it’s
being addressed as opposed to being neglected and allowed to grow as it has in
the past previous administrations. That’s what got us into this situation. So,
while it’s uncomfortable to pay the fiddler now at some point we have to do it
and now is the time, and I’m prepared to do what we have to do to get it done.”
Pete Stenson: “The $600K debt service, that’s gross on the
$12 to $14M.”
George Phillips: “That $600K in sewer debt is going to be
added in 2017 as a gross amount.”
Pete Stenson: ”So that doesn’t reflect any refinancing of
current debt?”
George Phillips: ”No, that’s just the principle and 1%
interest at that point in time.”
Pete Stenson: “Mary
Beth from Delaware Engineering said that the intent after the treatment plant
was structurally finished and the PFC issues the debt, is that you’ll be able
to include principle at issuance to refinance the existing sewer debt.”
George Phillips: “Oh, in theory, we could go after the $8M of
Rensselaer County five percent debt. The
problem with that, Pete, is that debt is issued over something like a 35 or 40
year term, typically when you go to the EOC for a refi on that they’re going to
step it down to 20 or 25 years but they won’t give us zero percent financing
because you folks make too much is what they tell me, so Rensselaer they can do
it for but they can’t do it for us.”
Supervisor Langley: “On the balance of the money that was
there on that bond that we just satisfied half with Rensselaer, is that the one
you’re referring to?”
George Phillips: “There’s another half of it. There’s $7M
that’s water and $8.5M that’s sewer. That $8.5M in sewer, we could go after
refinancing but we would be cramming down more principle instead of a 30 year
down to 20 year and we’re not getting zero percent financing, we’d be going
from five to market rate and right now market rate could be, even with the FC
subsidy, could be anywhere from 2 to 4 to 5 by itself.”
Supervisor Langley: “Are you saying we could add that debt to
the existing EFC financing for the waste water treatment plant?”
George Phillips: “Once we’ve taken care of the $13M at the 1%,
we could then go out and try to take the $8.5M through refinancing. I don’t
think we’d get the same 1% interest though.”
Supervisor Langley: “So, it wouldn’t be under the same
package?”
George Phillips: “No. I don’t think so. She did confirm that
it could refi but not at the 1%ish rate.
It would be another refi with EOC is what I heard.”
Pete Stenson: “I just did some quick calculations on page 4
of the “other” revenue in the sewer line and it looks like it’s about $1.3M, so
it’s a $600K increase, about 50%.”
George Phillips: “Wait a minute. $600K increase, what do you
mean?”
Pete Stenson: “$600K in sewer (waste water treatment plant)
debt service that’s going to come down the pike in three years.”
George Phillips: “Oh, I’m not sure where you’re going with
that. These are…”
Pete Stenson: “The other option if you’re not going to do a
tax increase…”
George Phillips: “We haven’t decided that yet. We’re trying
to work that through. We’re going to have a discussion with the board.”
Pete Stenson: “I’m looking at some of these revenues or
mitigation fees that you could increase but we’re looking at almost a 50%
increase.”
George Phillips: “Okay. I get you. So what’s your point?”
Pete Stenson: “Well, that’s something you have to take into
consideration.”
George Phillips: “We are. We are taking that into
consideration. If we are using a usage fee there rather than trying to deal
with a 50% increase since we don’t need a 50% increase, we need money in 2017,
one thing we have to realize is that we have $60K of it this year, that $60K is
already in the budget, already worked into the cost for the taxes, the tax levy
for January. The increase that we adopt for 2016 let’s say really needs to help
us soften the blow about $180-$200K of debt service increase. Then, it ramps up
another $400K in 2017 so we could stage those increases, we could split them
into taxes and usage, there are a number of ways to skin the cat, we have to
start talking about how to skin that particular cat and that’s why we’re going
to try to get it on the board agenda for next week.”
Pete Stenson: “I’m just saying that at the end of the day
it’s roughly a 45% increase if it were all non-tax revenue.”
George Phillips: “If it were all non-tax revenue over the
two-year period.”
Pete Stenson: “At the end of the day (2017) when you start
paying the $600K debt service.”
George Phillips: “It is what it is. That’s the math. You’re right.”
Supervisor Langley: “George, anything else?”
George Phillips: “I think that’s it unless anybody
else…(someone who came in late raised his hand)
Supervisor Langley: “We’ve concluded the public comment but
go ahead…”
Phil Vecchio: “Just a question, you were talking about the
accumulating fund balance, negative fund balances, and that was one of the
points that was raised in the audit reports that the comptroller has issued in
past years. How many years back did you have to go back to reconstruct? You
were saying that we haven’t had fund balances in the past several years.”
George Phillips: “Unfortunately, the records in the accounting
system is so broken beyond repair that I really had to go back to current
source starting documents and work from them.”
Phil Vecchio: “For several years?”
George Phillips: “I really started with 2013 end of year bank
statement and I tried to gleen through transactions. One of the things I
pointed out, one of the things I just found out today, literally, to confirm,
is that the fund balance for the ambulance district where I had a transaction
going out of the bank statement for last November didn’t get posted so when I
looked at the comptrollers input transactions for Nov 2013, a
quarter million
dollars, I didn’t have a place to match the wire transfer to.”
Phil Vecchio: “I guess my point is that you had to
reconstruct the original entries?”
George Phillips: “Yeah. I really did. There really wasn’t any
other way to go.”
End of meeting.
Oh, my goodness! Long read but very informative. Are we any better off financially than we were three years ago when Supr. Langley was hired? Those fund deficits in the hundreds of thousands of dollars look daunting. Is anyone looking out for us financially speaking? If we got a casino, would those funds be managed any better?
ReplyDeleteMr. Phillips' candid answers have finally publicized the fact that Supervisor Langley has been a major part of the problem. It sure looks like Langley has done absolutely nothing over the last three years to oversee the fiscal condition of our Town. Now, thanks to Mr. Langley's three years of do nothing government, the residents are facing a combination of massive fee and tax increases starting in January of 2017.
ReplyDeleteThanks for nothing, Mr. Langley. You have kept all of these financial problems a secret from all except your political cronies. Now the people of EG will be paying dearly for your laziness, secrecy and incompetence!!
I'm going to differ a little bit with your assumption that Mr. Langley has done nothing, but yes he is kind of in over his head. He is doing something at least in my opinion he seems to be trying to fix the mess this town is in. This town didn't get into this mess over night, and it will not be fixed over night.
DeleteThis does not mean I am endorsing Mr. Langley's possition, because truth be told he will not get a vote from my house. I'm just saying that it seems to me he is at least trying to fix a mess.
Oh and like you, I am a ticked off tax payer too!!!!
Mr. Langley,
ReplyDeleteThis is why it is important to answer questions at Town Board meetings. If it wasn't for Comptroller George Phillips having the courage to answer questions at the budget meeting nobody would have been aware of the big mess you have gotten us into.
Well we are all aware now!
Put that in your next Supervisor's Report!!
Shocking! I will hope for new, honest candidates that we can trust to clean this up. No Casino, No Incumbents. Save East Greenbush.
ReplyDeleteThe candidates should carry copies of this transcript with them when they campaign next year.
OK..I agree with you ! WHO ?
DeleteThis kind of backs up everything the gadfly's have been saying for years, this town has been a disaster for years.
ReplyDeleteThank you gadfly's!!!
It doesn't look like Mr. Langley has any idea what is going on. He didn't seem very prepared for this meeting based on his questions.
ReplyDeleteI'm picturing a deer in the headlights look from Mr. Langley.
This last several town boards and the last several supervisors are guilty of gross malfeasance. Read that as stupid, incompetent, cowardly and as failures to speak the truth.
ReplyDeleteThat's harsh, I know. But 100% supported by the facts.
The fines from the state, the resistance to a forensic audit, the waste treatment plant decision, the early retirement option. The list could go on and on and on.
The town is functionally bankrupt.
We now know exactly why these boobs totally ignored the will of the people and grasped the casino as their solution to this continuing financial crisis.
If impeachment, recall or removal from office were an option this town board should go away. We need smart, professional people to make intelligent decision. This crew? They ain't it.
Gadfly:
ReplyDeleteI want to comment on the use of consultants.
Consultants, in my view, are for weak and ineffective leaders and managers.
Consultants give the illusion of action and activity when there is none.
Consultants provide political cover, ie "We are following the advice of the consultant".
Consultants allow politicians to avoid decisions and accountability. See above. "It is not my fault the consultant recommended it".
And I am here to state, subject to anyone's rebuttal, that every single penny of taxpayer money spent on a consultant has been wasted. Doubt it? I offer the money spent for a review of the town's park system as a sad example. Lots of money, flashy presentation. For what? Nothing. Absolutely nothing.
I disagree in that consultants do provide expertise that is not available in-house.
DeleteAll these many years into junk bond status and we still do not have a financial recovery plan. Shameful supervisor Langley and crew. Utterly shameful.
ReplyDeleteUnless and until the town leadership takes on the unions and addresses both health benefit costs and pension current and future costs all the supervisor and town board are doing is pushing the can down the road.
Unless and until the supervisor, in his role as chief financial officer, and the town board addresses overtime the financial crisis will continue.
Unless and until somebody grows a pair and figures out that East Greenbush has more fire districts than needed things will not change.
Unless and until somebody gets smart to the unbelievable mess we call Bruen things will not change.
The town's problems are obvious. The solutions are as well. All we lack is leadership, brains and a will to address the obvious. McCabe and crew were none of these things. Langley and crew either.
Maybe 2015 will be the year. Here's hoping.
I'm with Jim C on this and even differ a little bit. Everyone wants our financial mess fixed, true statement. George Phillips seem to be the first guy to get a handle on it and address it publicly, fair statement. Supervisor Langley appointed Mr. Phillips, true statement.
ReplyDeleteWe can't throw the baby out with the bathwater. Keith has not done a stellar job at open and honest government and even now, this late in the game, this transparency is somewhat suspect with the casino debacle looming and a forthcoming election. But right now, like it or not folks, Keith at the very least gets the credit for bringing the reality of our financial condition to the table. Whether he is capable to deal with it is another question, but his guy, did the work and has us on a path to figuring it out.
Remember, under consecutive democratic control, this problem was not only created by ignored. Keith could have done a lot more to garner resident trust by being more transparent with the casino issue nd it will likely cost him, but we can not afford to go back to the people who created this mess.
Part of our problem here is going to be the voting public. If taxes need to go up to in part fix this mess, people will vote out the people who put the solution in place, in exchange for the people who created this mess. It's a serious catch 22.
Keith may not be the solution, but but he is not the sole cause of the problem either and for two years and years before that, Mr. Malone was in part, in charge along with Sue Mangold, Rick McCabe and Ginny O'Brien. Where are they to help devise a solution. Only Pete Stinson at least contributes to the discussion.
Laying this at Keith's feet isn't entirely fair. He's proven he can't be trusted and is not open and transparent, but this is the kind of dialogue we need and it should not be discouraged in any way if we want to solve our problems.
What is most interesting is the revelation that even if we get the casino, that is not going to be considered the savior fix they had hoped for. Now on to real solutions!
Keith Langley IS responsible for his watch. Those who went before him have already been held responsible. This crew must face the music in 2015. I believe that East Greenbush voters are now wise enough to judge all candidates on their qualifications and performance.
DeleteKeith didn't hire Phillips for his honesty, Keith stumbeled into it and still doesn't understand what happened the other night.
@ 9:08 am- I agree with much of what you say. The George Phillips appointment is a good one. But it is important to remember that for two years prior to the Phillips appointment, Keith Langley served as the Chief Financial Officer of the Town and did absolutely nothing to investigate and address the Town's Financial issues. Mr. Langley was simply a do nothing go along politician. If these problems had been addressed in an open and transparent manner perhaps the future burden to the Town's taxpayers might have been lessened.
DeleteWhile I'm very happy that Mr. Langley agreed to appoint Mr. Phillips as Town Comprtoller on the Recommendation of CP Mary Ann Matters and CFAC Chair Maura Ryan, I am very upset and angry that Mr. Langley refused to publicize these issues during his first two years in office.
Mr Langley's record of neglect and inaction should be rejected on election day.
Check sponsor and seconds on the following from the 10/16/13 TB Meeting:
Delete156-2013 Resolution Adopting a Deficit Fund Balance Elimination Plan
157-2013 Implementing Portions of the Town of East Greenbush Deficit Fund Balance Elimination Plan
158-2013 Authorization to Solicit Proposals to Conduct a Full Audit for Fiscal Years 2013, 2014 and 2015
No wonder Bruen is such a mess. The town couldn't figure out its own problems so the committees stole money from Bruen to enrich themselves just like the town leaders were doing.
ReplyDeleteI raised the issues of consulting costs and overtime at this meeting and was basically told that nothing could be done about either issue. In a prior life I spent 12 years as Director of Research and Technical Assistance for the NYS Office of Community Development. 'Technical assistance' refers to the consulting services we provided for 300 community based not for profit local housing corporations. In this role I hired consultants, approved consulting contracts, coordinated the provision of consulting services, and organized and moderated conferences and workshops. I worked with dozens of consulting firms and managed more than $2 million in consulting contracts. Here's what I learned about the 'art' of consulting for government entities:
ReplyDeleteConsultants start from the answer you want them to find and then organize their research to make you happy. They supply a rationale for decisions already made. The prime example of this for EG is the wastewater treatment plant. The county option was denigrated from the start, inflated assumptions were used to measure county costs, and no one from the county was invited into the process to fairly represent that option. As Phil Malone said "we want control of this process" and our consultants fell in line and decided that was the best way to go.
Consultants build significant hidden costs into every aspect of their work. The idea that you don't have to pay benefits and pension credits when you hire consultants is false. Those and other overhead costs are built into their hourly fee. On an hourly basis, hiring one consultant is wildly more expensive than hiring one staff person.
Conclusions are slanted to create additional work that only that consultant can provide. The first law of consulting firms is to maintain and perpetuate themselves and they do this by creating the appearance that they are indispensable. This is why I recommended to Keith Langley that we prohibit consultants from getting contracts on projects that they recommended in the first place. He said this wasn't an issue because these firms are 'professional.' In the world of consulting being 'professional' means knowing how to frame your recommendations so that only you are equipped to do the recommended work.
Consulting firms feast on government because they know politicians have little or no technical expertise but love the appearance of making decisions based on hard technical facts. Since we have no in-house planning, engineering or architectural expertise we can be (and have been) picked clean by a wide array of consultants.
The Supervisor's conclusion that our consulting costs are exactly what they should be was extremely naïve. If properly managed, we could drastically cut consulting costs. This same inability to think outside the box plagues every aspect of financial management in this town. Langley has maintained the basic financial structure that killed us in the first place and believes that if he cleans things up a little he's done a good job. His goal is to do better than the democrats did. Our finances are a disaster and costs are going to skyrocket in the near future. Setting the bar this low only prolongs the agony and keeps us barreling towards the abyss.
Intuitively, the citizens of EG sensed a cover up regarding town finances, just like we sensed the back room dirty dealings regarding the casino project. Citizens should not have to "have a hunch or an intuition" about the dealings within town hall. We have been operating without any direct information from our town leaders (and I use the term leaders facetiously). The town finances are in complete chaos which, in my opinion, allows people to divert large sums of money into their own purses.
ReplyDeleteThis patient is hemorrhaging and we have town officials trying to stem the bleeding using a few bandaids. They are in way over their heads. Frankly, I think we need the state to step in and takeover.
Thank goodness for this latest meeting on the town's finances. It tells us that our citizen hunches were right on. Unfortunately though, the information shows that the problems are as bad, if not worse, than we hoped.
Especially troubling is George Phillips' comment, "Now, let me go back to ambulance district because I have something we need to correct here. The Ambulance District, I need to correct that for the board and for the public in the sense that I thought we had about a quarter of a million dollars of fund balance there, but what I found out in working through and looking all the records through with Bruen, as far as their transactions, is that the prior comptroller in November did a transaction of just over a quarter of a million dollars of wire transfers to Bruen and never posted them, so when I was trying to post against bank statements, I didn’t have a check, I had a wire, I had a (inaudible) agency and a fund balance reconciliation and in looking at their books and comparing the two between us I have now concluded that we’ve got a fund balance most likely that’s dropping by a quarter of a million there."
This is a swing of 1/2 million dollars (from $250K in the black to $250 into the red) in just that one statement. And the former comptroller NEVER POSTED the transaction? This deals only with the Bruen problem. We know that there's also a huge problem with the highway and sewer funds.
Stop the bleeding and stop the madness. Our town officials can't handle a financial clean up, let alone basic day-to-day payables and receivables. We need the NYS OSC to take over.
Part of the problem is that OSC can be politicized too. One hundred forty pages of FOILed material was sent to OSC a few years ago about some of what was going on, and it sat unacknowledged for nine months. When it was finally addressed is was done in an "appendix" and not included in the scope of the audit and therefore not subjected to government audit standards. Had the material been audited according to the standards, OSC would have been required to refer some activity to law enforcement. That could have begun the necessary clean-up. But Mr. DiNapoli was not going to have his fingerprints on directly bringing down a Dem administration. Some of that same material was in Andy Cuomo's AG Public Integrity Office too, and was not addressed. The only thing that will stop this mischief is the light of day.
DeleteInteresting, Rensselaer has a plan that includes a what if scenario of getting a casino, and a what if if they don't get a casino.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.timesunion.com/local/article/Rensselaer-works-to-rebuild-downtown-5880895.php?cmpid=twitter
As if having an actual plan is a new thing in East Greenbush...that being said, what is our plan even IF we were to get a casino? Does this administration expect the developers to take control of our town finances to solve everything? There is no talk about IF we get a casino and there is no talk about if we do NOT get a casino. It's just absurd that our town is still functioning as if we were still in the 20th century.
CORRECTION TO MY LAST POST: In re-reading George Phillips' statement, I see that the $250K is a DROP and not a SWING so the account "only" was overstated by $250K.
ReplyDeleteLangley had every manner of help available to him. His arrogance and paranoia prevented him from availing himself to that assistance.
ReplyDeleteThe CFAC could have been useful in addressing our financial crisis but as a political organ the CFAC was, and is, as useless as you know what.
Who is to blame does not matter one bit. Accepting reality, creating a plan, executing with excellence and delivering results is all that matters. But those notions are so far beyond Langley, Malone, Mangold and DiMartino as to be absolutely ridiculous.
Supervisor Langley has been openly and repeatedly criticized for his secretiveness with the residents. Going into an election year in 2015, Mr. Langley needs to turn that perception around. So, I imagine that he said to George Phillips, tell 'em everything so that I can tout myself as "open and transparent" on the campaign trail next year. Thing is, he thought he was only breaking the news to the 20 people who attended the meeting. Come to find out, thanks to this blog, the only reputable blog in town, Mr. Langley had Mr. Phillips tell the whole town about the state of the finances. It's shameful that Mr. Langley would use a PR stunt like this to fool people into believing that he actually IS open and transparent, which could not be farther from the truth. Here is the proof of the ruse:
ReplyDeleteSupervisor Langley: “So this is very admirable because I think this is evidence of transparency that has not probably existed in the past because we have not seen these numbers or been able to really get a handle on what the actual inter-fund debt was and it has bounced around, I’ve heard in the over two years that I’ve been here, I’ve heard numbers jump around dramatically and this is the first time that we’ve actually been able to see it. I thank you for actually bringing it to a point where everyone can have a good look at what’s left to address."
Everyone can have a good look at what's left to address? Who's everyone? How CAN we get a good look at the numbers, at what's left to address OR do we just have to continue to take your word for it, Mr. Supervisor and the word of your man George?
@ 12:53 PM, Great post! There might be another explanation as well. As a result of numerous FOIL requests regarding the town's financials by a number of alert town residents, Mr. Langley will be legally required to publicly release this information in the very near future. As a result, it's quite possible that Langley was politically trying to get out in front of this issue by hoping to divert the blame from himself to his messenger, Town Comptroller, George Phillips.
DeleteNice try Mr. Langley, but it won't work. It may have taken awhile, but an increasingly growing number of your constituents are now wise to your feints and dodges to avoid responsibility for anything.
Keith Langley has been Town Supervisor for almost three years. Does he expect us to believe that he has not "seen these numbers" at any point over the last thirty five months? If so (highly unlikely), this represents misfeasance and/or malfeasance of office to the highest degree on the part of Supervisor Langley.
ReplyDeleteNot good Mr. Langley, not good at all.
Anonymous November 10, 2014 at 9:08 AM, while I agree with much of what you say, I have to respectfully disagree with the following:
ReplyDelete"But right now, like it or not folks, Keith at the very least gets the credit for bringing the reality of our financial condition to the table"
In my book Keith Langley gets not one bit of credit for this. The credit actually belongs to EG people like Jack Conway, Eileen and Tom Grant, Don Johnson, Pete Stenson and Dwight Jenkins (my apologies if I left someone out), who have been tirelessly paying attention and attending Pre-TB meetings and TB meetings for the last several years, raising concerns and demanding answers about town financial issues(especially Eileen Grant). The only reason this is now seeing the light of day is because to paraphrase a comment the Supervisor made several times at the 1st Budget public hearing last month, "we're getting pounded about this every single month at TB meetings". Since the casino debacle started in April, many, many “late to the party” people like me have also joined the original chorus mentioned above and the volume is now so deafening that the Supervisor finally realizes he can no longer simply continue to ignore the voices and has no choice but to deal with this publicly.
This post is exactly right.
DeleteI will admit pre-casino I was MIA at any town meeting, over the last 7 months however it is painfully clear that Keith Langley deserves no credit for any of this. While I will agree he is not the reason for our debt, it is the many people listed throughout these posts, the SEG group, and Mary Ann Matters who deserve the credit for bringing this out in the public eye.
DeleteLee, the reform and (later) gadfly movement was founded on the simple principle of asking questions to power. Nothing more and nothing less.
DeleteSo many things around town made no sense. Bad news - that has not changed one bit. So, we asked questions. Then, and now, we got goofy, irresponsible, nonsensical, often rude and nasty responses. But the gadflies persisted and the casino debacle has served to unite people.
I have always believed that if someone is proud of their decisions they do not mind sharing. Deception, changing the story, attacking people who ask questions are all tools of those who know their decisions do not represent what is best for the people.
Financial stability will not happen in EG until the Board supervises employees and all follow the law. We have "on the books" a Plat approval of the Thompson Way development which was signed by the Chairman of the Planning Board without a meeting, agenda or an authorizing Resolution. Do we let that pass without rejoinder? So far Supervisor Langley and attorney Danaher have. Where does the buck stop with regard to following the law. Keith, when are you going to fire and remove people who don't follow the law?
ReplyDeleteAnd that Thompson Way property involved in the illegal Plat approval is involved in the casino initiative. It's all connected. We got this casino abortion from the "players" on Thompson Hill. Duplex owners and Davis.
DeleteThe City of Troy understands their dire fiscal position is exploring every avenue to cut expenses. East Greenbush should follow their lead.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.timesunion.com/local/article/Troy-seeks-to-avert-deficit-state-financial-5884250.php
Hey Donny Boy, How do you feel about this post from the TU?
ReplyDeleteCouncil 82 says:
November 10, 2014 at 5:35 pm
I am doubling down on James Featherstonaugh. Close personal friend of the Cuomo family has to make him the clear favorite. I’m predicting two casinos for James and a good flow of thank you money pouring into Andrew’s Presidential Campaign Fund.
1) The NY casino initiative has turned out to be one of the worst public policy initiatives in the state's history. Not good for a campaign.
Delete2) As Alan Mann says, a casino in East Greenbush would demonstrate that the siting process was a fraud.
3) Should Andy run for Pres and EG get a casino, it puts the EG story on the national stage - the story of a bully and a political fix. And a community continuing to fight it.
4) Some of the land involved has some "difficult" history, what with that illegal Plat approval for Thompson Way last January, and officials who have been informed about it doing nothing.
5) Enough for now.......
I don't know how the Gadfly feels about it - but I know Anonymous 11:34 a.m. if you get a big kick out of Council 82's statement you'd better go back to whatever dictatorship you came from. Another slap in the face for those of us who believe in a fair deal and democracy.
DeleteWhat about it everybody? Aren't you sick of insider-dealing and nepotism and all of the other things wrong with our local and state governments?
And...there's NO WAY Council 82 , the REAL Council 82 would make such a statement !
DeleteOnly Eddie Haskell Gilbert calls the Gadfly "Donny Boy." Everyone knows that Eddie is Keith's lap dog. After all, he has to earn his $3K a year doing something, so making a total ass of himself is as good as anything, right? Why don't you work on some self-respect, Eddie boy. The "boy" in the room is you.
DeleteYou have to somewhat appreciate the comedy of the original T.U. blog post. (1) Gilbert probably thinks this is a credible post and people will buy that it is the real "Council 82". (2) Ironic "Council 82" discusses Feathers and Cuomo - enough said. Good parody.
DeleteIt's just so sad that the Gilbert/Langley comedy duo has turned out to be such a very bad joke on the taxpayers of East Greenbush.
DeleteIs council 82 the police department ?
ReplyDeleteGood to be back from vacation, Gadfly. Just catching up on the current threads. My Cuomo check was waiting for me and yes, I donated it to SEG. I hear a lot of residents are doing the same thing too. I totally agree with Lee's comment. My thanks to all the Gadflies for exposing the truth as to the financial condition of our town. The truth never backs down. Gadfly, how is it looking as far as Joel Ablelove winning the District Attorney Seat? Will you seek his assistance if he wins or perhaps a later response from you would be better fitting in this matter. Seems I've heard him mention in a previous election, he would have eyes on some particular matters in our town.
ReplyDeleteI am not being flippant or insincere with this question but...
ReplyDeleteWouldn't Quicken Books be better for the town's bookkeeping than doing nothing?
Seriously Mr. Langley and Mr. Phillips don't try to tell us you handle your personal finances with the same "who gives a crap" approach to elementary bookkeeping that you have allowed in our town.
Given the town's utterly incompetent level of basic bookkeeping what are the odds that there is rampant fraud going on under your very noses?
How about holding a special meeting, at a reasonable day and time, and having all the recent auditors give the public a summary presentation of their work to date? You can start with the OSC findings and build from there.
I am totally sincere and not being sarcastic. We deserve to know. We deserve answers with regard to OUR financial situation.
Anony 11/11 @ 3:46 p.m.
ReplyDeletePlease plan to attend the special meeting in the Town Hall, Community Room, on Tuesday, Nov 18, at 5 p.m. The auditors will be there to give the town board and the public a summary presentation of their work. The meeting should prove most interesting.
With the revelations of the Town's true financial situation, is Langley and the Town Board still pushing a 2015 budget with no tax increase? There is an old saying; " when you find yourself in a hole, stop digging."
ReplyDeleteCouncil 82 is Defruscio/Gilbert/Tirino's attempt at a joke !
ReplyDeleteCouncil 82 is the Statewide Union that represents numerous Police and Correction Officers. I highly doubt they would comment on the T U blog. Stupid Gilbert - he simply can't get any respect !
Dear Ed; you lay with dogs like Defruscio, you get the flea's !
Council 82 should track down the stooges who assumed their name and posted such an absurd comment on the TU blog. I think the TU should have verified with Council 82 before posting.
ReplyDeleteDear Anonymous at 12:40 p.m.: You'd be surprised what the TU does NOT do. First off - they don't verify the identity of anyone and they do not check facts. Actually I saw a post from the TU to one of my friends and it said exactly that. Of course the TU post was not from Council 82 or anybody legitimate. Just some fool who doesn't have the guts to sign his or her name, especially when there is something nasty to say.
DeleteKeith, if you really want to demonstrate an effort to be even a little bit honorable/professional, get rid of Ed Gilbert. He's an attack dog with rabies and he'll bite anyone who comes within reach, even the hand of the one who feeds him. Do you keep him around because you're afraid of him or because you can't find anyone better? I'm thinking that either one of those, maybe even both, is a distinct possibility.
ReplyDeleteDear AnonymousNovember 11, 2014 at 3:46 PM:
ReplyDeleteGREAT question!
Quicken Books is accounting software and is geared for the small business owner. Government accounting is very different from small business accounting and therefore, QuickBooks cannot be utilized.
Also, a Town needs an experienced municipal comptroller/treasurer because the accounting procedures for government differ from the business accounting. While I do not know George, it does sound like he is experienced and he is unraveling the financial knot.
In addition to the accounting record keeping and procedural issues the OSC found when auditing the Town, they also found the online banking procedures were not properly implemented and opened the Town up to potential fraudulent activity.The OSC audit states:
"Town officials did not adopt written policies and procedures for online
banking and, consequently, the Town has inadequate controls over
its online banking activity."
This OSC audit, for which there is a link on this blog, is an audit from accounting well before the current majority took office. This audit is more proof that the Town's finances have been an abysmal mess dating back to 2010/2011 and that mess was simply fed...and it grew to become a financial monster now.
AT, anything has to be better than nothing. And why hasn't every town board tasked every CFAC with investigating and recommending software to solve this mess? Isn't it simple to institute effective banking controls? What do you assess as the potential for undetected fraud? How easy, in your view, would it be for political insiders to never receive a property tax bill? Who would ever know?
ReplyDeleteWhy not do a full forensic audit? Why not invite the OSC back to both take a deeper look and to support improvements?
Why did the past town boards and supervisors so seriously resist even a mini audit?
How can any budget be considered even semi valid under the current situation?
How do we ever get our credit rating out of junk bond status if our accounting system is so screwed up?
Why is every commercial property tax assessment appeal granted seemingly without serious review or challenge? And how can those same assessment be so very far wrong?
Is an easier question asking what is run correctly and professionally in our town?
past town boards did authorize audits of 2010 - 2012 which were halted by Langley and Phillips.
DeleteCome to Tuesday's special board meeting to hear what Wojeski and Toski have to say. 5pm on Nov 18
AT has submitted a comment too long for one space. Here it is in two installments....The Gadfly.
ReplyDeleteDear Anonymous November 13, 2014 at 5:07 AM--anything is not better than nothing when the anything is the wrong answer. While I understand your frustration because I have had the same frustration for the past 5 years, when myself, the Gadfly and a couple of others began unraveling the unapproved stipends, the wrong software is not the answer.
Supervisor Keith Langley has sat in the Supervisor position for 2 YEARS prior to holding a majority and he did NOTHING to follow-up on the OSC audit--not a blessed thing. You're right--he could have and SHOULD have followed-up with the OSC. Rather, he allowed time to whittle away. Shameful and disrespectful to ever taxpayer in the Town. At this point, Supervisor Langley is equally to blame as those that took the stipends. Basically--he helped the drive the get away car by never following-up and allowing the first 2 years of his term as Supervisor to be a colossal waste of time in regards to recouping any of the taxpayers' money.
As far as instituting effective banking controls--in my experience and opinion, it isn't that difficult. Financial institutions, insurance agencies, most companies have a system of checks and balances in place to protect not only the company's money but it also protects those that have access to it. When a proper system of dual control is implemented, those that can access the money are protected from false accusations of possible embezzlement or down right stealing. According to the OSC report and from what I recall of the situation at the time, there was great potential for undetected fraud. Ideally, one person should have the user ID and another person should have the password thus, it would require two people to open the online banking accounts and access the accounts for transactions. According to the information in this post, last year there were wire transfers that were not recorded. It seems if two people, such as the comptroller and Finance Director or Supervisor, reviewed the bank statements to the Town's monthly journal and record keeping (basically their checkbook) that error would not have occurred. To blame the acting Comptroller at the time--they made a mistake BUT they were not allowed or given the proper checks and balances. Those checks and balances should have been implemented immediately following the publication of the OSC audit results. What i have just suggested are simple, common sense solutions that cost nothing and yet were never put in place.
Full forensic audit---expensive but you and I are agreed--at this point by all means that should happen. Too many hands have been in this cookie jar and we need a new batch of cookies!
Past town Boards and Supervisors resisting even a mini audit--I do not know and we are agreed again--that should have happened long ago. In my humble opinion, I think the Town maybe grew too fast for the past boards and supervisors and they continued to treat the Town finances as if this were a very small Town. They didn't realize that simply because everyone apparently knows everyone's business (Supervisor Langley is guilty of that--gossiping about everyone's personal and family lives, another shameful behavior), does not mean we are a "small Town". This small town carries big debts and big bills, heavy payrolls, and union contracts. It should be run as large business now and until that happens the town will continue to try and carry its financial weight on broken legs.
Dear Anonymous November 13, 2014 at 5:07 AM -- Continued
ReplyDeleteAgreed--considering a budget even semi valid under the current situation seems risky but the problem with that is we HAVE to have a budget. the Supervisor and Board HAVE to create and approve a budget for the new year.
Agreed--Our credit rating won't rebound until our finances rebound and those won't rebound until we get our finances in order. From what I understand George, our Comptroller, is certainly tackling this Town's financial mess and I give him credit because it is a Herculean task. George can use all the support he can get. it sounds as if George is forth right with the financial information and he certainly seemed to go over the books and as much of the financial history as he could find. The previous acting Comptroller deserves a thank you as well. he was thrown into a tenuous situation and did the best he could in the short amount of time he held the position. Also, it sounds as if the previous comptroller is very willing to work with the current comptroller to decipher previous transactions and answer questions---which is very nice of previous acting Comptroller.
Commercial property tax assessment appeals granted--I have no idea. That is something that someone from the Town would have to respond to.
Easier question to ask, what IS run correctly and professionally--YES! that is a much shorter list, at least thus far. One thing that is run correctly--billing! The tax bills and water bills sure do make it to our mailboxes in time!
Please know my responses are my very humble opinion. I have never received any payments or wages from the Town--not ever, not once. I was never on the Town's payroll in any capacity. I have volunteered for things in the past but I was never paid. In my not so humble opinion, I do believe with every fiber that Supervisor Keith Langley is a phony bologna. He tries to tout himself as transparent yet, until this last budget meeting in which George seemed to carry the meeting and provide the information, Supervisor Keith Langley darkened the answers to questions and Supervisor Keith Langley was the ONLY vote AGAINST the public speaking at ALL public meetings--a resolution put forth bu CP Mangold and CP Malone, Supervisor Keith Langley remained defiant and was the ONLY no vote for that resolution. Supervisor Langley, for the first 2 years of his term, did not a wit to recoup any stipends or any pension credits. As is apparent by the Town's finances we can ill afford the Supervisor's ignorance to any dollars and cents. Supervisor Langley has proven himself an obstacle to good governing and to try and paint over the past 3 years of his arrogance and ignorance to the taxpayers, AND OUR MONEY, is not possible. We all know Supervisor Langley is up for re-election next year and we all know he may as well kiss the Blarney Stone because he cannot paint over the last 3 years of his horrendous behavior and his negligence with some of his duties as Supervisor with a couple of budget meetings.
Thank goodness Mary Ann Matters is working on things and thank goodness Sue Mangold and Mary Ann Matters questioned the budget.
preboard agenda is online
ReplyDeletelooks like sewer rates go up 30%
water rates go up 10% - 24%
According to the NY Gaming Commission Website, under the Sitting Process drop down menu, it states "Meetings of Resort Gaming Facility Location Board will be public." Now, click on the November 10th session and you will see a two part audio file. It is only the first minute and a half and the last minute and a half. The entire executive session was not made public.
ReplyDeleteEd Gilbert resigned today. Mike Poorman took his place.
ReplyDeleteEgad! Is it possible that we were better off with Elroy? Poorman is a nasty, arrogant SOB just like Langley. Poor Langlost is incapable of surrounding himself with anyone with any class. Very disappointing replacement pick.
As I understand it, one of the Executive session topics today was about reasonable accommodation related to people being able to hear in the Board Room. This matter has been before the Board for at least 5 years. All they need to do is what other municipalities do. Put in a proper PA system. Not rocket science. But in this case, they've made it into an adversarial situation by hiring an attorney. Just fix it air heads.
ReplyDeleteNo attempt whatsoever at the planning board to accomodate people who couldn't hear. There a lot mumbelers in that group. My point is that it should be fixed for all meetings.
DeleteApparently Forrest Gump's mother was right---you can't fix stupid. Keith's choice of his own "mini Me" is not wise. Keith should have done a better job vetting his new Deputy Supervisor.
ReplyDelete11/13 7:04
ReplyDeleteThe whole intent of an executive session is to protect sensitive information, whether it deals with personnel issues or financial data that should not be made public. Nothing nefarious there. Prior to the meeting they announced that they would be going into executive session for the expressed purpose of discussing the financial component of one or more of the applicants. Nothing nefarious there. Not saying it is a system or a board beyond reproach, but this particular case was likely handled appropriately.
It would be more suspect if they went into executive session out of convenience to be able to discuss things that SHOULD be public. Something this town has been guilty of int he past. If they wanted to discuss things in private, they could have simply done that and not announced the executive session. Not everything in government is cloak and dagger. It just feels that way sometimes in East Greenbush.
Ed Gilbert's "resignation" yesterday should not come as a shock to us. This proves that Keith Langley is now, officially in full campaign mode, pulling out all the stops to get re-elected in 2015. We can only hope that Mr. Langley doesn't think for a moment that so graciously accepting Edward's resignation exonerates him for Ed's attack dog behavior since the summer of this year. Quite to the contrary. Mr. Langley sent Ed with the "play ball or else" message that he gave CP Matters. He also approved the EG Matters blog that embarrassed and shamed the whole town for months on end from July to just this month. He also allowed Ed to conduct himself rudely and inappropriately at town meetings and in front of the Gaming Commission Location Board. How do we know that it was actually Keith who is responsible for Ed's behavior? Because Ed Gilbert wouldn't get out of bed in the morning without Keith's approval. Ed's resignation only takes care of part of the problem with the bullying and harassment of those in our town who don't support the Langley administration. There are people who won't sign their name to a formal complaint or speak at the town board meeting because they fear retaliation later from the Chris DeFruscio hit squad. So, if you think that Ed's resignation takes care of your image problem, Keith, think again. Yes, some voters have short memories; emphasis on the word "some."
ReplyDeleteAt the pre-board meeting last night the town board and comptroller spent at least an hour to and hour and a half discussing how bad of shape our town is in. They discussed the $100,000 deficit in our water budget and the need to increase rates. It was explicitly explained, this deficit is real and we do not have $100,000.
ReplyDeleteThen the conversation moves to another potential resolution that will be brought forth at this upcoming town board meeting. Apparently we accepted a grant to build a sidewalk to no where, a $2 million sidewalk that would cost this town $250,000. Remember that deficit of $100,000? The most expensive sidewalk is to be built from the light on Luther Rd. at the YMCA/Library intersection to Route 4. Where on Route 4 are they to walk once they get off the sidewalk? Maybe those safe I90 exit and entrance ramps? Maybe on the shoulder of a highly congested road? Moving past the ridiculous location of this sidewalk, we don't have $250,000!!!! The best part is, well not the best part yet, Langley seemed OK with one of the options of putting it off until say January, which would cost us oh just $30,000. Let's add to the deficit idiot! To squash the plan would cost us...$150,000 to $180,000. Why? Because our bright town already spent some of the grant money....so being by far one of the worst supervisors in East Greenbush history (which is a feat) actually toward the end seemed to be OK with putting it off a few more months for $30k...heck, this has been on the table for years so one has to question how much money our town has blown in putting it off. If we had accounting standards one may be able to find out how much it's cost us to continue this ridiculous project.
Then add to it Gilbert finally resigned and our bright supervisor appoints a former town board member. I don't know Mr. Poorman, but it doesn't take rocket science to understand that when a town or business is failing, you don't continue bring back past players that haven't brought our town out of junk bond status and continue to do things as you did in the past!
Wasn't this sidewalk to be paid for by Fed EX ? One of those betterment fees ?
DeleteOn another note ...Is Mike Poorman in need of another variance for some kind of addition on Third Ave?
It was to be paid for by the state, to which our town has already spent some of the money....clearly not on a sidewalk
DeleteDear AnonymousNovember 14, 2014 at 8:47 AM: GREAT point!!!!! You wrote, "when a town or business is failing, you don't continue bring back past players that haven't brought our town out of junk bond status and continue to do things as you did in the past!" SUCH A GREAT POINT!!!!!!!
ReplyDeleteDear Gadfly, Are you planning to publish a transcript of yesterday's preboard meeting?
ReplyDeleteIf I had one, I would.
DeleteDoes the Ed Gilbert resignation as Deputy Supervisor mean he is no longer a member of the ethics board since he was serving in the town employee slot on the board?
ReplyDeleteI sure hope so.
No, ironically Dave Youmans resigned which leaves a vacant spot open potentially for the new Deputy Supervisor Mike Poorman which would take care of needing one of the members to be a town official. I guess time will tell, one would think he would resign from both, but one would also think we'd stop recycling through past board members to fill current vacancies.
Delete@ 2:15 PM- so does that mean Ed Gilbert stays as Chairman of the Ethics Board?
ReplyDeleteI asked Keith if Ed had also resigned the Ethics Board and he said no.
ReplyDeleteSo we'll no doubt get Poorman AND Gilbert on Ethics. DeFruscio just can't stop, can he?
DeletePoorman on the Ethics Board covers Lavin driving a bus on Town Time !
DeleteNo way Lavins brother in`law holds him accountable for double dipping .
Business as usual for this crew and Lavin screws the Towns folk yet again !
Eileen, Keith might be wrong. Gilbert was appointed to the position to be held by a town employee. If he's no longer a town employee, then it stands to reason that he's no longer on the Ethics Board. We need to hear it from the attorney to be sure.
DeleteMr. Gilbert could slide over into the Mr. Youmans non town employee slot. Then the Supe could appoint Mr. Poorman to the Town Employee slot.
DeleteHas Mr. Poorman filed his ethics disclosure form?
ReplyDeleteAfter what Langley and DeF have cost the citizens of this Town, you'd think they'd just stop. But, no. Still at it. Time for a BIG change in Town leadership.
ReplyDeleteJust based on what has come to light this year, I think we've reached the tipping point where a complete and thorough, outside investigation of EG town government is requireded. Gov. Cuomo and his administration likely can’t be trusted to do what’s in the best interest of all the people of East Greenbush, so the Federal government needs to handle this job.
DeleteEd Gilbert became a flunky, a political stooge. I saw Ed's transition over the last several years as sad, tragic almost.
ReplyDeleteEd drank the Kool Aid. Why? Who knows but perhaps his own political ambitions. Perhaps to be close to power.
Ed's blogs were disgusting in the extreme. Worse than Talks at it very worst.
But, in the end we learned everything we need to know about Ed, DeFruscio and, especially, Langley. And information,as the Gadflies have taught us, is power.
I always thought Ed was a person to be avoided who holds distasteful views and seeks attention and recognition beyond what is healthy. When he was just another neighbor he was completely harmless. DeFruscio elevated him to the rank of Candidate. Crist kept him alive with the County backed senate race, and Langley appointed him to a role in our government and, worse, took his advice. Langley brought us the Gilbert monster. Let's remember that in 2015.
DeleteWhat's new with the Maney/Hart bait and switch up on Thompson Hill Road?
ReplyDeleteSure looks like a 4 unit apartment building as apposed to a luxury home as intended when Mr. Polsinello approved this project as planning board chairman back in January.
Maybe the casino is really going to be a condo complex and that building is the "model unit" for the project.
What they meant to say was Capital View Condos. Our guiding light Phil Danaher ( Planning Board Attorney) is doing a great job. Not
Did you expect anything else out of the Planning Board Attorney? He's another one with puppet strings back to that county Republican operative we all hear so much about.
DeleteOur town continues to be in a crisis of leadership. November 2015 can't come soon enough.
ReplyDeletePhil Danaher used to be an attorney in good standing. Now we must fear that he is in cahoots with pro-casino operatives in the county and the town to turn a blind eye to the obvious, which is that he should have recused himself from this issue on the Planning Board since he is also a legislator who voted YES to support bringing a casino to our county. That means he's biased. He's also in up to his neck with the Plat approval shenanigans up on Thompson Hill. The SEG attorney should send him a letter demanding his recusal. He's tainted and should not be trusted to function in an unbiased, objective manner on the Planning Board where the casino is concerned.
ReplyDeleteDanaher and Crist are costing Langley any chance for re-election over this casino. Langley needs to drop this casino now.
DeleteThe "cost" is much more than Langley's re-election. The political insiders on the Hill and the political operatives in the persona of Crist, Hook, Gilbert, DeFruscio, etc. have cost our Town in dollars and spirit. Instead of working on real concrete solutions to the issues at hand, we've had a collection of "get rich quick" schemes worked from the casino side and the Town side. Time for the sleeze-bags to leave and time for the "insiders" to retire to Florida.
ReplyDeleteFeathers and Hook fit right in, didn't they.....
DeleteAll the Supervisor has to do is say no and it all stops. Why can't he see that? These people don't care about our town or our Supervisor. Not one bit. Supervisor Langley "say no to this Casino" and rejuvenate the spirit of our town, PLEASE.
DeleteFeathers has lots of money. Where do you think it's going?
DeleteI'm sorry but I have to differ with you on this. I don't think it will go away with a no from the super, this is all coming from much higher than him. It started right at the top of the state level by Cuomo, and has filtered down to the county, and than the town level. This is coming from much higher than Langley.
DeleteAlthough I no vote from him would drastically help the cause
How stand up is the auditors picked by our untrusted Langley? Honestly, do we think they are going to work magic or are they going to appease the town board? The partner was already held up in a two year battle with the state in a case where the partner and another law firm recommended their clients to conceal information so that their client's trust wasn't seized (because the client defrauded his investment clients), didn't work out for David. http://www.timesunion.com/business/article/Ruling-costs-nearly-1M-4368364.php
ReplyDeleteGadfly, What is this all about?
Delete@9:51AM I believe that the audit firm of Wojeski was selected by the Dems years ago and they were brought back to look at this mess because they were familiar with the books. I also believe that the Dems and the Reps are equally untrustworthy. Remember your misgivings about both the Dems and the Reps in 2015.
ReplyDeleteThe firm Toski was selected by the bidding process..
I don't believe that it is in the best interest of either firm to defend the town's bad acts. I think that there is a slight posibility to get some good, useful information from he auditors at the special meeting. I also think that there is a possibility that there will be a format designed to limit public questions and scrutiny if the inappropriate time is any indication of the Langley administration's approach to this mess. BUT even if the participation is limited, it will be an interesting night. It is impossible to discuss the town's finances without condemning the practices of all politicians from 2008 through 2014.
The time of the meeting is difficult for most people to attend. I, for one, work and cannot get to this meeting at that time easily, others have families that they tend to at that time. Why can't it be at 7:00 pm?
DeleteI think the special meeting is for the Board to find out what has been going on and to ascertain whether or not the audits can be completed or what info toski and wojeski can provide about 2010, 2011 and 2012.
DeleteWell, it all may not matter all that much because I don't think magically things were figured out from last week to this to be able to vote on much. More importantly, CP Malone may be absent again given he may still be away. This may make things difficult since we know which way DiMartino will go - Langley, which may make for interesting 2-2 votes on the resolutions.
DeleteSimple comment and question...
ReplyDeleteHow is it possible that in 2014 after an OSC audit and a continuing junk bond rating that McCabe, Langley and two town boards have not corrected the accounting system problems?
Seriously, how is that possible?
The potential for fraud cannot even be guessed at because the bookkeeping system is so grossly flawed. How is that even possible?
I am not being sarcastic when I say to every citizen and taxpayer of East Greenbush that I truly do not understand how such disgraceful malfeasance is allowed to go on. How is that possible? Can anyone tell me beyond the obvious complete incompetence of the last couple of town boards?
Dear Anonymous November 16, 2014 at 4:49 PM--Answer to your question is Occam's Razor--when you have two competing theories which make exactly the same predictions, the one that is simpler is the better.
ReplyDeleteYour last sentence, which is a question, answers your question--complete incompetence of the last couple of town boards. Gross negligence.
Anonymous 4:49:
ReplyDeleteYou raise important questions but the answers may not make you feel any better although I think there have been some positive developments. The first reason this has gone on for so long is resident apathy. People haven't been paying attention and to paraphrase Edmund Burke "all it takes for evil to triumph is for good men (people) to do nothing." The positive development here has been the casino fiasco because people are now awake in unprecedented numbers and that's the first prerequisite for change. Of course, this will be more of a positive if we don't get the casino.
The second reason this has happened has been the culture of local politics in this town. There are no ideological or policy differences between the Democratic and Republican machines, just different personalities. Both factions play the game the same way and for the same spoils. Everything is made personal so no one notices that these people couldn't manage a lemonade stand at a Little League field. The blogs play a big role in this, especially the ones designed simply to hurl mud and engage in character assassination against the other side.
The key to maintaining this system is the belief that when it comes to being Supervisor or serving on one of the boards "anyone can do it." If you have attended meetings of the town board, or planning and zoning boards you know the price we are paying for this one. To top it off, attorneys are appointed to assist each board but they're not there to provide technical expertise, they are party political operatives who primarily work to ensure that the boards tow the machine lines. How else can you explain having a county legislator who voted for the casino as the attorney to the planning board? Or having an attorney for the zoning board who claimed advising the members of that board on the technical legal issues of the casino application "isn't part of my job?" .
Our town board's top priority is not to serve the residents of the town. All decisions are made for the benefit of political insiders, their friends and their families. Town government here is a jobs and patronage program that benefits those who are properly connected. How else can you explain why our taxes are so high, services are so mediocre and yet our town government is still deeply in debt. You wouldn't mind paying East Greenbush taxes if the services were superlative and our town solvent but that isn't the case. As you suggest, the potential for fraud is huge. It's hard to tell whether the problems of our town government are the result of corruption or benign neglect, although I lean towards the latter explanation. Loose bookkeeping, rare and limited audits, and other financial practices are designed to leave enough slack in the system so that a job or contract can be made available to an insider or a relative if the need arises. Once again, though, the good news is that this community has been mobilized and for the first time we have a chance to demand better representatives and a more efficient government.
While Thomas Jefferson is often mistakenly quoted about big government, he did say, "The natural progress of things is for liberty to yeild, and government to gain ground."
ReplyDeleteJack is very right. Our problems in town can be most notably attributed to the apathy of the public. However, beyond that, it isn't apathy alone. It is selfishness and laziness.
We have become a town in which we have too many people on the payroll and too many people don't want to forfeit the benefits they receive from contributing very little to benefit significantly upon retirement. The entire stipends issue was designed to build up certain people's retirement contributions.
In this way, the few benefit at the expense of the whole in perpetuity.
The problem is not simply DPW workers, town board members, members of the police department or the fire and rescue companies, it is everyone with whom they are associated. Conventional wisdom dictates that you won't publicly go against your neighbor or friend and certainly not your family member.
As a result, the public gets discouraged and the main voting block becomes those who benefit from the system the way it is. We've become an elitist group of democrats and republicans fighting over the same table scraps not realizing that in the end, we all lose.
People who have been taking advantage for years, retire, move to the south with their $50,000/yr or more retirement from OUR system, and spend it there!
They bend the rules and convince their respective party to look the other way. It is not local corruption either, it is a nationwide epidemic. Look at the recent news of this Gruber guy. Everyone was duped into believing that Obama was a savior because they hated Bush so much, that they took on faith everything that was said about the ACA. Now we find out that they pushed it in a way that benefitted the administration.
If people stay home, if they don't care or pay attention, things will never change. Complaining about it won't get it done, people have to participate! It's up to you, not them!
Both Jack and 10:00AM make excellent points. Although (10:00AM) we don't know "we have too many people on the payroll" without the long sought workload study.
DeleteOn the bright side, East Greenbush voters turned out at the rate of around 49+% looking at the DA race results. Not great by any means, but better than:
- Statewide turnout of 34.5% (the lowest since 1990) and
- Nationwide turnout of 36.3% (the lowest since 1942).
Perhaps due to the Casino issue?
Pete Stenson
To Anon 10:00 AM
ReplyDeleteComplete incompetence of the last couple of town boards is responsible for much of the problem.
Based on your analysis, it is voter apathy that has been, in part, a catalyst to the problems of the EG governing body. Yet, it was voter participation that replaced Rick McCabe with Keith Langley and it was voter participation that replaced a Dem majority with a Repub majority and the voters see the SAME corruption and negligence. You state, "As a result, the public gets discouraged and the main voting block becomes those who benefit from the system the way it is. We've become an elitist group of democrats and republicans fighting over the same table scraps not realizing that in the end, we all lose." That is NOT completely true-- McCabe was voted out and the political majority was changed which contradicts your assumption that the main voting block votes for certain parties or certain groups. The main voting block DID vote for change and, in return, was slapped in the face.
Once the Supervisor and majority were replaced, the voters were still subjected to the same corruptions and negligence...it can even be argued that the replacements took the corruption to the next extreme (Mary Ann Matters excluded from that comment).
Which is why it seems the biggest piece of the problem rests upon the town boards and the elected governing body, NOT those doing the electing BUT those elected. It seems, unfortunately,complete incompetence of the last couple of town boards along with gross negligence peppered with corruption and salted with big egos that has become the biggest piece of the EG's problems.
3 articles regarding Hook. (1) was from early 2010 when the Crook tried convincing the press that Aqueduct would be a game changer for education system and that it would bring $300 million annually for the NY Education system. This was while he was a spokesman for Governor Paterson (one of the worst fiscal Governors of NY of all times). (http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/racino-aqueduct-raceway-generate-6-billion-gamblers-experts-article-1.196201)
ReplyDelete(2) was from last year when Aqueduct was on the brink of closure due to financial woes (http://www.crainsnewyork.com/article/20130829/BLOGS04/130829861/aqueduct-race-track-threatened-with-closure).
I didn't follow casinos as closely 4 years ago, but this was a highly criticized process. Many stated politics and money dictated the decision (ironic), one of those critics was Feathers, who Hook criticized. http://blog.timesunion.com/capitol/archives/22310/aides-once-it-cut-with-undesirables-aeg-was-in-the-mix/
You need to remember that for years power in this town was "negotiated control". The two sides would talk and work out "deals" for cross endorsements and who would get what positions. That's never in the residents best interests. That is simply politicians manipulating the system. When you have deals being cut, the voter is CUT OUT of the process. It's not just what that the boards did, it's that we allowed it to happen.
ReplyDeleteWhen they talked about Langley getting a cross endorsement from the democrats, it was to help usher in the casino deal and keep everyone on board. That can't benefit the average resident. If we as voters don't participate in the process, there is no other outcome than for us to pay more and get less and both sides have proven that they won't do the right thing given an opportunity to.
I believe you're right on target about the deals between the machines. That's how we got what's illegal about Thompson Way and it's how we got the casino initiative. And it's how we got the interfund debt and the nepotism and patronage and on and on and on. And no audits too.
DeleteControl must be removed from the "machines" who've made and are making the deals. They've both overstepped and miscalculated big time in recent years and it's time for a real change. A pox on both their houses.
When the voters do participate and vote for change they still get corrupt supervisors and board members that, may have good intentions in the beginning but, go sour and selfish over time. Rick Matters was the exception to that. we vote McCabe out and we Langley who is an arrogant, and not very bright, supervisor. Langley is an Independent, he is neither Republican or Democrat. We voted out the Dems as the majority and we got Deb do nothing DiMartino. Deb is nothing more than an extension of Langley's corruption and arrogance. She does nothing, she says nothing and blindly follows Langley like a simp.
ReplyDeleteWhat do you suggest? A third party? We tried a third party with the Reformers and it didn't get any traction.
What we need is a perp walk. We need a few of the stipend recipients to pay a penalty. Then we need Langley to see some repercussions from the Thompson Hill plat, which went from a duplex to a 4 unit bldg. We need Langley to see some repercussions from the law suit the SEG people filed.
Once the corrupt EG politicians start paying a price for their actions, maybe those that follow will think twice before they enter into dirty deals.
By the way.....a Third Party has never been tried.
DeleteThat"s right, Gadfly. In the end, the Reformers fell in with the County Republican establishment. And that didn't work.
Delete@3:58 there is nothing independent about Keith Langley. He was brought to you by Crist and DeFruscio. The man is incapable of independent thought. He is enrolled in the Independence Party (founded by Galasino) but in Langley's election to office he was rejected by Independence Party voters.
A "stop work" order went up on the "quadriplex" on November 10th. I just got word that a driveway was paved and fill was deposited since that order. Langley, it's time for you to "supervise." And it's getting to be time for a bulldozer.
ReplyDeleteThey were there Saturday afternoon dumping something there.
DeleteWell Gadfly hasn't A. Maney recently been over heard saying that he will get his way because he owns this town? That was what I heard last week.
ReplyDeleteMaeel needs to be stopped and fined heavily.
DeleteBuilding Dept. what are you doing?
I thought it was Keith Langley's Town. At least that's what Chris DeFruscio said after the last pre-board meeting.
ReplyDeleteThat is the point of an independent third party. It must be made up of corruptible individuals. Only then can we have confidence restored and return "ownership" of the town be restored to the people who live here. We can most certainly achieve this goal.
DeleteI hope you mean "incorruptible individuals." I think that's possible and have a few in mind. Hope you do too.
DeleteThird party or no third party---until some of the corruption sees consequences we will inevitably be stuck with corruption. It doesn't matter what party, dems, repubs or a third party---if their illegal acts don't see consequences corruption will continue to rule this town. We have tried to vote it out and it didn't work.
ReplyDeleteI believe that there are credible candidates considering a third party who will not fall victim to corruption. Have faith.
DeleteWell DiNapoli is advertising himself as a municipal corruption cop now. A couple of years ago he had a pile of evidence, but he sat on it for political reasons. We'll see what can happen. The Town Attorney is supposed to act when stop work orders are violated. Watch that one closely. We'll see whether Langley will "supervise" or not.
ReplyDeleteIf someone sees "work" being conducted at that site, the police should be called. Remember, our police responded to a target practice session a more than once a few years ago. It is the responsibility of Langley to make it clear to the police that they are obligated to enforce the order.
DeleteStop the work!
ReplyDelete6:32.....Reformers didn't "fall in" with the Rep establishment. The Rep establishment co-opted the victors in the last election. Have you seen any of the platform promises enacted? DeFruscio grabbed the Supe for a ride. The Supe had plenty of access to good advice, but he decided to go for the DeF. Go figure. Now he's in a great big pickle on the Hill for falling for the fairy tale from Hart/Maney/Davis.
ReplyDelete#1 - ITS NOT THE RESPONSIBILITY OF THE POLICE TO STOP THE WORK...THAT DUTY FALLS CLEARLY ON THE BUILDING INSPECTOR TO ISSUE AND ENFORCE THE STOP WORK ORDER. So ask yourselves, is Cherubino going to do that and go against Langley and his cousin Defruscio ?
ReplyDeleteI believe that it is the responsibility of the Building Inspector to monitor his "stop work" order and report any violation of it to the Town Attorney. I believe that it is then the responsibility of the Town Attorney to seek judicial remedy for any violation.
DeleteWell is the Supervisor supervising his Building Inspector and his Town Attorney to see that they carry out their legally specified responsibilities?
Delete@ 8:03 pm - Yes, if Joe Cherubino is the Building Inspector he is most certainly expected to do his job. If he no longer has the respect for the people of East Greenbush who expect him to fulfill his responsibilities, he should resign.
DeleteAnd make no mistake about it: Keith Langley's inability to supervise or inspire the employees is the root of the problem. No employee should be empowered to pick and choose among the responsibilities of the office they hold.
Remember Keith's management "style" at election time.
Take a look at the June 11th APPROVED Planning Board minutes where this was stated: "Tony stated that the process would continue withouth the licensed approval from the gaming commission."
DeleteSorry, I forgot to state in the 10:15 comment that this was Tony from the casino developers team.
DeleteGiven it's proximity to the casino, maybe the media would be interested to know that if this town can't control a simple duplex, how can they be expected to handle the largess of a casino. Especially since a board member's brother and a casino land option holder is involved! I'd call 6, 10, 13, 23, the TU, the record...
ReplyDelete@12:26 am--if you would call them than YOU should call them! Don't wait for others to do. Do it yourself.
ReplyDeleteYou are dealing with a bunch that is balking over installing audio equipment to help the hearing impaired. Ask Lee Cookson about that. How, then, can we expect the town to enforce a simple stop work order? The arrogance continues to amaze me.
ReplyDeleteDear @12:26-- Just to follow up... If it seems really overwhelming to take on a PR task like you discussed, put out a request for help on the project. There are people who would be willing to help out. It's a lot easier to take on a task if you have another person pitching in. That's how most of the SEG initiatives happened. Small groups of people took on a task. As you can see each of these small initiatives accumulated into an impressive assault on the casino fiasco. Your idea is a good one. Ask for help.
ReplyDeleteDear AnonymousNovember 18, 2014 at 10:30 AM--So true. If 12:26 am made a request for help many join in which is the point--12:26am should make the request for help. It seems easy to offer suggestions as to what others should do...rather do it yourself. By do it yourself I mean start the initiative yourself, ask for help, get out there and start a coalition to contact the media but at least start it and be involved! Don't yell out suggestions from the sidelines. That is all part of participating in this town. As one poster above wrote, "If people stay home, if they don't care or pay attention, things will never change. Complaining about it won't get it done, people have to participate! It's up to you, not them!"
ReplyDeleteIn fairness to Joe Cherubino, he in fact looked into the duplex on Thompson Hill Rd today after several of us on the road had heard that it was being turned into 2 apartments on each side, including reports from people involved in the project. The fact that the original drawings for the structure call for only one entrance door on each side only lent credence to the rumors when a 2nd entrance door on each side went up. Per my correspondence with Mr. Cherubino this afternoon, he has performed an onsite inspection, amended drawings have been submitted, and the original intent of the structure remains: single family double-unit townhouse. As for the fill going in after the Stop Work order was posted, this was a permitted action from the Building Inspector's office. Dwight Jenkins
ReplyDeleteThe suggestion to contact the media was based on the number of complaints here. A number of people were looking for the police to act, or complaining about the building inspector. It seemed as if they weren't getting any traction. The suggestion was for their benefit from what seemed to be their frustration with the situation. Either way, the point is well taken, if this town can't handle a stop work order on a duplex, what will they do with a 300 million dollar development? Now Dwight notes that there have been amended drawings submitted according to a building inspector who is rumored to have an option on a building lot up there, their future neighbor. I wonder if anyone has seen them. Why do they need four entrances to a duplex, when the entrances are side by side? These people do as they please. what's stopping them from treating it like a four unit AFTER they get a CO as a duplex? They can't even produce a plat plan according to Don. Where is the stop work order for that? Let it go, I don't live near there, I was just trying to help. Just remember, taking these people at their word is what got you into this whole fight to begin with. Incidentally, you say start the initiative yourself, it's the same initiative. The same people behind the casino are building that house. If you let your guard down with this "4 unit" potential building, what you will have is the land up there littered with multi-family dwellings, which it also is not zoned for. It's not the casino issue you're fighting, it is the abuse of the system by the same people who are trying to bring you the casino. You seem resigned to be ok with them taking advantage as long as it isn't with a cause that YOU oppose. Let them do what they want then. Either way, I was just trying to help. Your fight isn't even close to over. Until you rid the town of that kind of abuse, a do as we want mentality, you will be fighting these kinds of battles forever. Trust me, there is another major project right behind this one. It might even be worse than a casino. Because you can't imagine it, doesn't mean they can't!
ReplyDeleteExcellent meeting tonight until the Supervisor started to make it into a campaign event. But somebody took care of that. And DeFruscio, Gilbert and Langley retreated to the corner office.
ReplyDeleteThis "administration" has cost individual citizens tens of thousands of dollars to oppose a decision which was made in secret with the "insiders" to bring a casino to East Greenbush. The "tax levy" on the people who passed the hat to engage legal counsel to oppose your really dumb decision really has mounted up.
DeleteI thought Keith Langley came off as sounding very sorry for himself at tonight's meeting. It seemed as if he had a hard time understanding what the presenters were saying.
Delete@ 10:37 PM- I thought the same thing. Why didn't Supervisor Langley take the time to prepare for this important meeting? He should start doing some research and stop tying to wing his responses. The audience seemed much more informed. Langley was just mailing it in again tonight.
DeleteNot good Mr. Langley, not good at all.
I don't know who you continuely refer to as "you", but clearly know one on this blog is ok with being taken advantage of. If you know of a huge project coming than why leave it so conspicuous and not state what you seem to know? If you know of something just say it, dont start the "I know something but can't tell you," I think we've all had enough of childish games
ReplyDeleteDear AnonymousNovember 18, 2014 at 6:33 PM---If YOU want to participate--YOU should! Many of us ARE fighting the fight. Wake up! You haven't heard Don and Dwight and Jack and the whole SEG! WE, and I say WE whereas you keep yelling YOU, WE are fighting it. You want to coach from the sideline, which makes YOU part of the problem. Help US and stop yelling what we should do. You want to complain but than YOU should help US fix the problem.
ReplyDeleteSome of US are tired of people telling a group, that IS actively working and tackling the issues. Some of US are tired of being directed what WE should do by individuals that do nothing. YOU want to help, than HELP!
Dear AnonymousNovember 18, 2014 at 10:29 PM--Ditto that! Amen!
Gilbert retreated to the corner office? Why was Gilbert there? Didn't Poorman replace him?
ReplyDeleteGilbert sat in the front row with the Toski and Wojeski people at the meeting and afterwards he was closeted with Supervisor Langley and Republican Chairman DeFruscio. Is this appropriate behavior for the Chairman of the Ethics Board?
ReplyDeleteLast night Mr. Langley wanted to begin his re-election campaign by outlining what he hopes is his "legacy." It didn't work. Ms. Aiardo reminded him that his legacy is the casino fiasco which he and his insiders foisted on the community without asking. I'd add to that the rape of the Zoning Code which was done as part of the casino initiative. That needs to be fixed along with the financial management system.
ReplyDeleteHis legacy?! Surely you jest. His "legacy" is that of neglect and ignorance to the Town's finances. Eileen Grant has been asking for YEARS for the audits and nothing was produced. That includes Langley's time in office. In addition, his administration is fraught with nepotism. His involvement in stalking certain individuals is open to questions. Langley spends time on the job gossiping about a person's personal and family life and then appoints and continues to promote his deputy supervisor who is known to be the creator of the most defamatory blog in EG, after he was also dismissed from the Times Union blog. Langley dictated to residents who they could/can spend time with, whose homes they can visit and who they can retain a friendship with and Langley has the audacity to discuss his "legacy"?! Truly, that man is delusional.
ReplyDeleteThe only thing that has been proven to be true about Langley during his time as Supervisor is this:
ReplyDeleteSupervisor Langley is one of the nosiest buttinski's this Town has seen.
I cannot understand why amended drawings can do anything at all to minimize the illegality of the continued construction of the building on Thompson Hill. First off, the certification signed by Matt Polsinello is illegal - the original plat called for a single-family house. And why is the Building Inspector allowing fill brought in and a driveway put in place?
ReplyDeleteHow can it be that even if the East Greenbush site is not picked the SEQRA process will be continued? And by what entity? Wouldn't a new application have to be filed for a new development? Does anyone have a clue what is going on?
The comptroller announced last night that there was a tug-of-war with some unnamed engineering firms wanting to get their hands on money being used to pay off our interfund debt. They wanted the money for future projects. Apparently the Supervisor had to run interference. Did I her that right? How do they have the audacity or authority to question the comptroller's business?
The Toski and Wojeski people admitted they continued to charge the town even after they discovered that they couldn't work with the numbers or lack of numbers provided by the town. I also found out for the first time that a conflict existed with the Wojeski firm - a nepotism issue - and that firm should have never been hired to work on the town books in the first place.
Have you heard enough? Do you get the picture??
We must all rise up tonight and demand answers to these and other questions arising from the inaction of our Town Supervisor who turned a public meeting on the Town's finances into a campaign platform full of - well, you know what. It was an insult to those of us who had come to hear answers.
We will continue to suffer similar outrages until our community rises from apathy and votes these jokers out. We must also purge the zoning and planning boards of special-interest and political hacks and appoint intelligent thoughtful citizens who do now a thing or two about the process.
Someone tell me it is going to get better. Please.
11/18 10:29
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure what you know about these people, but you don't need to know much or be a rocket scientist to figure them out.
They are always on the prowl for the next project, the next scam or way to make money. If you take the time to look at what is going on up there, you will quickly deduce that the same people building that house are behind the casino. They apparently put up two million dollars for the property. There is no way they are going to or can afford to lose two million dollars so they will quickly shift gears and be seeking the next project up there if the casino goes elsewhere. It only stands to reason.
Therefor, I suggest that there is another project coming, no inside information nor am I holding anything back. I don't know, but it's a reasonable conclusion and given Langley's willingness to back the casino so adamantly, it's also reasonable to assume that whatever they want up there, he will do whatever he can to help them get, especially since he has an election coming up. Commercial was fought hard, so I'd be looking for multi-family residential especially since they just put four front doors on a house that is a duplex. I'd also be looking for them to convert it to a four unit after the fact.
So thank you for your cynicism, I'll keep my comments to myself from now on and you can fight your fight without any extra help. I'm sure I'm wrong. Obviously I don't have anything to gain by fighting them or I would. I was only trying to shed some light on an area your group may be overlooking. My apologies. Good luck!
Eddie "Haskell" Gilbert resigned as Dep. Supr. for two reasons: (1) the Supr. asked him to resign so that (a) his embarrassing behavior wouldn't reflect on HIM badly while he seeks re-election and (b) so that he could be freed up to do his dirty work, anonymously, of course, without being tagged to the Supr. and under his control. The thinking is that now, Eddie's just an ordinary citizen behaving badly. However, as long as Eddie boy is still on the Ethics Board, and Chairman, no less, it's an affront to EVERYTHING the EB stands for and an insult to every resident in the town whom the EB is there to protect. Truly, Eddie "Haskell" Gilbert must GO, and go completely.
ReplyDelete@ 11/19 12:50, thank you for elaborating. You have to understand the attacks many of us have endured, as well as childish responses. Please re-read your original post and understand where our cynicism came from, culminated with the comments and actions over the last 7 months. There were a lot of "YOU" accusations in your original post and you grouped us together as if our only goal is to fight a casino and we don't care about anything else. When that is the complete opposite of what most people are doing. While many of us are fighting this casino, our reasons for doing so are different. What we do agree on is our town's political state is a disarray to stay the least. With the comment "trust me, there is another major project right behind this one. It might even be worse than a casino," it came off as "I know something you don't know..." Please don't take offense to my cynicism, it's hard not to be skeptical being an East Greenbush resident fed garbage for the last decade.
ReplyDelete@12:50--Your comment of "Obviously I don't have anything to gain by fighting them or I would," is something you should think about. We all have something to gain by fighting and actively participating and that is a better EG governing body. YOU should think about that next time you yell from the sidelines.
ReplyDelete1:26 thank you! 1:47, like I said, good luck. You're kind of looking a gift horse in the mouth. My "yelling" from the sidelines does more to benefit your cause than you can fathom and a heck of a lot more than minding my own business. One would think you'd want all the help you can get no matter where it comes from. YOU should think about THAT! That's how people have lost elections, by not taking every bit of help they can get with thanks rather than resentment. Once you (and BTW you is also plural in english) start assuming others circumstances and nit picking because they aren't involved enough, it's one less vote, it's one less person knocking on a door it's one less person pushing for you silently. Keith Langley is about to learn that lesson. It would be a shame if your group learned the same lesson because you think yelling from the sidelines isn't helpful. Sounds to me like your group could use more people like me, not less. I'll say it again, good luck!
ReplyDeleteWait until democratic supporters find out they are contributing to a fund raiser for a party that is considering cross endorsing Langley! They should hang on to their money until they announce their candidates or at least wait for Phil to get back from camping so they can be assured to have one person running!
ReplyDeleteI have a different take on Keith Langley's campaign speech last night. It happened at the end of a long but productive meeting that confirmed what we already knew: our town's finances are a disaster and we can't even measure the magnitude of the disaster. The meeting ended with a fairly substantial set of closing remarks from the Supervisor that showed he's clearly in re-election mode. The way my take differs from others is that I thought the speech was a positive development. I don't care if it takes political self-preservation to bring him out his shell, it's about time that he's talking because he has an obligation to inform the public of the thinking behind his decisions.
ReplyDeleteWe still haven't heard his reasons for voting 'Yes' on the casino resolution. At the special (secret?) meeting Deb DiMartino, Sue Mangold and Mary Ann Matters read substantive statement detailing the reasons behind their vote. Phil Malone followed suit six days later at the regular board meeting. Keith Langley still hasn't addressed the issue. I disagreed with virtually every word of the four statements but they're the ones we elected so they don't owe me agreement, just the rationale for their decision. In the last three or four meetings, the Supervisor has started to talk. Last night's remarks could have been more subtle but we're all victims of our basic personality structure: Keith did it that way because that's who he is.
The subtext of last night's meeting is that there's no glory for anyone who's been associated with our town government. Langley needs to articulate his sense of why we're still in the crapper and what he intends to do about it. Then we can make an informed decision on his future. Personally I won't support him or any of the other three board members trying to ram a casino down our throats. I will strenuously oppose each and every one of them until they're gone or I run out of breath, whichever comes first. But you can't blame a politician for being political or worrying about his future. There's much for him to worry about, especially if he keeps thinking there's a silent majority who favor the casino. No amount of talking will make that phantom materialize. In the meantime we all benefit from his willingness to open up even if we disagree with what he says.
To 12:42 - You are correct, amended drawings do NOT make that duplex legal, but that train left the station long ago. I personally told the entire Town Board on 4/16/14 (it's in the minutes) that I believed the house to be illegal and I spelled out the reasons for it in e-mails submitted to them. But when you're well connected in East Greenbush none of that matters. I also agree- if the building doesn't get a certificate of occupancy as a 4-unit apartment complex, that is what it will probably become, de facto, at some point down the road. How to prove it? How to stop it? Hey, I live right next to it. I can't just waltz in there and do my own inspection. I have to trust that others are doing what they're charged to do. If not, we'll have to deal with that later. For now the building conforms to the Preliminary plat presented in 2011. It was always a twin townhouse and will be joined by 9 others just like it, plus 3 single homes immediately adjacent to me. Personally I don't care if the land is developed, I always said that, but I was also insistent that it be developed legally. I do not believe a rogue stamp from the chair of the Planning Board, in-between Planning Board meetings, using an outdated plat, with no Planning Board resolutions or Final plat approval, is legal. And yet it happened. So what to do? An Article 78 challenge runs about $15,000 to pursue, maybe more. Are you, or is anyone else, going to pay for that challenge? In theory the citizenry as a whole SHOULD pass the hat and pursue this because, as you say, it will probably just continue as we go along. The reality is that "we know where the courthouse is," but I also know how much it costs to get in the courthouse if the Town employees who are supposed to uphold the law refuse to do so. There you have it. Realpolitik, yes? Dwight Jenkins
ReplyDeleteYes Dwight, and that's just about the same thing that Feather's people and our Town officials said to each other in those FOILed notes about the cost of opposing the casino they were going to hatch on us. Short of the court house, the only answer I see is elected Town officials who cannot be corrupted and who will fire or not employ those who will not follow the law. The winking and nodding to the players has to stop. It's one of the big reasons this Town is in a mess. Perhaps THE reason.
DeleteJack--I both agree and disagree with you. I agree--one cannot blame a politician for worrying about his political future. The piece I disagree with you is regarding the timing of his potential solutions. In my opinion, I don't re-elect someone based on the last 10 months of his term; I evaluate his whole term. To base it on his final 10 months is synonymous to the tardy and negligent employee that cleans up their act the 30 days prior to their annual review. A re-election campaign is based on the politician's entire record, not his final 10 months.
ReplyDeleteTo me, as well as many others, the bulk of Langley's time as Supervisor has been plagued by financial ignorance and negligence, secrecy, and crude behavior to the public--that's a quick list. The last 3 years cannot be erased by the upcoming 10-12 months.
If he begins to take the right steps, while I would be glad, I would not trust him to carry through with that progress into a new term. As I have said before, trust is one of the most precious assets; once it is gone and cannot be replenished.
AT - I agree. Nothing he does this year can erase his record. I realize he didn't have a majority for two years but he still could have been a leader, proposed a financial recovery plan, and used the Supervisor's bully pulpit to move things in the right direction. Complaining about not having a majority was a waste of time. You have to figure out how to be effective. Then he got a majority and lost it in six months. Bashing Rick McCabe won't get him elected this time because he has a "record" of his own to run on.
ReplyDeleteInteresting and very long town board meeting tonite. The comment period was over 2 hrs but the show stopper was Mangold and Matters taking advantage of Malone's absence to pair up and defeat Langley's water water rate increase. Let's look at the political calculus. If Malone plans to run for Supr, he's going to become Langley's opponent, so who's he going to make his deals with? Who will both of them make their deals with if they're both running? 2015 may be quite the dog fight between Langley and Malone.
ReplyDeleteAT and Jack, as I have stated before and will keep stating the man has 2 less votes in this household. Lets just hope that someone with some integrity runs against him. Someone as Don said earlier, is not in with the winking and nodding crowd. I'm not sure when or where but this B.S. needs to stop!!!
ReplyDeleteJim_C-
ReplyDeleteHe has 4 less votes in this household.
Nobody cares who you vote for.
Deleteyou are wrong Anonymous at 3:48pm, they do care who we vote for. As has been shown by Langley's willingness to try and get the endorsement of the Dems.
DeleteYou stick to your story the rest of us will live in reality......We all voted for Langley because he wasn't McCabe we will do the same for the person running against Langley.
Jim C, I care who you are voting for, as long as it is NOT Langley. I would love to hear more people tell us the same thing.
ReplyDeleteJim C, I care who you vote for and there will be two less votes for Langley in this household.
DeleteNo worries DeFruscio will save the day.
ReplyDeleteWe've heard that both the Reps and Dems want a look at the anti-casino petition. Well it's been filed with the Gaming Commission and is a public document FOILable at 25 cents per page. They're both worried that a new voting bloc has emerged over their "insider" handling of the casino mischief. Both Party's have their fingerprints all over this fiasco. From Hart/Maney/Davis/Murphy/Wolfgang/Tuffey to Crist/DeFruscio/Langley/Gilbert.
ReplyDeleteThis whole misery which has been visited on this Town is the responsibility of the insiders of the two major parties. They need to be removed from influence. As Jack has said.....we need a new deal.
Jim C....One less vote here also! And yes, we need a candidate that is not in the wink and nod crowd! While these people are nice folks, they forget that the rules are for everyone to follow. No one is " special"!
ReplyDeleteAnother less vote for Langley here.
DeleteLooks like we're getting close to a decision on Langley's Legacy. If East Greenbush is selected for that Casino we can all thank Langley for this one or should I say no thanks.
ReplyDeleteCasino or NOCasino........NOLangley, NOMalone, NOMangold in 2015.......2 more votes.
ReplyDeleteGood morning,
ReplyDeleteThree more NOLangley votes. I don't believe Malone and Mangold will bother running.
Gadfly--why in the world would anyone need the anti-casino petition list....they claimed the silent majority outnumbered the anti-casino group so why do they need the anti-casino list. Maybe they should focus on their invisible silent majority list.
ReplyDeleteMartin Electric on Thompson Hill this morning! There is no Stop work order there, onthe so called Duplex
ReplyDeleteAT, they need the list because they never identified THEIR group. They just assumed the "silent majority". They don't even know for sure if some of the supporters that they assume are behind them, signed the petition. They are paranoid egomaniacs and control freaks. They need to see the list to help Keith decide if he can win. Keith wants to win to vindicate himself only slightly more than he DOESN'T want to lose. He's been looking for a sure thing ever since he got in, why stop now? He apparently is not getting his cross endorsement deal from the dems like he planned and needs to know how bad the competition is going to be. I'm sure a number of us can help him figure it out and promise him that dems will always support dems because it's more about their jobs than yours Keith and he doesn't need to wait for the casino announcement to make his decision. If we get a casino, his silent majority won't matter because they won't be any more vocal at the next election. If we don't get it, it's a statement that his silent majority never existed and he shouldn't run. Either way, as Don says, he's toast. But run Keith. Rick McCabe was equally as confident.
ReplyDeleteDear AnonymousNovember 21, 2014 at 10:54 AM--Absolutely! Needing to review the SEG list simply shows the "silent majority" can't be strong enough (that is if the silent majority even exists) to carry Langley to victory next November. Awwwww.......suddenly Langley realizes his arrogance and the last 3 years of negligence may cost him his job. Awwwwww.....
ReplyDeleteIt will be interesting to see how Malone conducts himself when he returns from his month long absence. This is an elected official who abandoned his post during the most important month of the fiscal year, November (i.e. budget season), making it certain that Langley's 2015 budget would automatically pass without a whisper of a town board vote of any kind. This is unprecedented in our town's history thanks to Phil Malone's unconscionable absence. Coincidence? You tell me. Could it be that Langley and Malone made another deal? You leave town for me and give me my budget and I'll do something for you. As I said, unconscionable! But what about when Junior returns? Will he be in hyper-drive campaign mode just like his new buddy Keith? Will he run for Supervisor? Would he have the nerve? Langley can't ignore the fact that he's got a huge problem with his majority. Will Langley and Malone be quid-pro-quoing all over the place to see who can make the most inroads with the voters? Will there be any other contenders for Supervisor making it tougher for Langley and Malone to score points. It's painfully obvious that Langley has been campaigning for sometime now. If Junior plans to run, he better hit the ground running.
ReplyDeleteSince his letter is in the Advertiser, and public, I hope Frank Coppa doesn't mind if I send it in to the Gadfly. Its content should have set Langley/DeFruscio and company back on their butts. Particularly if you consider the source.
ReplyDelete"The informal poll carried out by Save East Greenbush showed about 61% against the Thompson Hill Road site, 27% for it; and 12 % undecided. Representatives of the resort company scoffed at the results, calling them unreliable. This was certainly not a professional poll, although I think the way it was carried out was reasonable, and yielded results consistent with the general feeling for the casino in East Greenbush.
No one can state the exact percentages on the question. But after this much discussion and debate, anyone who still asserts there is no serious opposition to the casino in our town is either lying or addled."
You just might like this interview with a second-grader on the casino issue:
ReplyDeletehttp://vimeo.com/saip/review/112245588/41bdc8e942
Looks like Rensselaer is the favored site for the casino. The suspense is torturous! C'mon decision! We want to have happy holidays.
ReplyDelete10:54am, not quite sure I agree. I may be a bit too cynical, but there may be another reason they want it. These people play hard ball in a serious way. I wouldn't be surprised if they got the list and used it as a naughty and nice list. If you're on the list, good luck getting your street plowed. If you're not, you get a job!
ReplyDeleteDon't give Langley/DeFruscio any lists, databases or what have you! They will stop at nothing to contact everyone on the list in one way or another and try to intimidate them, maybe even go after them in worse ways. Safeguard everything you have. These are not good people!
ReplyDeletePeople here question if Junior wants to run or will run? If he's gonna run, he's gonna have to find another party to run with, cuz I hear the Dem's are done with him. he has little or no support
ReplyDelete11:21 at 5:58 p.m. The Dems determine their candidates by caucus, not by committee endorsement. So, if Junior can get enough people behind him who want him to run, he could pull it off whether the Dem Committee likes it or not. Study up on it. It's an interesting process. The Repub party requires endorsement by their committee unless a person successfully primaries another candidate, but that process is more complicated and costly.
DeleteI realize this is a late discovery but here it is.... In April both res 58-2014 & res 59-2014 involved the firm of Hart Engineering and both res' we're voted on by Ms Mangold
ReplyDeleteTo 8:33pm..... Send me an address to ask about a building permit for. If there isn't one, we'll go to the Town Board with it.
ReplyDeleteGadfly...It's the brand new green two story, two family house with no address. It was built on an unapproved lot not recognized or identified by a legal address. This project never went to the zoning board. The town board has nothing to do with it. It's a planning and zoning issue.
DeleteJust took a look at it. A "Stop Work" order was posted on Nov. 6th. Be interesting to see now how it got that far.
DeleteGadfly,
ReplyDeleteWhat's the location of the building? Who owns the property?
Looks like 1 Cooper Ave. is written on the Stop Work order.
DeleteHere is a look into some of the Hart's dealings, found this while searching some of their properties. Interesting enough, many of the LLC's and businesses come from 2 Cooper Ave., to which Jenkins Excavating is listed as an LLC from this address and to which has been contracted by CHA for Capital View. Thomas Jenkins is President - I don't believe related to Dwight. http://eastgreenbushtruth.wordpress.com/
Delete@anon 12:50, Hart Family Partnership, LP purchased on 11/19/13.
ReplyDeleteThe fact that Ed Gilbert is still Ethics Board chairman is an outrage that should be of great and grave concern to everyone. Mr. Gilbert is still authoring and administrating his own highly visceral blog. The blog itself is unethical on its face because Gilbert authors it under stealth cover of anonymity. Supervisor Langley thinks that what HIS former Depty Supr does will no longer be tagged to him but he is wrong. Gilbert is a mean-spirited bully and a coward who needs to be OUT of the ethics business. Repeated calls for his ouster from the Ethics Board have fallen on the Supervisor's deaf ears but, to be sure, this is just one more outrage will not be forgotten this time next year.
ReplyDeleteI would bet if the truth came out there are many illegal projects that have flown under the radar in this town. They had better watch out. Pandora's box has cracked open and is about to fly open.
ReplyDeleteNow we have to wait until December 17th for an announcement? Is this so all of the developers can get their ducks in order since no one seems to have to follow a deadline in this game!?
ReplyDelete