In September of 2010, the truncated Town Board (McCabe, O’Brien
and Matters), after several attempts to get it right, passed a retirement
incentive to allow 5 insiders to retire early with full pensions. The initiative cost taxpayers $500,000 – paid
to the retirement system. The initiative
was, by law, supposed to save taxpayers 25% of the salaries eliminated in each
of the next two years. The Board pledged
that it would save more. I believe that
there was also supposed to be a report.
We never heard any more about it, even though the question was raised
from time to time, and one “Einstein” suggested on the blog that the report
wasn’t for the people and that I should FOIL for it. Well, I did FOIL. Here’s the correspondence:
“Sent: Friday, August 02, 2013 4:12 PM
To: Keith Langley ; Linda Kennedy ; Kim Carlock
Subject: FOIL
Some time ago the Town spent $500,000 to fund an early retirement
incentive program for certain employees. One of the provisions involved
in that action required a report on the savings achieved as a result of
that early retirement action. Under the provisions of the Freedom of
Information Law, I am requesting any and all reports to any and all
governmental entities which document such savings. If such report(s) do
not exist, please advise.
Don Johnson
To: Keith Langley ; Linda Kennedy ; Kim Carlock
Subject: FOIL
Some time ago the Town spent $500,000 to fund an early retirement
incentive program for certain employees. One of the provisions involved
in that action required a report on the savings achieved as a result of
that early retirement action. Under the provisions of the Freedom of
Information Law, I am requesting any and all reports to any and all
governmental entities which document such savings. If such report(s) do
not exist, please advise.
Don Johnson
08/08/2013
Re: Foil
Mr. Johnson,
This is to inform you that we have received your request on 08/02/2013 for
Town records.
We have forwarded your request on to the Finance Department and the
Comptroller’s Office because these records are not in our office.
You will be able to obtain the requested records no later than 09/01/2013.
You will be notified by phone if the information you requested is available
sooner or by mail if they need more time.
If for any reason, any portion of your request is denied, the “denial of
Access” section of the Public record request will be completed in full and
returned to you.
You have the right to appeal any denial by writing to the Supervisor of the
Town of East Greenbush, 225 Columbia Turnpike, Rensselaer New York 12144.
Re: Foil
Mr. Johnson,
This is to inform you that we have received your request on 08/02/2013 for
Town records.
We have forwarded your request on to the Finance Department and the
Comptroller’s Office because these records are not in our office.
You will be able to obtain the requested records no later than 09/01/2013.
You will be notified by phone if the information you requested is available
sooner or by mail if they need more time.
If for any reason, any portion of your request is denied, the “denial of
Access” section of the Public record request will be completed in full and
returned to you.
You have the right to appeal any denial by writing to the Supervisor of the
Town of East Greenbush, 225 Columbia Turnpike, Rensselaer New York 12144.
Hi Don.
I wanted to let you know that we were unable to locate the records that you
were inquiring about. I know I said September 1st in my letter but I did not
take into consideration the Holiday. Have a good day.
Kimberly Carlock Deputy Town Clerk”
I wanted to let you know that we were unable to locate the records that you
were inquiring about. I know I said September 1st in my letter but I did not
take into consideration the Holiday. Have a good day.
Kimberly Carlock Deputy Town Clerk”
The Town Board(s) which were supposed to deliver on the
legal requirements of the incentive, have basically given the people of the
Town the Finger. As Mr. Malone would
say, “we’re the majority, and what we pass, passes.”
The Fiscal Advisers, the Bond raters, the OSC and the
Independent Auditors all have basically the same litany of recommendations to
get the Town out of the financial mess that it’s in. These include a financial recovery plan, a
hiring freeze, a workload analysis, a more intelligent budgeting process, accounting
software, etc. But just like no report on the retirement incentive, we’ve seen
NO action on the other generally accepted solutions to the financial difficulties.
There will be no relief from the financial stresses which the Town faces until
the people elected to govern muster the courage to stop the juvenile play-acting
at government run a grown-up business-like operation. This will take tough decisions in the
interest of all the people and will require abandoning the parochial Party
interests.
Dear Gadfly:
ReplyDeleteI see you received a reply from the Town Clerk's Office to your FOIL request.
Have you received any correspondence from Supervisor Langley regarding this matter? One would assume he would be interested in this issue, particularly in the context of Mr. Langley's responsibility for the preparation of next year's Town Budget.
I've got a starter for you. Put the Town Attorney function on a retainer letter and do away with the secretary too. Most of the Town's legal work (zoning, assessment, bond counsel, etc.) is done by contract attorneys anyway. And we'd save salary, pension and medical benefits.
ReplyDeleteIn connection with these 2010 retirements: some of the people who benefited from these sweetened retirements were also brought back as "consultants" (the assessor and the waste treatment guy). So, in those cases the taxpayer paid the retirement system to increase their retirement package (strike one), paid to have them return as consultants (strike two), and will pay their increased retirement for their lifetimes (strike three). This big fat OUT was pushed on the taxpayer because a savings was alleged. If no savings was realized, please tell us! We can pass a local law prohibiting participation in any future retirement "plans". I assume that all 5 of these positions were filled, right?
ReplyDeleteGadfly:
ReplyDeleteThat $500,000 of OUR money might as well have been pissed into the Hudson River. No joke.
The positions, and many more, were replaced and added. There was no even fake attempt to meet the requirements of the law and no savings - not one red cent - was ever achieved.
Frankly, the solar panels are almost identical. The town controller reported that any savings from the solar panel installation was at least 22 years into the future. By then there is no telling what maintenance and replacement costs may be. Stupid, totally irresponsible and stupid.
Taxpayers and voters need to (finally) understand. The town board plays games with OUR money to benefit themselves, their families and their friends. Do what is best for taxpayers NEVER, EVER enters the town board's so called minds. Never.
How long does it take the average citizen of East Greenbush to earn and to save $500,000? Seriously, how long? And with one stupid vote intended only to benefit political party insider that much of OUR money was blown.
Now we have the Commissioner of public works walking Democrat candidates around town preaching, things are fine, and that every town has debt.
ReplyDeleteI thought Mr. VanWormer was in charge of filling pot holes and managing the failed sewer system that we have to now completely rebuild.
Perhaps he should be paying a little more attention to what happens when we flush our toilets, as apposed to spreading it door to door with the Democrat Town Board candidates.
Anonymous at 8:10 AM, did you hear that a DPW worker used town equipment to mow down some Matters/DiMartino campaign signs in front of the Fucillo car lot? Yup, this moron used an expensive town mower to run over these signs that are basically cardboard held up with metal wicketts. The metal could have shot out of the mower and seriously hurt someone or it could have seriously damaged the mower when it got tangled up in the blades. We know that no one got hurt (thank God) but who knows if the taxpayers will now have to foot the bill for a new mower or expensive mower repair. A passer by who witnessed this vandalism of the signs stopped to chew the guy out and said he would file a formal complaint. These are the calibur of people being hired by our DPW. As far as we know, disciplinary action was not taken against the bonehead employee who thought it would be hilarious to mow down the signs. We need a new Commr. of Publi Works, one who can manage and control his employees. This recent action gave a black eye to all of the DPW employees, which is really lousy for them.
DeleteThat is TOTALLY disgusting! Whoever did this needs to either lose their job or be punished. But, of course it will never happen because the Dems run this town. ENOUGH of Dems vs Repubs. Start working together to fix this god forsaken town. So sad how politics have changed and ruined everything over the years. I know I am done supporting the current regime with the exception of a few (and they know who they are). Enough of the promises and lies people.
DeleteHi Donnie I think your time is just about up. No it's not a threat
ReplyDeleteCan you spell "g-o-o-n?"
DeleteHmmmm, sounds like a threat to me. That's all you desperatos know how to do, and always anonymously. So you're not just thugs, you're cowards, too. Like a common thief who wears a ski mask to rob someone. Come out of the shadows, Anonymous at 10:04 a.m. Do and say something positive, something that will lift people up, not tear them down. I promise you'll feel better if you leave the dark side and move towards the light.
DeleteI am getting more and more pissed off. Where does it end? Look around EG, look at all the houses for sale! Everyone wants out, but they aren't selling because no one wants to pay our ridiculous taxes. We've gone to board meetings, we tried to get involved, we vote, but we got so discouraged because nothing will ever change. Are people just freaking BLIND? So, what can we do? We can TRY to sell our house at an unfair market price and get the h-e-double hockey sticks out of NY. It's just so shameful.
ReplyDeleteEast Greenbush is a nice little town with an excellent tax base.
ReplyDeleteEast Greenbush is also a town run by lazy, incompetent and utterly corrupt politicians. That applies, for all you Talks lunatics, on a non partisan basis - although your majority cronies (O'Brien, Mangold and Malone) get most of the blame due in no small part to Malone's arrogant comment about they pass what passes.
One of these days voters will wake up. Is this the year? I hope so. Personally I would not vote for anyone supported by Phil Malone. I think East Greenbush needs to conclude the unhealthy relationship with the current majority by voting for change. And that, for damn sure, ain't anybody Phil Malone has hand picked or endorses.
Dear Anonymous 2:55 PM:
ReplyDeleteThanks for the excellent post. I am in a similar boat as you. Except, I do not have any confidence in casting my vote for anyone supported, picked or endorsed by EITHER Chris DeFruscio OR Phil Malone.
It's so sad the Political Parties in East Greenbush are unable to choose good leaders.
Well I hope people took the time to vote today, I know I did. IMHO we need to get rid of the majority it is time for a new majority, time to give someone else a chance, maybe just maybe they can change the path we are on.
ReplyDeleteDoes anyone know how the minor party lines were decided for East Greenbush? Does anyone know why Rensselaer County can't give the minor party write - in totals to the Times Union? Albany County gives the number to the paper. I understand they can't give a certified tally but they could give the write in total from the machine to the public.
ReplyDeleteReading some of these posts is just maddening. The Dems have been in control for over a decade! Councilman Matters had to run three times before he was finally elected, and the only reason he was finally elected was because he offered to work for free! Matters never did have the privlege of being in the majority except for like 10 minutes before Christo and Danaher abandoned their duties on the board for the County Legislature. Will we ever forget that? This town has been asleep to town politics for so long that we are now heading into bankruptcy and yet everyone complains. The taxes are too high! We don't get anything for the money we pay! Columbia Turnpike looks like a slum! Well, yes. When you ignore something long enough, it goes to seed. The curret majority is so arrogant it's disgusting. They're worse than McCabe ever was although I think he taught them a lot about how to disregard and disrespect the residents. My point is that unless people get off their duffs and vote these people out, nothing will change. It takes no time at all to vote. People need to stop being too busy to research the candidates qualifications to govern and to go out an vote. Screw the soccer game, screw mowing the lawn, screw cleaning the house. Welcome the candidates when they come to your door and take the golden opportunity to talk to them face to face. Ask questions. Get informed. MAKE VOTING A PRIORITY. The success of our town, of ourselves, and our neighbors depends on it.
ReplyDeleteCredit needs to be given to the authors of this blog. If Matters and DiMartino held the minor party lines yesterday it is due, in great part, to the information the authors of this blog have reported. Uncovering the illegal stipends and pushing for the OSC audit was accomplished by the authors of this blog. In addition to the sewer issues this blog investigated and reported as well as the whole host of other problems such as NO Code of Ethics, nepotism, and job creations. Informing the public, educating voters and dripping on the masses with facts and substance is the best way to win elections.
ReplyDeleteUnfortunately for Phil Malone, he deserves some credit for his people being unable to capture the minor party lines yesterday. His big mouth, arrogant attitude (what we pass, passes, the CFC's job is to get me re-elected, and comments stating the Town's finances are fine) are all reasons to vote opposite of his choices. Granted, he was not in office when much of the Town's financial problems began BUT he has only deepened the financial wound with tax increases, job creations such as Town Attorney secretary because that position was abolished the year before Phil sat on the dais and then he and the majority resurrected it, which increases payroll and benefits, voting against the Code of Ethics and denying the horrendous financial position this Town is in). Any loss of minor party lines by Phil's Committee nominees can be partially attributed to Phil himself. Well done buddy! Hats off to you!
If Matters & DiMartino were unable to hold the Cons & Indy lines than this Town has no hope of ever digging out from under the financial mess that has been created by the elected officials during the past 5-7 years or so. If, after the write-ins are counted, and Matters & Dimartino did hold their lines than there is hope for this financially God forsaken Town.
ReplyDeleteDear 10:28AM and 3:13 PM:
ReplyDeleteHere's a link to an article appearing in today's on line edition of the Times-Union, which you might find interesting. The article is entitled: Democrats question absentee ballots. Republicans deny suggestions of any improper actions in primary races.
The article features our very own Republican Chairman, Chris DeFruscio.
Here's the link: http://www.timesunion.com/local/article/Democrats-question-absentee-ballots-4804053.php
Now Phil Malone is trying to deny our town residents their right to vote. Shady absentee ballots, give me a break. Malone obviously lost the Independent line on absentee ballots and will stop at nothing in an attempt to silence the will of the voter.
DeleteI think we'll see when it all sorts out. I think it's important that the light of day gets focused on EVERYTHING associated with elections. If people get caught in mischief, it will help with the necessary clean-up.
ReplyDeleteWouldn't it be something if both parties got caught with their "finger in the light socket" on this matter? It's possible. It's tradition after all.
ReplyDelete5:06 PM
ReplyDeleteIf these allegations are true, this is much bigger than Phil Malone or the Town of East Greenbush (although Chris Defruscio seems to be right in the middle of this). These disputed absentee ballots could influence the outcome of elections on a county wide basis.
Time will tell.
To quote a friend of mine.....if this kind of thing is going on related to low-paying political positions, the corruption potential of such jobs must be huge. Time for the local boys and girls to wake up to what has been going on around them. Time for Crist and Wade to go after eachother tooth and nail.
ReplyDeleteGadfly.. You are absolutely right that Crist and Wade should fight this out. It is being said that this issue is being trumped up by Phil Malone in an effort to deny the residents who voted by absentee ballot to have their votes counted.
DeleteWith the close election results for the independence line at the primary Phil Malone must know how many absentee votes have been cast realizing he will potentially lose the independent line to the Republican Party.
It will be interesting to see how this plays out. I know if I voted absentee I would demand my vote be counted.
Voting is my right!!!
If Rich Crist collected 66 absentee ballots from the voters as reported on Channel 13 news, what guarantee is there that each vote will be accounted for? Didn't those who elected to vote by absentee ballot rely on him to make sure their votes counted?
DeleteI'm also interested in the 21 absentee ballots "collected" by East Greenbush Republican Chairman, Chris DeFruscio, as was reported in the Times-Union.
ReplyDeleteI voted with an absentee ballot and have been out of town. When talking to my cousin yesterday she said there was a problem with absentee voters in East Greenbush. Does anyone know who won the primary for the Town Board?
ReplyDeleteEverything is so spooky and quiet on the ballot thingy. Could it be that there is Dem and Rep DNA where it shouldn't be?
ReplyDeleteWord on the street is Bottillo is having second thoughts about running for town board. It's being said, now that Mangold's chances of winning her legislature run have dwindled, he would prefer not to serve with her remaining on the town board.
ReplyDeleteJust think of all the financial disclosure!! Maybe the Majority will re-write those provisions real quick.
DeleteIt would make sense , being they are both members of the same family, and working together at the family owned electrical business. When you think about it, they would be only one board member short of an open meeting violation at the company water fountain, if elected.
DeleteNow that's spooky.
Look, the Hart family pays a lot of taxes in this town, and employ many people. What's the problem with their desire to serve on the board and make decisions on our behalf.
ReplyDeleteOur problem is Phil Malone's attempt to suppress the voters right to vote, and using Ginny O'Brien's husbands best friend Wade to do Malone's dirty work.
Talk about a tangled web!
Here we go with "noblesse oblige." So your argument is that the more the family pays in taxes, the more they get to run things. Some argument for a Democrat. You should pay a visit to those oil tycoon brothers out West and compare notes. Human nature being what it is, "decisions on OUR behalf" usually get filtered through personal self interest. Just take a look at the "decision on OUR behalf" related to financial disclosure driven by Sue Mangold's self-interest which tanked the ethics code many months ago.
DeleteYou people are on a witch hunt. Why should she have to list her personal assets. It's none of anyones business what she owns. Sue Mangold always abstains whenever she has a conflict.
DeleteGet over yourselves.
You need to do some homework. It's not just about abstention, it's about recusal and all that that concept means. And nobody has to list their personal assets. It's all about avoiding a conflict of interest in which ones political power influences decisions which are supposed to be made without the influence of personal interest.
DeleteBTW what she owns IS my business if what she owns gets its pockets lined at my expense via a decision on a public policy or public expenditure matter.
Word has it McCabe has put the band back together behind the scenes with the same old players to help Malone get his candidates over the finish line first. They were all there Tuesday night and he was right in the middle of it all, acting like the Godfather himself. Here we go again, yippee.
ReplyDeleteMcCabe would certainly love nothing more than to become relevant again. Everyone knows that Malone has made things worse, not better, but why they think McCabe is the answer is beyond me. If it's true, however, that McCabe is making a comeback, then great. He will only make it easier for Matters and DiMartino to prevail on Election Day.
DeleteThe statemwnt that Sue Mangold always abstains on votes that bnfits her family members is patently false.
ReplyDeleteSue Mangold occasionally abstains. - and many times she does not.
please provide specific examples of where she's not abstained with resolution numbers
DeleteDid you go to town board meetings? Do you pay attnetion Do you give a crap either way? Are you just being difficult? Right after all that and in the very best tradition of our friends and neighbors on Talks you can kiss my ass.
DeleteHere's a link to the latest story in the TU on the ballot matter:
ReplyDeletewww.timesunion.com/local/article/Democrats-probing-vote-signatures-4813567.php
Dear 4:39 PM:
ReplyDeleteInteresting quote attributed to Chris Defruscio.
ReplyDeleteTypical Malone. Stop wasting everyone's time and count the votes. You and your people have put this town into such debt, it will probably take decades to recover. Now you want to obstruct the process, and deny the people's right to vote for the change they desire?
This town has had it with Malone's nasty little political games and, by allowing Wade to do his dirty work shows how weak he really is. Bottillo and Vallee will come to regret ever getting involved.
Surprised you posted 1:12 Gadfly. Thought you were better than that.
DeleteI agree with 7:28. If challenges are being considered, it is to protect the right to vote. If irregularities are found there is a possibility that an individual has had their right to vote compromised.
DeleteIf however, as I suspect, party leaders "voted" people who had chosen not to vote, a fraud has been perpetrated on all of who believe so strongly in the process. A thorough investigation is in order. I for one don't want our town to be brought down by people who have done the wrong thing. Lets get answers.
I completely agree with you, but I wanted to give readers an idea of the "milder" stuff I get here. If there was mischief or crime on any side, it should be exposed. I am also aware, from the way OSC handled the scope of the recent audit, that oversight and review can be "fixed." So investigations themselves can turn into highly politicized activities. After the last costly go-around in Troy, McNally is going to be under pressure to keep his blinders on.
DeleteOn the contrary....he's running for Supreme Court. I believe exactly the opposite will be true.
DeleteThis article by a former colleague on the NYS Legislature's Fiscal staff is worth the read. It has to do with performance measurement for municipal employees. Tim was a colleague of mine some 20 years ago.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.munifinancetoday.com/news/insights-opinions/is-performance-measurement-worth-it-189-1.html
This is beautiful . Malone is knocking on town residents doors with some thug trying to intimidate them into claiming voter fraud.
ReplyDeleteNext he will be blocking you at the polling place door on Election Day .
Good. I hope that any vote in question is investigated. @7:50, one man, one vote is one of the basic principals of our society. Any activity undertaken to make sure that our recent primary was conducted legally is a patriotic activity. I don't think there are any questions about citizens who presented themselves at the polling place. The questions are about political bosses presenting themselves at the Board of Elections with a fist full of absentee ballots.
DeleteWell said, Publius!! I wholeheartedly agree. I hope all absentee ballots are vetted and validated.
Delete7:50 & xactly who would that thug be
Deleteif you can't name him, shut your ie hole
Dear Gadfly:
ReplyDeleteI'm curious regarding the large group of voters that "needed" to have their absentee ballots picked up by political bosses. Why wouldn't those voters just get their ballots mailed to them by the Board of Elections like I did?
As I was driving down 9 & 20 tonight I was struck again by the eyesore campaign trailer for Matters and DeMartino. When the democrats had the same eyesore with their names on it, republicans complained about how ugly it was but I'm not hearing that now. In the interest of impartiality let me say that as far as I'm concerned both sides should be ashamed of themselves for making the devastated landscape of 9 & 20 look even worse. Just another example of our political parties putting their own interests above those of the town as a whole. Do the right thing and get rid of it. Some of us care how our town looks.
ReplyDeleteJack...First Amendment. You are welcome not to look at it. Now you want to deny people their right to free speech? You should be ashamed !
DeleteAnonymous @6:12am.....I think if you investigate, you will find that the sign violates the Town Zoning Code. At least it did in the last election go-round, and I don't recall any changes in the Code since then.
Deletethe last election cycle it was in violation of the code due to the proximity to the street. (must be X feet away from the roadside)
DeleteIt appears that this time they adjusted to position of the trailer and pushed it farther away from the road.
From Page 59 of the Town's Zoning Code:
DeleteC. Portable signs, vehicle signs, sign trailers, signs on wheels or similar signs placed on vehicles are prohibited. Sign normally appearing on commercial vehicles owned by the advertised business are exempt from this provision, except such vehicles may not be parked on lands not related to the business for extended periods of time for the sole purposes of acting as off-premise advertising. Any moveable sign with wheels, such as signs mounted on trailers, advertisements painted on the side of a parked tractor trailer, or similar advertising devices are prohibited.
Anonymous 6:12: Denying people their first amendment rights??? I'm interested in two things. First, the hypocrisy of complaining about something when the other guys do it but not when your crowd does. The complaint from the republicans was that the trailer sign violated the zoning ordinance. If so, why isn't that still the case? Second, the lack of concern for the sheer ugliness of the display in a devastated part of town. First amendment rights? How about respect for the law and concern for the aesthetics of our town? And how about political parties that only care about their own interests?
DeleteJack I said the same thing back a couple of weeks ago somewhere on this blog. I lean right always have and always will, but I think it is wrong to complain when one side does it and not complain when the other side does it. That is why I said something. In other words two wrongs don't make a right.
DeleteAlso I believe that it is against the law to have those lawn signs in your lawn for longer than thirty days. So anyone that has a lawn sign and hasn't bothered to take them down for a few days, and is going to leave them up until election time, is in violation of the law.
that's just the way they roll
Deletethey did it so now its our turn
and if they get elected?
This TU story on the ballot fraud issue just might be of interest to our loyal readers:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.timesunion.com/default/article/Democrats-challenge-just-2-Troy-ballots-4822525.php
Jack Conway--When the Dems did it, the Republicans also complained that the banner on the trailer violated sign ordinances, which was true, it did. I completely agree with you--if the Dems were scolded for doing it than the republicans should be too. If it violated sign ordinances for the Dems than it does for the Republicans. Please also keep in mind the Dems were not forced to remove the banner regardless that it violated the sign ordinance so, the Republicans should not be forced to remove it either.
ReplyDeleteApparently violating the ordinances and laws is the only thing both sides publicly agree on.
Final Primary Numbers
ReplyDeleteDiMartino -- 169
Matters -- 162
Bottilo -- 151
Vallee -- 121
Anyone know what line thd votes above r for? What ababout WF? And con or ind whichever isn't above?
Deleteand the source is?
DeleteThe voters are watching. These primary results are very telling. It has been a long time coming and the way things looks staring November 6 th Malone is going to have to grow up and actually begin to work with a new board majority.
DeleteHis self proclaimed dictatorship is soon to end. Maybe his mother will bake him a pie ( Humble Pie)
Do you think the Maney/Malone Machine is on its last legs? We'd be better off for it, but it might be too much to hope for. They have been treating governing like a game for many years, but I do wonder about any difference in style or content from the opposition. We've gotten a little content from Mary Ann and Deb, but I'd be waiting for a little more. There's a piece in the TU today about the level of corruption in state and local governments. I'll see if I can find it and send it to the 'Fly.
DeleteThe Maney/Malone Machine is on its last legs when Joe Liccardi and momma Malone are no longer in Town Hall.
Delete12:18, do these numbers cover both lines? Thank you.
ReplyDeleteTown lawns are a joke - an absolute joke.
ReplyDeleteSmoking in town park? A complete joke.
The noise ordinance? A complete joke.
Getting a ticket if you are politically connected? A complete joke.
Violating the law with political campaigns? A complete joke.
Building permits if you are politically connected? A complete joke.
Come on folks - figure it out.
specifics
DeleteGadfly, y print such garbage?
Gadfly, Jim and others, just for the record, I complained about the trailer being used for a political billboard. I asked at a town board meeting before the last election, about future use of the trailer for political reasons, and I only got a run around answer. In spite of complaints, true, the name or names stayed on the trailer. Even though I support Matters and DiMartino, I do not like seeing the trailer again being used for political purposes.
ReplyDeleteWas the last name on the trailer someone running for a judgeship? Jack, what was your experience when you complained about the political trailer with Mangold's name on it? Maybe others will share their responses to their complaints about political activity on the trailer.
The biggest change I've seen on 9 & 20 is the removal of that desolate gas station that sat there for years, at the intersection of rt 4. The sub-shop is a huge improvement.
On another note, the public hearing on the new, board friendly ethics code, ought to be interesting tonight @ 6pm. It's on the town's web-site, check it out. Too bad last month, Mangold, O'Brien and Malone voted no on a resolution for a public hearing on the original ethics draft. Was it you Jack, who spoke up and urged the board to allow a public hearing on both ethics code drafts? How can we compare which one will best serve the residents of our community?
The excuses for voting no, for a public hearing on the original ethics draft, have no solid footing in my opinion. If there are no substantial changes in the new ethics code, why not vent the original draft to the public also?
I can really connect with you Jim, in your frustrations. I only want the right thing to be done, regardless of party. I've said before, why not have the best ethic's code for our town? If every elected official does their duty with the utmost integrity, there is no reason to reject the best.
I might also add, that if a board member plans on acting in an unmannerly fashion at a town board meeting, please give notice ahead of time, so that I may take my leave. Respectfully, Bonnie L.
I could not care less about the sign on THE trailer. The owner can do as he pleases with HIS trailer. It is about time people stopped being so petty.
ReplyDeleteI'd say you're right....as long as what he does with HIS trailer is within the LAW - which it DOESN'T appear to be.
ReplyDeleteSome people can never be happy. Before you complain, find out if what is being done is legal. If it isn't, do something about it.
ReplyDeleteHeavens, I think Mr Matters has been through enough. Now, we hear the whiners complaining about the trailer. GROW UP!
What is it that you think Mr. Matters has "been through". He brought this on himself. He did the wrong thing, got caught, went to the court for more and got what he asked for. All of this is of his own doing.
DeleteYou also seem to think that asking about Ms. Matters signs is somehow a reflection on Mr. Matters. I would like to suggest that Ms. Matters should run for office on her own, and not as some kind of a tandem with her husband. We would be depending on her, not him, if she were to be elected.
To 8:43 and 9:45 above - Please read the text below. I printed it yesterday, but perhaps you didn't see it. I believe that it is the portion of the Town Code which was cited during the last election go-round related to signs on vehicles, and that trailer in particular. Seems that this paragraph is pretty clear.
ReplyDeleteFrom Page 59 of the Town's Zoning Code:
C. Portable signs, vehicle signs, sign trailers, signs on wheels or similar signs placed on vehicles are prohibited. Sign normally appearing on commercial vehicles owned by the advertised business are exempt from this provision, except such vehicles may not be parked on lands not related to the business for extended periods of time for the sole purposes of acting as off-premise advertising. Any moveable sign with wheels, such as signs mounted on trailers, advertisements painted on the side of a parked tractor trailer, or similar advertising devices are prohibited.
And of course that means Larry Lenartz's truck with the Langley signs in it along Route 4 by the Hideaway. Not just Mary Pat Donnelly- but of course Keith Langley , Fiacco and Ed Gilbert as well ! Its so nice to see Dwight blame a democrat when his own family openly violated the very same ordinance! Of course whatever Defruscio does is expected to be accepted - NO ??
DeleteWhat's Dwight got to do with this and what part of the sign ordinance are you referring to??? Bumper stickers?
DeleteLast year Margaret "Mary Pat Murphy" Donnelly, in her campaign for town judge, used a Mangold contruction truck to parade arond town with a sign in it.
ReplyDeleteClearly in violation of town law. She was, and is, a sitting judge for God's sake !
The truck was observed very close to polling places. Did that violate election laws? Don't know - no measurements were taken but the damn truck was awfully close to those polling places.
In East Greenbush laws, especially for the politically connected, mean NOTHING.
And that, in the simplest nutshell possible, is 95% of our town's problem.
Until citizens tell these dumbass politicians that we are not going to tolerate their shennanigans the games will continue.
So, either buck up, attend town board meetings and express yourself or shut up and expect the political bullshit to continue. But do not think for a single second that doing nothing will change anything - because it won't.
We have proven that the only thing that causes change in East Greenbush is citizen activism. THE ONLY THING - PERIOD. So, get involved, get active or keep pretending all is well.
and all the JUDE MULVEY illegally placed signs mean nothing ?? The Town and public property , intersections were littered with Mulvey signs- did you forget or were you BLIND ??
Deletejudges are allowed to campaign for their own position
Deletesigns must be 100 feet from the entrance to the polling place and there is a sign marking the distance
anything beyond the sign is legal ... contrary to what Mr. Mulvey said when his wife ran
One of the bigger things wrong with East Greenbush is the number of people who think that two wrongs make a right.
DeleteI think ALL the politicians that do things wrong, that fail to follow the law, that make bad decisions, that put family before taxpayers, etc., etc., etc. should be questioned and held accountable.
I never said that Jude Mulvey was a saint. So thanks for bringing that balance to the discussion and PLEASE do not think that two wrongs ever make a right.
11:23 talks the talks but does he or she walk the walk?
Deleteprobably not
just a bag o' hot wind
So, either buck up, attend town board meetings and express yourself
very few people do this and those that do and comment here usually identify themselves
I do NOT care about a sign on a trailer. Is all this commotion being brought about by dems? Frankly, the only thing that bothers me is my very high tax bill. If Mary Ann can lower my taxes, she can plaster her sign all over my house. Matter of fact, she can even put a trailer with her sign on it on my front lawn.
ReplyDeleteLower taxes should be the conversation we are having.
We know the dems won't lower them, let's give Mary Ann Matters and Deberah DiMartino a chance. Let's keep more of our own money.
Deberah DiMartino and Mary Ann Matters article on page 3 of this weeks Advertiser says it all.
DeleteI am an enrolled Independent and cast my vote for them both in the recent primary. I wasn't alone, they won my party's endorsement and I will be casting my vote for them both once again in November.
Totally Refreshing!!
What I liked about the article was the way the Ladies not only said they were for lower taxes, they showed how they would DO it.
ReplyDeleteMary Ann and Deberah=lower taxes. It really MATTERS!
Deberah DiMartino and Mary Ann Matters want to lay the foundation for lower taxes, they want to eliminate our town debt, they want to work with our Supervisor for the greater good of our town, they want to eliminate our junk bond status, they want responsible budgeting, they want fiscal responsibility.
ReplyDeleteI for one want what they want.
Good luck to Deberah and Mary Ann on November 5 th.
The two candidates may want these things but I have a problem believing that they will get done. To implement these changes Keith Langley would need to implement and oversee the budget in detail on a daily basis. We have no evidence that he is capable of doing so and a lot of evidence to the contrary. He introduced a tax increase last year and is expected to do so this year. He is voted yes on Pete Stenson as comptroller. Pete is on record as advocating for an overide on the tax cap which would allow the town to increase taxes at a greater rate than currently allowed by law. Keith was silent on the portion of the nominating resolution that provides for the application for Pete to double dip and collect his pension and his $52,000 salary. If the town applies for the waiver with the state, we will be certifing that Pete is the only person fit for the job and that we are in an emergency situatiion. We recently held a search for this job and we know there are qualified candidates who don't need permission to doible dip and are available to serve but, as usual, no word from Keith Langley.
DeleteOne letter to the Advertiser in 18 months does not a supervisor make. Keith needs to come forward now, in this budget as a fiscally responsible leader to be believable. Keith needs to stand strong now, in this union contract for the consessions the town needs to be believeable.
I feel sorry for the candidates who may be well intentioned but have tied themselves to Keith Langley. What happens if only one of them gets elected? Do we get two more years of the inaction we have now?
If we only get one of them elected it will be your fault. I to am with 6:18 pm.. I support the Supervisor and will be supporting the DiMartino/ Matters ticket in November. How about those primaries.
Delete@ 9:31, You have not addressed my theory. I am questioning the all or nothing promises of the candidates. They make promises that depend on the cooperation and participation of Keith Langley who needs to do something to show he is fiscally responsible and able to govern. Lets focus on Gadfly's original statement at the beginning of this thread: The Courage to Govern. Between now and election time Mr. Langley will have ample opportunity to demonstrate his courage or lack thereof. If Mr. Langley fails and his candidates can't keep their promises without him, they should not hold office. If Mr. Langley's budget has a tax increase, we must assume that he will propose continued increases in the future, with or without these candidates. Remember he came to the voters last year with an increase just one year after promising fiscal reform during his campaign.
DeleteThe test will be whether Langley can separate himself from his (Dem water carrier) comptroller Stenson in the the formulation of his budget. Stenson and his "committee" and advocated and supported tax increases since he has been in the position - in support of the current majority. Time will tell.
Delete@6:18 and 9:31. I DO NOT support Supervisor Langley if he plans to increase taxes again without a plan to reduce unnecessary expenses. I DO support the Matters/DiMartino Zero Based Budget. plan, first articulated at the Town level by Cristo and Taylor in 2010, to keep our taxes at an affordable level.
DeleteDoes Supervisor Langley support the Matters/DiMartino/Cristo and Taylor Zero Based Budget Plan or is he just another tax and spend "leader?"
My hope is Matters and DiMartino are sincere and actually do want to at least hold the line on tax increases, unlike Supervisor Langley.
If this puts them at odds with Supervisor Langley, I say good for them!! Matters and DiMartino should be highlighting how they are different from Langley and Town Republican Chairman, Chris DeFruscio, not how they are in agreement with them. The Langley and DeFruscio way is the same as the Malone way, just with different self serving and self dealing people lining up to feed at the trough.
6:18 PM, I am with you.
ReplyDeleteSupervisor Langley is required to submit his next proposed Budget to the Town Board before the November 5th general election. Hopefully, Mr. Langley will decide against imposing yet another tax increase on our Town's already overburdened taxpayers.
ReplyDeleteIf Supervisor Langley does indeed propose another tax increase, it will certainly require Matters, Dimartino and the rest of the East Greenbush voters to make some important decisions of their own on election day.
can anyone tell us dimartino's and matters' qualifications and experience that demonstrates they can do what they say?
ReplyDeletewhat do they do for a living?
any practical experience running anything?
Langley may not be the greatest supervisor of all time BUT... taxpayers will never know what his potential may be as long as he is saddled with O'Brien, Mangold and Malone in the majority.
ReplyDeleteMcCabe, O'Brien, Mangold and Malone own an awfully big peice of the sorry state of our town these days. Voters removed McCabe for very good reasons. Now is the time to cut the reast of the Democrats loose and see what leadership Langley really has.
Matters and DiMartino are something of unknowns - that's true. But, that's also true for the Democrat's candidates hand licked by Phil Malone. Yea, yea, I know DeFruscio's no prize either - totally agree.
But I am all for giving Langley a chance to show what he's got by electing matters and DiMartino. Things have to get better and for that to even have chance of happening we need a new majority party in East Greenbush.
Langley has had 18 months. The chance I'm willing to give is for him to use THIS budget to demonstrate budget cutting, use his budget hearing to present his cuts and let us know that he understands the concepts the Republican candidates outline. If the Dems use their majority to restore the cuts, we will then have actions, not words to help us make our choices.
DeleteI agree that all 4 candidates are unknown. Perhaps we could prevail upon our community leaders to organize a debate.
To 3:41 PM One thing is certain, they do NOT deliver pizzas. There is nothing wrong with delivering pizzas, but please do NOT question the qualifications of another.
ReplyDeleteDear Carol: Candidates for office have presented themselves AND their qualifications for office to the voters ever since 1776. I think that 3:41 has every right to ask about qualifications and expect an answer.
DeletePete Stenson, in my opinion, should have been voted no by Langley and Matters.
ReplyDeletePete is not, and never will be, a fair and impartial comptroller. Pete is a spear carrier for the majority of O'Brien, Mangold and Malone. I respect his loyalty but not his choice of whom to follow.
The CFAC, with Stenson, as the chairperson, has been a complete failure. The CFAC has accomplished exactly nothing. They rarely meet, have trouble getting a quorum and have failed to post minutes for so long nobody even bothers to look or check anymore.
Pete Stenson is a nice man. But he will maintain the failed status quo of East Greenbush. This statement is equally true for anyone hand selected by Phil Malone.
Are Matters and DiMartino perfect? I doubt it. But electing them offers the possibility of positive change. Electing anyone else guarantees the failed policies of the past. That's just how it is.
Simple question:
ReplyDeleteWill DiMartino and Matters pledge to vote AGAINST another Keith Langley proposed tax increase? I'm sure East Greenbush tax payers would appreciate reading their answer in the Advertiser.
Dear 3:31 PM-
ReplyDeleteAgreed! But why in heavens name did Supervisor Langley vote for Pete Stenson as Comptroller? Seems to me that this is a pretty good clue that Mr. Langley intends to propose a tax increase of Stensonian proportions as part of his 2014 Budget proposal.
Hate to say it boys and girls, but tax increases are probably here to stay for a while. One of those mostly ignored fiscal reports from our past talked about the need for tax increases if we're ever going to climb out of the hole that last team put us in. Of course, some basic management of town assets was also called for, including a very careful hiring analysis, neither of which has been done as far as I can tell. See the following links for comparable area tax rates. Someday we could go lower if we were run properly, but unfortunately it looks like there's still room to go higher. Higher is easier for Town Hall.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.cdrpc.org/p_tax12c.gif
http://www.cdrpc.org/PropTaxMun.html#2012
You're absolutely right, Flyman....over there on Talks they've got their shorts in knots hollering about the Republicans raising taxes, when there hasn't been a year yet where the Dem majority hasn't raised them to fund the salaries and benefits for family and friends. If Langly can get rid of some of the patronage and nepotism fat in his budget and use that money to pay down some debt, he could do a budget without a tax increase. And if he can show that any increase is not paying for "fat," maybe we should give him the benefit of the doubt.
ReplyDeleteDear Sword,
ReplyDeleteI hope you are right about Supervisor Langley. The proof will be in his upcoming Budget Proposal. If Mr. Langley once again proposes a tax increase without also proposing spending cuts that include a significant reduction in "the patronage and nepotism fat in his budget and use(s) that money to pay down some debt" than I will no longer be able to "give him the benefit of the doubt."
don't see any quals, yet September 22, 2013 at 3:41 PM
ReplyDeleteanyone?
if mrs. matters follows rick's lead she'll not vote for tax hikes but every fee hike will get a resounding YES
Like somebody said before, put the Town Attorney on retainer (without salary and benefits, and just a contract amount) and get rid of the secretary (with salary and benefits) and you've got a piece of change to spend on something constructive. The vast majority of "legal work" is contracted out already anyway.
ReplyDeleteBut, alas, Sword, Supervisor can't cut the fat or explain the budget. He has proven this over and over again. I gave Mr. Langley a break in November of 2012. I have regretted it ever since. If he comes up for election ever again, I will remember his entire term in office
ReplyDeleteHere is the way I see our current situation - WE NEED A DEBATE to find out more about those who are running this time and to see if they have a plan of action with or without Langley and Malone. We can address those two in an election that is two years away.
If we don't get a debate, here is what we know right now. The Dem candidates seem to be thinking on their own and they both have professional careers to protect so they are unlikely to act too foolish to please party bosses. The Rep candidates, who are probably nice people, have middle management protected type jobs that are less likely to have exposed the candidates leadership roles and far less likely to be at risk if they partake in political wrongdoing. I am looking for someone who thinks independently.
Anon 5:25... You sound like you could use a good laxative. Sounds like you already made your mind up on who you should vote. Go for it.
DeleteOur town has been taken to its financial knees by the Malone's, Hart (Mangold), and their good old friend McCabe, the king of stipends and financial mismanagement.
ReplyDeleteYes, they have put our town on the verge of bankruptcy as reported by a "Wall Street Journalist".
It's simple, they have to go, along with anyone who aligns themselves with them.
There is no debate it's as clear as the recent primary results.
I'm for LOWER TAXES !
I'm for WORKING WITH the Supervisor !
I'm for ELIMINATING DEBT !
I'm for FISCAL RESPONSIBILITY
I'm for a MUCH NEEDED change
I'M FOR DIMARTINO & MATTERS
and cristo and danaher and matters
DeleteTo 8:06 PM
DeleteHere's hoping they can convince the Supervisor Langley to get on board with the lower taxes. I'll be looking carefully at the Supervisor Langley's upcoming proposed budget, which will be presented to the Town Board and hopefully put on the Town website in the near future.
which means your for a very healthy TAX HIKE ! Yikes ! Be careful what you wish for ! The 2014 budget will be just a test - the 2015 budget, if controlled by Republicans, is the one to watch for !
Delete6:29 PM
ReplyDeleteVery classy (not).
I'm with 6:29 pm.. As an enrolled Democrat my vote will stay home this year.
ReplyDeleteMy Democrat party has totally let the residence of our town down. For that I am mad and anyone with a shred of common sense should agree.
As for a debate, at the last one Sue Mangold said vote for me and I will fulfill your most wild dreams.
I did not dream of being taxed to death and having the town I love made a spectacle of by a Wall Street journalist, for mismanaging our town into the ground.
Phil Malone, and Sue Mangold should take a few lessons from our Governor, as for Mr. Bottillo and Ms. Vallee good luck. You will need it.
The idea that any Hart family member is independent and going to vote for anything except the Hart family interests is just plain stupid. The idea that any town board candidate hand picked by Phil Malone or Chris DeFruscio is going to be independent is equally stupid.
ReplyDeleteHaving sais all that..the town needs change. Matters and Dimatino with Langley offer at least a shot at positive change.
Valle and Botillo offer a continuation of Mangold, O'Brien and Malone's failed decisions and policies.
Some hope is always better than none.
Dear 11:51 AM,
DeleteThanks for the great post. As a senior on a fixed income, my major concern is taxes. If Supervisor Langley proposes a tax cut, I will strongly consider voting for Matters and DiMartino. If Supervisor Langley calls for another tax increase, he is than nothing other than a typical politician after more money from the town residents. If Supervisor Langley dupes Matters and DiMartino (and me) with a tax increase he will no longer have my support. I will only support candidates (like Rick Matters) who refuse to vote for a tax increase. Rick Matters has always considered the worries of the senior taxpayers. I like what I'm reading about Mrs. Matters and Mrs. DiMartino, but my vote depends on what Supervisor Langley does with his budget and taxes.
Langley will either flat out exceed the 1.66% tax cap - or - he will hike fees to cover h his spending. Take your pick.
DeleteAnd, I agree with 3:58 - its not so much the 2014 budget , its the 2015 budget to watch should Langley control the Board.
Remember, Angelini held taxes for 3 or 4 years in a row. Republicans have always increased taxes.
11:51 - Vallee and Bottillo offer what ? Thats a bold statement , unsubstantiated and very assuming on your part. Your other assumption is again , nothing but conjecture and a guess.
DeleteBut in the interest of fair play , I'll ask you this simple question: what has any Republican candidate done to improve East Greenbush as much as the Hart family ? PLease, think long and hard. Defruscio- what has he done? Really people, - think long and hard of your choice in November. Giving Chris Defruscio any say in what goes on in East Greenbush is a true recipe for disaster.
If any of you think that Matters or Dimartino are going to be allowed to think independently - guess again.
Good grief.....Let's just cede the government to Baron vonHart and Baron vonManey and Baron vonMalone and enjoy the inevitable prosperity which will flow therefrom.
Delete@8:06 are the primary results avaiklable? They are not on the Board of Elections website. Please share. County, too if possible.
ReplyDeletefinal count on the independence line
ReplyDeleteDemartino 169
Matters 162
Bottillo 151
Vallee 121
Thanks, 11:09-
DeleteWould you , or anyone, happen to know the final count on the working families line as well?
The town government is operated VERY inefficiently. Hiring has been done only with an eye toward nepotism and patronage. Will Langley draw a line on that? Not so far.
ReplyDeleteTown purchases are ridiculous. Vehicles have been bought like the town was fat, dumb and happy with money. Will Langley change that? Not so far.
Columbia Turnpike continues to decline. Will Langley change that? Not so far.
Overtime is excessive and unaccounted for. Will Langley change that? Not so far.
Despite those concerns and reservations I am still voting for DiMartino and Matters. I am certain they offer hope for positive change and I know perfectly well that Bottillo and Vallee do not.
I think Langley deserves a shot to show us what he's got in terms of leadership, goals, plans and perhaps even a vision for East Greenbush. For that reason I am voting for DiMartino and Matters.
If Langley fails to deliver on running the town properly, effectively and efficiently voters should throw him out of office when his term runs out. So, it is almost all about Langley and if he has the brains and the guts to be a decent leader. I am going to offer him that opportunity by voting for DiMartino and Matters.
Not so fast, 8:23. If Langley hasn't done it so far, he better do it in the month of Otober because because if we put these two in and they follow the do nothing Langley we know so well, we could be stuck for 4 years. That would be a disaster.
DeleteDear 8:23,
ReplyDeleteSupervisor Langley's upcoming Budget proposal will certainly give him a chance to show us what he's got in terms of leadership, goals, plans and perhaps even a vision for East Greenbush.
If Mrs. DiMartino and Mrs. Matters can't persuade Mr. Langley to submit a responsible Budget this year they will have been mislead by Mr. Langley.
I'll be watching closely.
Slip out the back Jack. Make a little plan Stan.... You know the song right?
ReplyDeleteOk here's the question.
Where's Ginny?
Hint -- Moved on to greener "PASTURES" !!
DeleteI've been trying to make sense of the campaigns so far and have had little luck in finding an emerging pattern. The republicans have certainly come out of the gate faster than the democrats but is this a timing strategy on the part of the democrats that recognizes that voters really only start paying attention in the last week or so of October? I think the Matters/DiMartino joint pieces in the Advertiser have been substantive and informative but I remember when the Cristo-Taylor campaign got traction on the stipends issue by appearing on Al Roney's radio program in September but watched as it lost momentum by election day. In politics timing is critical and the last word is more important than the first.
ReplyDeletein the blog posts it seems like there is a healthy level of distrust towards campaign promises with people wondering if the republican pledges of fiscal sanity and debt reduction will give way to the same old patronage and nepotism practices that have caused many of our problems. The democrats have been guilty of putting the interests of friends and family ahead of the taxpayers and the town but how many remember that brief moment before the lawsuit when the republicans held a majority? They hopped on the gravy train and rode it for all it was worth. Both blogs tend to fall back on partisan beliefs. This one features comments that under current circumstances we're better off with the devil we don't know than the devil we do know. There is merit but no confidence in that approach. It comes down to this: we're not sure if the republicans can lower taxes but we know the democrats won't. On EG Talks there is confidence that their candidates will lower taxes.
I'm looking forward to meeting all the candidates. I know Mary Ann Matters a bit and I like her. I met Deb DiMartino recently and thought she was very personable and had some good ideas. I haven't met Mike Bottillo or Cheryl Vallee but I know several people who know Cheryl and they rave about her. Mike's been on the planning board and on paper that looks like the most relevant experience of any of the candidates. At the end of the day I'm hopeful that the Matters/DiMartino pieces will set the tone for a campaign that focuses on issues and solutions rather than the mudfest that usually passes for elections in this town.
I'm hoping the DiMartino/Matters articles resonate with the voters in our town and gets them elected, and I'm a damn Democrat. As for the where's Ginny question, she moved to North Greenbush. The big question should be has she stepped down from her seat on our Town Board? Certainly our town attorney Mr.Liccardi should be advising here to do so immediately. That is if he understands the law he has sworn to represent.
DeleteJack... If you don't see an emerging pattern being set in this campaign cycle, well your either blind or just plain oblivious. Bottillo is related to the Hart family and if he wins his bid for the town board seat we will have two members of the Hart family voting on our behalf, or should I say their behalf.
DeleteYou being a champion of a strong ethics code for our town should surely recognize the blatant ethical conflict this would create. Bottillo shouldn't even be a consideration as a candidate. His candidacy is setting the stage for more bad government in East Greenbush.
What say you Jack?
Anonymous 6:42: At first glance it may seem like the Harts are padding the board but I think there's another way to look at it. If two members of the same family sit on the town board they will both have to recuse themselves on projects connected to their family. This actually reduces their ability to do the family's bidding. I realize you think I'm being naïve (or oblivious) in saying this because you believe that everyone and everything is crooked but if the new Code of Ethics is passed next month things can really change. Recusal means a member cannot be part of any discussion about a project in which a relative has an interest. Abstention means they can't vote on the project so Hart family projects would have to have minority support to be approved. It's fair for people to wonder if a Code of Ethics can be a real agent for positive change but I believe it can. Will it solve all of our problems? No. But can it initiate a process that airs out some of the dirty laundry? Without question.
Delete6:42 - you clearly are no lawyer. Your so far out in left field . Your opinion is noted , but your fantasy about Bottillo is nothing but fantasy.....vote Republican. Who ya gonna cry too when your taxes go thru the roof and fee's for services in town exceed your wildest dreams ? Langley has already gone on record to say he's in favor of a tax hike, which means Diartino will do as she's told. Matters will do exactly what her husband has done- hike service fees. Then what are we to do ? Who you going to blame then?
DeleteDear Jack:
DeleteAs always, thank you for your thought provoking post. I would encourage you (and the Gadfly for that matter) to have a conversation with Cheryl Vallee as soon as possible. She is an individual with a strong and ethical managerial background and she has a wonderful ability to bring people together and reach consensus on complicated issues in a civil and respectful manner.
Mr. Conway: I want to make an exception to your point about the republicans jumping on the gravy train.
ReplyDeleteI regret that did not keep the study I did on this very subject but here's the gist of it.
If you research the organizational meetings you will find that a number of patronage and nepotism positions were cut and not filled when Cristo, Danaher and Matters held that brief majority. It is very hard to do a side by side year by year analysis because one of the tricks played by the democratic party majority has been to change job titles year over year. They have also played the trick of appointing Ginny O'Brien's husband and Phil Malone's mother to lifetime appointments so they do not have to vote on those nepotism appointment every year and abstain and possibly embarass themselves. And lastly O'Brien, Mangold and Malone have played the trick of appointing family and friends to multiple part time nepotism and patronage appointments. All that makes a year by year analysis tricky but do-able.
I believe the number of jobs cut in the 2009 or 2010 organizational meeting by Cristo, Danaher and Matters was 9 or 10. I apologize for not being more sure but I did not keep my files. I know for certain that the jobs held by Liccardi and Joan Malone (Phil's mother) were cut and several more.
I am not counting, of course, that famous town board meeting where John Torino got up and argued so passionately for his share of the gravy train and that led to Meagan Hart's appointment. Quite a moment in town board meeting history and I would argue, quite a low point.
Perhaps someone who is from either campaign can go back through the organizational meetings and clarify this for voters. I am sure of the gist of it but not the specifics.
Jack--when the Republicans held the majority for that blink of an eye, who did they appoint and "hop on the train" with? I do recall Chris Defruscio--VERY bad choice and AGREED, that was complete nepotism which is hiring family or friends, but who else? They retained Kate Bennett and simply moved her to a new position. Jim Brieg has an MBA and financial experience and was much more qualified for the position than Kate. Tom Grant had his degree and was qualified for his position. The Republicans did retain many of the old regime Dems and that was a bone of contention between some republicans and the majority Board members. the only poor choice and blatant cronyism was Chris Def. And VERY poor choice that was.
ReplyDeleteJack I concur, the Republicans are not perfect. I am certainly not "Team Republican" because I am not a Republican but, Matters and even Langly, whom I do not trust with a piece of chalk let alone jobs and the budget, have not appointed their family and friends. Even when Matters was in the majority for that blink of an eye, he did not appoint family or friends. Plus, Matters and Langly approved Pete Stenson who was recently appointed as Comptroller. Matters and Langley approved appointing Mary Pat Donnelly to the judge position before the election. If History tells us anything, it says that YES, when the Republicans held the majority they did appoint Chris Def however, they also retained old regime Dems and they are still agreeing to old regime and war horse Dems for current appointments. Credit should be given where credit is due.
Heck, Phil Malone had Den Kennedy's daughter dismissed from her position in the courts because she did not work hard enough during his campaign, or so the story goes. The Republicans didn't do anything to her. It seems Phil Malone controls with his tiny, little iron fist and the Republicans, when they held the majority for a blink of an eye, tried to extend an olive branch.
Tax hikes have been done by every Dem majority. Malone, Mangold and O'Brien all voted for tax increases. Matters never does and for the milisecond the Republicans held the majority there was no tax hike and the budget was cut. Also, for the milisecond the Republicans held the majority, the illegal disbursements of stipends by the Dem Super McCabe was uncovered. Sorry Toni but I just don't give a diddle about your pension. So OFF with their pension credits!!!! Take away the pension credits they "earned" from the stolen stipend dollars they chubbed up their salaries with!
ReplyDeleteLadies and Gentlemen it is time for EG tax payers to recoup the money that was stolen from our wallets. Who do they think they are???? They claim Matters and DiMartino will hike taxes??? O'Brien never met a tax increase she did not like! Malone and Mangold--voted for our tax increases. Since Malone does not own property in this Town a property tax does not impact his wallet but I own property and his tax increase impacted my wallet.
Maybe the Dems need to review the budget vote history. THEY vote YEA for each tax increase and Matters votes NAY. Why they are always so opposed to believing facts is maddening. They never seem to be opposed to ripping us off.
To 8:22 AM-
DeleteThere is a concern that "Matters and DiMartino will hike taxes" because they have written that, if elected, they will support Supervisor Langley..Since Supervisor Langley proposed a tax increase last year and recently told NewsChannel 13 that he plans to raise taxes next year this concern seems to have some merit.
Great post, 8:22. Here is a question for all the candidates: Where do you stand on recouping our stipend/sick leave tax dollars as suggested by the NYS Comptroller?
DeleteAnonymous 8:08 and 8:12:
ReplyDeleteThanks for the intelligence and spirit of debate in your responses. They are good examples of blogging at its best.
I don't dispute your numbers but I would put a different interpretation on what happened. Not all town jobs are filled at the organizational meeting so they only had one month to put their people in. Chris became DPW commissioner and a relative of Rich Crist was named town attorney, Jim Breig had a relative working for the town and Tom Grant's family helped with the Working Families line in the primary (Tom or Eileen - correct me if that's not right) In the same spirit of playing the patronage and nepotism game they axed democrats like Mike O'Brien and Joan Malone not because they wanted to save money but for revenge; many of those jobs would likely have been resurrected during the year to find places for 'their' people. But then the lawsuit happened and the dems almost instantly had the majority back. I'm not saying they hired unqualified people because Jim Breig is one of the most capable people I've ever known and Tom Grant did a great job as well. I'm not competent to assess Chris' tenure at DPW and the gentleman appointed town attorney seemed very capablet. But the process was the same one used by the democrats and is one that will likely be used again if they get the majority. We can argue about whose patronage appointments are more qualified but not that one side plays the game and the other doesn't. In fact I think access to these kinds of jobs is one of the prime motivations for people who run for office in East Greenbush.
Dear 8:22 AM,
ReplyDeleteTo add to your observation. Supervisor Langley PROPOSED AND VOTED FOR A TAX INCREASE.
None of the current Town Board, with the exception of Rick Matters ,cares a wit about the overtaxed people of East Greenbush
A book doesn't need to be written to see that Jack Conway's opinion has turned into nothing more than idle rambling. Condoning conflicts of interest on the town board. Are you for real?
ReplyDelete@5:52 PM- Where are you reading that Jack Conway is condoning conflicts of interests on the Town Board? On the contrary, Mr. Conway has worked mightily to reduce the potential for conflicts of interest for ALL managerial and policy making town employees, including the Town Board.
DeleteKudos to Mr. Conway for his dedicated work!
Gadfly... How do you feel about two members of the Hart family potentially serving on the Town Board simultaneously?
ReplyDeleteProbably not ideal, but is there a law against it? The voters put them there, right? The citizens will just have to be doubly alert to potential conflicts of interest, and the potential board members will have to be careful to follow Jack's advice on recusals and abstentions. Any potential conflicts should be aired out in public, and if it doesn't smell right- file an Ethics complaint. Don't know how much good that will do, since the Ethics Board will only make recommendations to the Town Board. Better to change the composition of the Town Board.
DeleteThe moving trucks were at Ginny O'Briens house today. Doesn't she owe the residents an explanation?
ReplyDeleteTwo members of the Hart family on the board at the same time. Double trouble. This town is in for a world of hurt.
ReplyDeleteWhat's the word on Ginny O'Brien moving. I hear there were moving trucks at her house today. Isn't she required to step down effective today?
ReplyDeleteAnonymous 5:55: I'm not condoning conflicts of interest. I just don't share your sense of powerlessness. First off, it is not a conflict of interest for a person - any person - to sit on the town board. Conflicts of interest occur in specific situations when a project, an appointment or proposal comes before the board and a decision must be taken. I think the larger issue in your post is the impact of insider politics in our political system, particularly in the selection of candidates. We would be much better off if we had five board members with a strong sense that their job is to protect the community not their party and its friends. But to say that a member of the Hart family has a conflict of interest merely by sitting on a board isn't fair. It's a situation that has the potential for conflicts of interest and that's what makes a Code of Ethics and attentive residents so important.
ReplyDeleteJack.. So it's fair to say that while it may not be illegal for two members of the Hart family to serve on the board, there are probably better choices that could be made. This would reduce the chances of future conflicts particularly at a time when this board needs to be working together for the common good of us all.
DeleteJack~ The word has spread pretty quickly about Councilperson O'Brien selling her residence/domicile here in East Greenbush. Does the fact that her new intended residence/domicile being located in a town outside East Greenbush required her to immediatly step down from the town board?
DeleteGadfly; Do you know the laws pertaining to a town board member selling their home and moving out of their residence ? Is that board member still able to serve on the board?
ReplyDeleteDon't know. Might be a good idea for all those interested to email the Supervisor and the Town Attorney for clarification.
DeleteJack, You nailed it. Insider politics should be the concern with candidate Bottillo. Sue Mangold has already shown us her reluctance to perform in a way to protect the community as a whole. Her arrogant manipulation to stall and deny us the original ethics code has been despicable and self serving. To potentially add another member of the same family to our town board would be nothing more than a recipe for more of the same behavior. An ethics board will never be any stronger than the town board allows it to be. Just because you can do something doesn't mean its the right thing to do. Mr. Bottillo may be a good person but he is most likely not a good choice.
ReplyDeleteMr. Bottillo is a very good person. The conflicts you all speak of are nothing more than the conflicts that existed with many previous boards. You had sitting board members with direct relatives on the payroll and it was condoned and an accepted practice as well ! Insider politics exists and so long as its noted and out in the public - really ! Its no longer insider politics....we all know !
DeleteJack Conway (9.27.13 @ 12:33 AM, 9:26 AM, 4:58 PM & 11:33PM) makes many good points as usual, but most fall on deaf ears or blind eyes. However, Jim Breig had two relatives working for the town. Mary Breig was appointed Sr. Court Clerk when he was appointed Comptroller in 2010.
ReplyDeleteAs for some of the rest of the comments …
9.27.13 @ 8:08 AM & 8:12 AM - I think the org meeting appointments will prove you wrong … furthermore, Cristo, Danaher and Matters made some appointments after the org meetings. I think the only jobs cut under Cristo, Danaher and Matters were the Town Attorney and Secretary who were replaced by Craig M. Crist’s firm (related to Rich Crist?). And can anyone forget Langley’s Sean Mulvey and Eileen Grant?
9.27.13 @ 6:09 AM, 8:27 PM & 8:36 PM - I believe Councilperson O’Brien can stay on the Town Board as long as she’s a resident of the Town … doesn’t have to be the residence she lived in when elected.
9.27.13 @ 6:42 AM, 5:55 PM, 8:15 PM - Nothing prohibits two family members from being on the Town Board. Simple solution … elect Sue Mangold to the County Legislature.
9.27.13 @ at 5:29 PM & 8:22 AM - Matters may vote NAY on tax increases but hasn’t met a fee increase he didn’t like.
9.27.13 @ 5:52 PM – Jack Conway’s neither rambling nor condoning conflicts of interest.
8:20 AM-
DeleteLet's also not forget Langley's two Deputy Supervisor appointments; Red Guynup, Chris DeFruscio's brother-in-law and Senate candidate, Ed Gilbert.
Let's also not forget that the Deputy Supervisor position doesn't cost the taxpayers anything- no salary, no benefits. Important difference.
DeleteDear Don:
DeleteNo salary, agreed. No "benefits," not so sure?
@ 8:36
ReplyDeleteOf course she is required to step down! She sold her place of residence in East Greenbush and bought a new one in North Greenbush. She is no longer qualified to hold elected office in East Greenbush. Presumably one of the reason for this is to ensure that those making the laws have to live the results, that they have some "skin in the game" as the budget time is near I certainly don't want her thinking "what the hell it doesnt effect me" hopefully she will demonstrate her character at the special meeting this Monday and resign then.
@ 8:20 regarding Ginny being a resident. The residency requirements a legal requirement and so we should be looking at what legally makes one a resident. it is much more than simply staying with friends or relatives inside the boundaries of the town. It is more than anything else where you call or intend to call home. It is clear she no longer intends to call any address in East Greenbush home as she has purchased her new residence in North Greenbush and intends to make that her permanent residence. In my view once she purchased the new residence she should have resigned but certainly now that she has sold her old one and moved out there is no question she must do so.
ReplyDeleteMight make a valid ethics complaint. Someone should submit it to the Ethics Board if the allegations are true. Let them make the call. Just don't expect anything in the way of a response. I think the New York Public Officer's Law might have some clarification for us on this one. Anybody up to the challenge? Section and paragraph, please. Verbatim, in quotes. Until then it's all nothing but noise.
Deletethe operative phase is "bought a new one in North Greenbush" she only has to resign when she moves OUT of East Greenbush
ReplyDeleteOkay @ 2:58 what would it take to convince you that you're incorrect
ReplyDeletefacts would help
Delete1. Every elective officer of the town at the time of his election and throughout his term of office, shall be an elector of the town. - NYS Town Law, Section 23. So, what is an "elector" and can Ginny O'Brien be one if she lives in another Town? If not, the "throughout his term of office" clause appears applicable.
ReplyDeleteQualifications of town board members.
ReplyDeleteA. Board members must be electors. Town board members, as elected officials of the town, must at the time of election and throughout their terms of office be "electors" of the town. See Town Law § 23 and Public Officers Law § 3. The term "elector" means a person who, if he or she wished, could register as a voter in the town, whether or not that person has, in fact, registered. Residency, age and citizenship are the three key criteria necessary for registration.
B. Residency.
(1) Definition. “Residency” means domicile. The Attorney General has described
"domicile" as follows:
The existing domicile, whether of origin or selection, continues until a new one is
acquired and the burden of proof rests upon the party who alleges a change. The question is one of fact rather than law, and it frequently depends upon a variety of circumstances, which differ as widely as the peculiarities of individuals. . . . In order to acquire a new domicile there must be a union of residence and intention. Residence without intention, or intention without residence is of no avail. Mere change of residence although continued for a long time does not effect a change of domicile, while a change of residence even for a short time with the intention in good faith to change the domicile, has that effect. . . .There must be a present, definite and honest purpose to give up the old and take up the new place as the domicile of the person whose status is under consideration. . . . A temporary residence for a temporary purpose, with intent to return to the old home when
that purpose has been accomplished, leaves the domicile unchanged.
(2) Determination of domicile. The determination of domicile is a question of fact; a
determination that must be made locally, based upon the facts of each case. Ultimately, only a court can determine domicile. [1977 N.Y. Op. Atty. Gen. (Inf.) 271; Hosley v. Curry, 85 NY2d 447, 626 NYS2d 32]
So gadfly you agree then she can no longer hold office?
ReplyDeleteSeems likely that she cannot. If she is unable to vote in an East Greenbush election then she is no longer an elector. Maybe the Minority should press the issue, if it's not too inconvenient.
DeleteDear Gadfly 9:14 PM:
DeleteLove your wit!!
It would not seem likely that Ginny will be returning to 34 empire circle. That is unless she and her husband intend on moving in with the new owners.
ReplyDeleteWow! If Ginny resigns and Keith did the budget cuts as promised by his candidates, we might be able to get on the right track now.without the majority, the dems wouldn't be able to increase spending by restoring the cuts keith makes. It also wouldn't be that great for Sue's campaign to over spending right now.
Deletei know it's not probable that Ginny and Keith will both be doing what is best for the town today but hope springs eternal.
Hey people Keith hasn't made any productive decision since he was elected. I don't think he is capable if it was a 5-0 town board. Which is really sad because obviously many voters thought he would do a great job (including me)
DeleteSeptember 28, 2013 at 6:56 PM
ReplyDelete(2) Determination of domicile. The determination of domicile is a question of fact; a
determination that must be made locally, based upon the facts of each case. Ultimately, only a court can determine domicile. [1977 N.Y. Op. Atty. Gen. (Inf.) 271; Hosley v. Curry, 85 NY2d 447, 626 NYS2d 32]
I take it that residents are not qualified to determine domicile - only a court can determine domicile.
I think you're correct, 2:07. We all have opinions, but the courts have the only ones that count. If the Republicans want her out that bad let them go to the courts and get a determination. They won't. In truth they don't really care.
ReplyDeleteso everyone's stirred up over 9.27.13 at 8:15s completely uncorroborated comment
ReplyDeleteWe will see how Council Person O'Brien conducts herself going forward. The new owners of her previous residence are very nice people. Also very informative of the activities that took place last week. You know the moving van thingy.
DeleteGinny has two choices. Either do the right thing and step down before the next town board meeting. Or to inappropriately remain and continue to cast her votes that will affect our residents into the future, while she moves on to North Greenbush. Let's hope Ginny decides to do the right thing and step down now. You would think she would want to be remembered in a positive way.
DeleteGinny you are remembered by the last bad thing you do in this world. It's your legacy. Look how Rick McCabe is remembered for his illegal stipend scandal.
This message is for Bill Malone sr. Before you whip a stones from your glass house you might want to remember Sr not to be a Fooley by the dashboard lights your troubles are bigger then advertiser . PS old pal how is Saratoga ?
ReplyDeleteDear sun glasses (Chris?),
DeleteHuh??