Last night the Town Board passed a new Code of Ethics by a vote of
5-0. It includes a financial disclosure requirement that is
reasonable and, if correctly monitored, will protect residents from most
financial conflicts of interest. The new Code includes much of what
was in the version drafted by the original Board of Ethics but the
sections on nepotism and post-employment restrictions have been watered
down to the point that there is little or no protection in those
areas. All in all, though, it is a Code well worth having and the board
should be congratulated for making it the law of the town.
Improvements will have to be made over time but it's a very good start
It took three years to get this Code passed but as the German
sociologist Max Weber said "Politics is slow boring in hard wood." It
probably shouldn't have taken this long but it was worth the wait to get
a Code that could be backed by the full board. The original members of
the Board of Ethics - Joe Slater, David Youmans, Jim Breig and Justine
Spada - did a great job and deserve our gratitude. The members of the
public who attended meetings and made invaluable suggestions - Ray
Mooney, Pete Stenson, Eileen Grant, Ed Gilbert, Tom Grant and others -
also deserve a vote of thanks. Thanks also to all the bloggers who
remained concerned about this issue and helped keep it in the public
eye. Thanks to the Gadfly for printing all of my ravings about the Code.
Rick Matters and Keith Langley supported the draft prepared by the
Board of Ethics from the start and managed to put that version into the
public record, a move that kept the issue alive and before the public.
Their decision to make it a central issue in this Fall's campaign
created pressure that helped the final Code become law. Ginny O'Brien,
Sue Mangold and Phil Malone worked with Joe Liccardi to produce the
version that is now law. Their revisions were carefully considered and
respectful of the original draft in most respects. On a personal note I
owe Ginny O'Brien a debt of gratitude for appointing me to the Board of
Ethics and then giving me the space to work independently and to the
best of my ability. Last night was her last town board meeting after
twenty-five years of public service. Since she brought me into the
process I was glad she was there to cast a 'yes.' I wish her all the
best. Slan go foill Ginny.
Well done, my friend!!
ReplyDeleteThe way Malone and Mangold dragged ethics out to just a couple weeks before an election was a disgusting act. The original version should have been passed a year ago when Matters and Langley were asking for a public hearing on the issue. Instead the board majority wanted to wait and try to use it to grab votes on Election Day. As far as Ginny goes, glad to see her gone. Can't wait to see Malone and Mangold sent packing.
ReplyDeleteIn this case, good politics intersected with good government. There is always room for improvement, but the fact that the current code passed unanimously is a very positive development. Kudos to the entire Town Board on this issue.
DeleteWe also owe Ginny thanks for the additional debt she is putting us in with her tax increase budget presented by the Democrat majority. Complete with nepotism remaining alive and well. Yea great job on the ethics code. Licardi made sure he protected Mommy Malone. Business as usual folks.
ReplyDeleteIs it unethical for Phil Malone to announce he is going to fire Sue McCarthy at a board meeting without her having any knowledge of it?
ReplyDeleteYou can't fire Sue McCarthy...she already retired from her position with the Town. What is eliminated in the plem budget is a consultant slot probably eliminated as a way of belt tightening.
DeleteIf you want to tighten the fiscal belt get rid of Joan Malone. Congratulations on the watered down ethics code that would allow her to even still be working at town hall.
DeleteJack, you, and the entire Ethics Board did a wonderful job. Your work represents the only true work done solely in the best interests of the citizens of East Greenbush. That reads like a backhanded compliment because, unfortunately, it has to be so.
ReplyDeleteThe Town Board, and particularly the majority of O'Brien, Mangold and Malone refused to address nepotism because truly all they care about is putting family members into do nothing jobs at taxpayers' expense. And I offer Joan Malone and Mike O'Brien as perfect examples of that sorry state of politics in our town.
You are correct. The code of ethics is a good start. If we ever get town board members elected like Mary Ann matters and Deb DiMartino I think the improvements will come. If we elect any of Phil Malone's candidates I think the drag of nepotism on the taxpayers of East Greenbush will stay with us for a long time.
Thanks to Jack and all the members of the Ethics Board for their hard work and the many courtesies extended to citizen contributors. As we begin to implement this new law, I wish God speed to the Ethics Board Members.
ReplyDeleteDid you intentionally forget to recognize our esteemed town board for the passage of the updated ethics code?
DeleteOur reassessment is done and the company that handled the grievance job is over that's the cut.
ReplyDeleteHere's a great idea. Let's get rid of Sue McCarthy who is working productively with 30 plus years of experience helping part time in the assessors and keep Joan Malone as full time secretary to a part time town attorney. She is a total waste of the tax payers money and the little bit of clerical work could be done right at Maney's law firm. Sorry Phil if anyone should be written out of the budget it should be Mommy Malone.
DeleteThe Town needs one GREAT BIG workload analysis. The Town Attorney function could be handled by a firm on retainer rather than somebody on salary with a secretary - both with the extra benefits. Most of the Town's legal work is done by contractors anyway. The Tax Receiver office could be handled by a lock-box at a local bank with much greater use of computerized resources. That one doesn't need three salaries with benefits.
ReplyDeleteLooks like East Greenbush taxpayers have been carrying some of the Maney law firm overhead. A partner in that firm getting benefits and retirement from the Town. Nice work Pat.
ReplyDeleteWho needs Ethics, we have Licardi.
ReplyDeleteAnon 10/18 at 8:07 p.m., but what does one have to do with the other? Ethics to Licardi is like joyous singing to the Grinch, just noise, noise, noise, noise to which he plugs his ears, so he can't hear.
DeleteI'm still reeling over the tax increase heaped upon our already over-burdoned shoulders last Wed evening by the dem board majority. This was Ginny's parting screw you to all of us. Mangold, who also keeps reminding us of how honest and trustworthy she is (who is she trying to convince, us or herself?), also voted yes for the tax increase. And Malone, well, what more can we say about him? They won't be satisfied until their family and friends and ALL of the town employees are living LARGE on our tax dime. I'm so done. We need a change. Please don't forget to vote "the smart way forward" on November 5th.
ReplyDeletePhil Malone believes we can and should pay higher taxes. If you agree with him vote for his candidates. If you don't agree with him don't vote for his candidates. It's really that simple.
ReplyDeleteThis election boils down to one very important issue. "TAXES"
Phil Malone's Democrats want to raise our already high taxes even higher.
Mary Ann Matters and Deberah DiMartino want to lower our taxes.
Vote on November 5 and make a difference. You get what you vote for.
Dear 9:33 PM and 7:58 AM:
DeleteYou both make some excellent points. Matters and DiMartino have been very clear... they do not want a tax increase.
That's why it is..very puzzling Supervisor Langley refused to speak out at all against the Majority tax increase budget at last Wednesday's Town Board Meeting. It was also very puzzling why Supervisor Langley declined to take the opportunity to speak out in favor of his own no tax increase budget at the same Town Board meeting.
That Town Board meeting would have been the perfect forum for Supervisor Langley, as the Town's Chief Financial Officer, to publicly articulate his views on taxing and spending. Why he didn't do that is anyone's guess?
Is it because Supervisor Langley is now uncertain about his own budget proposal.
Remember, Supervisor Langley was for tax increases (Ch13 TV interview with Dan Bazile) before he was against them.
Anon10:47...You're pretty good as putting words in the Supervisors mouth. If you have been paying attention you wouldn't be so puzzled. The Supervisor put together a tentative budget with a 0% tax increase that would benefit every tax paying resident in our town. The Democrat Malone majority jacked it up and gave us a big fat tax increase and the Supervisor voted no to it. If you don't like the Supervisor's 0% increase proposal then vote for the Democrats, and their tax increase. It's your money.
DeleteDear 11:37 AM:
DeleteI wish you would consider running for Supervisor. You are able to articulate your positions in an informative and understandable manner.
I only wish Supervisor Langley would consider doing the same. He has passed on numerous opportunities to do so.
@11:37 - I think it is you who puts words in the Supervisor's mouth. 10:47 asks why the Supervisor does not advocate for his budget and, in so doing, gets the Supervisor to explain himself at the Budget Hearing. It is very nice for you to assert that the Supervisor's budget will benefit "every taxpaying resident of our town" but if Ms. Mangold & Ms.O'Brien are to be believed, the income projections are too "rosey". If Mr. Langley can't or won't articulate his positions (as Kathy Jimino did in the County presentation) something is very wrong. I also would like to see our officials address your characterization of "big, fat tax increase". I think it might be modest and it is certainly under the cap. Frankly if the increase builds in some reserves, pays back some debts and stays under about $20 per year for my house, I would vote for responsibility.
DeleteWhat say you elected officials?
Sounds like you are for a tax increase. I'm not. Doesn't require any articulation for me.
DeleteVote DiMartino and Matters for lower taxes.
Would anyone have anyidea about why Supervisor Langley chose not to speak out in favor of his tentative budget and against the preliminary budget at the last Town Board meeting?
DeleteThere was a good turnout of people in the audience and by his own rule, he wouldn't have had to answer any questions .A statement from him about the dueling budgets would have been nice.
I think one of your previous posters might be on to something. Does Mr. Langley have some second thoughts about his budget proposal? I'm sure there will be a lot of comments directed to him at the budget public hearing on November the 7th at 6pm at Town Hall.
Will Mr. Langley be willing to answer questions from the taxpayers at that time?
I bet you are for Langley as well. He doesn't like questions and you don"t need answers.
Delete“[The Internet] affects democracy... As more and more citizens express what they think, and defend it in writing, that will change the way people understand public issues. It is easy to be wrong and misguided in your head. It is harder when the product of your mind can be criticized by others. Of course, it is a rare human who admits that he has been persuaded that he is wrong. But it is even rarer for a human to ignore when he has been proven wrong. The writing of ideas, arguments, and criticism improves democracy.”
― Lawrence Lessig, Free Culture: The Nature and Future of Creativity
Talking about revenue projections being too "rosey" and then following that by making them more "rosey" with a tax increase is a bit disingenuous, don't you think? The current majority has ignored a major recommendation of a few years ago from the Fiscal Advisers report, which was to institute a hiring freeze. They've been hiring away and raising taxes. Somebody suggested above that what the Town needs is a workload analysis. I agree. We're not going to get a look a what it would reasonably cost to run the Town without a change in the majority. There is a reason that the nepotism provisions in the original Ethics Code draft were so watered down as to be meaningless.
DeleteDwight has begun a summary of the Wednesday Board meeting. There's a link to it on his site up the page on the right under the "My Blog List" heading. Another link is here::
ReplyDeletehttp://eastgreenbushdreams.wordpress.com/2013/10/19/october-2013-town-board-meeting/
Oneof the key things to consider when analyizing taxes is past history.
ReplyDeleteTo argue abiut the 2014 budget without asking how we got to where we are is too short sighted.
The majority of O'Brien, Mangold and Malone have been adding positions to the town's payroll ever since Langley got elected. They have created new positions and filled numerous positions with family and friends. It is sheer and utter madness and totally irresponsible.
Voting for any Malone candidate guarantees that the hiring policies of the past will impact all taxpayers into the future.
Go away Phil Malone and your candidates. You have screwed us enough.
I just heard Ginny O'Brien stepped down from the town board this week. That's great news. I'm also told that the Democrats are promoting a tax increase for next year. That's bad news. The Democrats have been doing a very poor job as has been reported in several newspaper articles over the past 2 years. I will NOT be supporting the Democrat candidates this year. I am an enrolled Independent and will be supporting DiMartino and Matters on the Independence line. It's time for a change in East Greenbush.
ReplyDeleteSomeone said earlier here that the Democrat proposed tax increase will be only twenty dollars per month and that was ok. Well I disagree. I am 68 years old on a fixed income. That twenty dollars a month is about what it cost me to feed my cat that I love very much. I don't have any children at home but this tax increase will literally take the food right out of my kitty's mouth. I am very upset and also a Democrat and can say I am not even going to vote this year. Not for any of ya. I hope the Republicans win. That will teach you all.
ReplyDeleteFor 9:33pm: you must be beside yourself becuse of the 1.9% increase Jimino proposed at the county level, if the town increse has you "reeling". Where is the outrage on that? The county portion of your tax bill is about 10% more than your town tax....wheres the outrage? What do you get from the county? From the town, you get police, fire, road maintenence, etc. etc. from the county, you get nothing. Where is the outrage? Oh yeah, it doesn't suit your anti dem agenda to have any negatives to say about the county Reps.
ReplyDeleteRead the paper, the county is running like a fine tuned clock. The East Greenbush Democrats have turned our Hometown in a Headline running us All into a sea of debt. That's right, ALL OF US, over 2 MILLION DOLLARS IN DEBT.
DeleteWell this is one I can actually do something about. It's right here in town and I've done a bit of work on what actually goes into the budget. We do actually have a lot of information as to what goes on here.....OSC and the Fiscal Advisor's report for starters. We just haven't had any real leadership from the current majority which has carried the interests of ALL the people. They've been watching out for their own personal interests. Just look at the recommendation lists in the audits which haven't been addressed. They've been ignored, and will continue to be ignored unless folks start raising a bit of hell. It should be remembered that elected officials work for US. The current bunch has developed a mentality which tells them that WE work for THEM. Good grief.
DeleteGadfly,
DeleteYou mention Fiscal Advisor's report twice - didn't it call for tax increases?
Have you looked at the Tentative or Prelim Budget at all?
The Tentative (Supervisor) Budget has a 5.2% Sales Tax increase? What does County Exec. Kathy Jimino say about Sales Tax?
“Therefore, we cannot budget to spend what we realistically cannot collect and so the projected increase in sales tax collections for 2014 is only ¾% over the 2013 budget. This reflects the fact that the economy remains soft and consumers’ spending is increasing but at a very slow pace. Regrettably, this puts more tax burden on our property owners.”
Matters and DiMartino are calling for accurate revenue forecasts – why isn’t the Supervisor?
Why aren’t you?
The Democrat majority has created a proposed budget raising my taxes. That budget is what we are stuck with. If the Democrats are in disagreement with anticipated revenues in the tentative budget, they should be reducing expenses to accomplish a 0% increase, but they will not. This is how we got $2,000,000 in debt to begin with.
DeleteI am tired of all the smoke and mirrors. The Democrats are raising my taxes and thats a fact. Another fact is, I'm not voting for them for that reason.
Get rid of some of these patronage jobs and then ask for my vote. How about this idea. Try taking care of the taxpaying residents of this town instead of your self serving few.
Raising taxes without first addressing profligate spending for which East Greenbush is well known is akin to pounding sand down a rat hole. I don't think we need to rehearse the list here again, but I'll just mention one for which I FOILed for non-existent information recently. It's the documentation of the savings which the $500,000 "retirement incentive" was supposed to realize. It isn't there. If the majority could have restrained itself a bit on the hiring binge, there might be an argument. Anybody who has done budgeting in business or government knows that Personal Service costs drive the highest expenses and these expenses have "tails" which can only be addressed by layoffs or attrition. Attrition is much better for people. I think Jimino has analyzed her expenses - lots of them are mandates. There is absolutely no evidence that expenses have been analyzed and evaluated around here. It's a political hot potato. We need a workload analysis before any taxes are raised. I'll bet that one would reduce taxes.
ReplyDeleteI believe attrition was precisely the method of cost cutting that could have been used when it came to the last three patronage jobs that were filled at the DPW. Restraint here could have saved our already overtaxed residents hundreds of thousands of dollars without negatively effecting one single town employee. Without question an opportunity missed.
DeleteDear Don:
DeleteI agree with you. But I am continually frustrated with the refusal of Supervisor Langley to at least propose and articulate the need for a workload analysis. After all, Langley has had the power of the "bully pulpit" to advocate for this most fundamental of changes. He did not even call for a workload analysis as either a component or as an addendum to his Tentative Budget.
I support the election of Mary Ann Matters, but I have strong doubts that Langley, no matter who is elected in November, has the commitment and the ability necessary to spearhead a legitimate workload analysis.
Sadly, Langley is too tied up with people like Chris DeFruscio and John Tirino to undertake such an essential reform measure.
The democrats say their budget will 'only' cost us about $24/year. Last year they said it would 'only' cost us about $36/year. Then they said the wastewater treatment solution would 'only' cost us about $78/life of the project. The county said their increases will 'only' cost us about $40/year and the school board says it will 'only' cost us about another $40/year. After about 25 of these 'onlys' we're taxed beyond any reasonable measure and this is exactly how it's done - incrementally. Even the tentative budget which had no tax increase, although better, is still not the answer. The solution to our problems is reduced government and LOWER taxes. When is someone going to say this is going to reduce your taxes by 'as much as' $50/year? I would love to see the 'as much as' replace the 'only' as the qualifying adjective in our discussion of taxes in this town. Until then we're being failed by all of our elected representatives. Of course, that's 'only' my opinion but 'as much as' I'm a taxpayer it should count for something.
ReplyDeleteEveryone keeps saying the Supervisor isn't saying enough but I want to see how things change if Deb and Mary Ann are elected. If that happens, the Supervisor will have power he's never had before. Then, we'll really get to see what he can do for us in his role as Town Supr. We've already seen what the Dem Majority can do...mostly they can raise our taxes and then mismanage our money. So, they are OUT. As a resident, I am looking forward to being put FIRST for a change. We sure pay enough to live here, so we should be put first. I am looking forward to a new day in EG on Jan 1st. Good luck, Deb and Mary Ann!
ReplyDeleteDear 11:56 AM:
DeleteThe most effective "power" any Supervisor has, is the "power" to persuade others to achieve a consensus. This requires a Supervisor to effectively communicate with his/her fellow elected officials and just as importantly with his/her voting constituents.
Supervisor Langley is not an effective communicator. He has not allowed questioning at Town Board meetings from interested residents. Unlike last year, he did not keep all of the members of the Town Board informed as he prepared his 2014.Tentative Budget and he has not been an active participant at non-Republican Party community events,
This may not all be his fault, he may just be very uncomfortable engaging in give and take discussion with people outside of his comfort zone.
However, this is a very important election for the Town of East Greenbush. Since Mary Ann Matters and Deb DiMartino have been endorsed by Supervisor Langley,his reluctance to clearly explain his positions on important issues ill serves the candidates he has "endorsed" and the reforms they have advocated.
I'd say that we've never had the "engaging" communicative politician you describe for a long while - if ever. I have hopes for Mary Ann and Deb. Remember we never used to even know what was going to happen at Board meetings until some of us started "crashing" the pre-board meetings and using the Open Meetings Law as it was intended. Slowly but surely we're going to drag this bunch, "kicking and screaming" if necessary, to perform good government. It may take a while, but I doubt that we'll hear the likes of "we're the majority, and what we pass, passes" said with such arrogance anytime soon.
DeleteDear Gadfly 1:38 PM:
DeleteI also have high hopes for Mary Ann. I'm not locked into Deb as yet, but I'll keep reading and listening.
Looking forward to hearing more about your European tour.
All the best!
Spent almost two weeks in France. Paris at the beginning and end, with a tour of Normandy and the Loire Valley in the middle. Brought back some sand from Omaha Beach for my friend Dwight. There might be a little extra for some who might want some. It was quite an experience to see that cemetery and battlefield. It will be the 70th anniversary of that invasion next June. Fortunately, we made it before the "shutdown."
DeleteOne of the highlights of the trip was our meeting a couple (named Johnson too) from Holstein, Iowa. Ray planted two flags on Omaha Beach in memory of two of his friends from the Legion who had survived the D-Day landing.
I came away with a re-affirmation of the knowledge that blood was shed for our ability to question government.
Gadfly: Please give some insight as to the excess hiring by the town. Malone says the DPW has lost 10 guys since 2010, but replaced with only 3. From all accounts, these numbers are true. Do you have conflicting numbers? I wouldn't consider this hiring excessive, after all, somebody has to keep the water running, the sewers flowing and the roads in shape. How about police? Several cops have left over the past couple years, would you not replace them? Who will protect us?
ReplyDeleteHow many guys and how long does it take to empty the trash in Town Park on Sunday at double time? Workload analyses can be done, and it is from these that a base is derived. Maybe loosing 10 guys at DPW since 2010 had things going in the right direction via attrition. It's NOT an excuse to backfill positions.
DeleteHiring was supposed to cut overtime. I think Nate demonstrated that it didn't. When I hear stories about "burning" the OT cash at the end of the year because it's "budgeted," it raises some questions.
Dear Gadfly 12:41 PM,
DeleteAgreed But this begs the following question: Why hasn't Supervisor Langley even started a conversation about how he would begin to institute a Workload analysis within Town departments. After all, he has been in office for nearly 22 months. His inaction gives me little confidence about his commitment to and understanding of this and other taxpayer reform issues.
I'm glad you asked that question. This is where a majority becomes important. I hasten to remind readers that the matter of Workload Analysis was on the table with the original Finance Committee, as a way of addressing expenses in the Town. It made the majority VERY nervous, and was one of the central reasons that the original Finance Committee was disbanded by that majority.
Deleteand you'd be among the first to complain if the trash in Town Park in the Town Park wasn't picked up!
Deletenice revisionist history
The question wasn't whether the trash would be picked up (if there is any), but how many guys and how long it would take to do it. That's something a manager should know. How much of a job is it? Is it worth double time? And if it is, how many guys and how long? And could it be done on Monday at straight time?
DeleteIsn't the Commisioer of Public Works the person who should sit down and objectively formulate a work load analysis on the entire staff at the DPW. Something like a detailed report. Has he put together a specific work load requirement in report form for the new Waste Water Treatment Plant we are about to begin. It seems that it should be more thought out than having Phil Malone just saying add another one of my friends to the payroll.
DeleteThere's a second installment on last week's Board meeting by Dwight at this link, or the link up the page on the right:
ReplyDeletehttp://eastgreenbushdreams.wordpress.com/2013/10/20/october-2013-board-meeting-town-park-water-quality/
So Dwight, they have applied for the same grant twice?
DeleteOr maybe never got around to applying the first time?
DeleteHonestly, I don't know. They resoluted to apply, but whether they ever did or not remains unknown. The State probably gets lots of applications and probably not every project gets selected. I do remember e-mailing the potential grantee to say they'd be crazy to give us money for this endeavor, since we so poorly managed our tax revenue on other highly questionable things. I'm not saying that had anything to do with the outcome though.
DeleteTo Jack Conway October 20, 2013 at 11:55 AM----that was perfect!!!!! "only" can be the biggest word in the vocabulary when it is coupled with dollars we are paying. If "only" we had politicians that were forward thinking rather than self-serving for their own wallets and their friends wallets we may see a budget that is reduced by' as much as" $50/yr.
ReplyDeleteSincerity of those holding the offices is gone, and that stands for every level, Town, County. State and Federal. Those sitting in the elected officials' seats have no honor and no backbone to do what is right for those that put them in those seats. Standing up for the taxpayer, the VOTER, is a forgotten ideology, one on which this nation was founded. They seem to forget they are in those seats for the primary purpose of protecting the voters, not stealing from the voters, not ripping off the voters. Yet, we continue as voters, continue to accept the downgrade of our elected officials. It's shameful. The party's are run by complete buffoons, and we the voters are forced to accept whatever puppet those buffoons choose to endorse. A third party would be great but getting them on the ballot is nearly impossible without the buffoon backing from a major party.
Mary Ann Matters, I know and like. Cheryl Vallee I do not know and Deb DiMartino I do not know. Cheryl sounds astute and has a business background. Deb, sounds like she is doing as she is told which frightens me. If DeFruscio is the one telling DiMartino what to, that is a nightmare. Can Cheryl be trusted to be independent from Malone? Who knows? Can anyone vouch for the sincerity of either of these candidates?
At 8:15 AM - I like Cheryl Vallee and I think that you would, too. She is an independent, free thinking person and, as you can see from her advertiser piece, she pledges to work with the entire town board. Refreshing and not your typical politician.
DeleteI have posted on this blog in the past that we should all vote for the two best candidates and not for pairs of candidates or even for the affiliations of candidates. I believe that independent thinking and the resolve it takes to get us out of this mess is the only way out for our town.
You seem to be an independent thinker and a person who is giving careful consideration as to how to cast your vote. I will not insult you by asking you to trust an anonymous blogger. Why don't you shoot an e-mail to cebvallee@verizon.net and get to know her a little better.
I have known Deb DiMartino for years and she is an honest and hardworking person who has a mind of her own. She in no one's puppet. Her character speaks for itself and I believe she will weigh all the facts and do what is right for this town.
DeleteDear 11:53 AM,
DeleteMary Ann Matters has shown she can think independently from DeFruscio and Langley!!
I hope you are correct about Mrs. DiMartino.. It sure would be nice though to see or hear of at least one example of her "mind of her own" prior to election day!
To: Anonymous October 21, 2013 at 9:48 AM: Agreed regarding Cheryl's Advertiser piece however, it does not state her plans about taxes, union contracts and OT, to name a few important issues facing this Town in the coming years. Very happy to send her an email BUT my concern is how public my email would become and how direct her answers would be. Sending an email to her is not a problem but if she skirts the issues and her reply is a big long, wordy message that goes NOWHERE than she is every bit the same politician we have always seen sitting at the dais. Please provide your personal thoughts about Cheryl and how direct she is with her answers on Town issues. Please keep in mind--all politicians plan to "work together" until they win and end up sitting in the chair.
ReplyDeleteThank you.
Great political chatter. Means nothing.
DeleteDear Anonymous 1:32 PM:
DeletePlease keep us posted about your email. I have received an email from Mary Ann Matters in response to questions I had. I received return emails from Ginny O'Brien and Sue Mangold as well.
To: AnonymousOctober 21, 2013 at 2:16 PM: that's the point. Until there is a debate the voters are out of luck. The politicians "chatter" but we don't hear THEIR ideas about lowering our deficit, taxes, union contracts, nepotism or any substantive issues.
ReplyDeleteAlso, if we have to cow poke the candidates into providing their ideas---are they independent thinkers? Mary Ann--independent thinker and she has proven that at Board meetings, at the door and when speaking with her. When does Cheryl plan on proving her independence? While I would like to grant her my vote--she should earn it by being forthright with HER plans and ideas. A debate would sort it out for voters.
Yup. A debate would be great. We need a person to approach the candidates and secure the hall. I'm hoping that the students and faculty at Columbia will be able to do another fine job but we need someone to contact them. It would be great for all concerned. Jack? Don?
DeleteOk Candidates here is your first question.
DeleteQuestion: If elected, will your party raise taxes?
Answer: Bottillo and Vallee. Absolutely YES
Answer: DiMartino and Matters
Absolutely not. NO
Ok debate over, thank you for coming.
Anon 10/21 at 2:16 p.m. Really? "We don't hear THEIR ideas about lowering our deficit, taxes, union contracts, nepotism or any substantive issues." Haven't you been reading the Advertiser for the past six weeks? DiMartino and Matters have been spending gobs of money on paid ads to give you THEIR ideas on a silver platter. Maybe you can't read? Well, that's your tough luck. Matters and DiMartino have been ruling the Advertiser. Botillo and Vallee, not so much. DEBATES ARE FOR LOSERS! The winners are out pounding the pavement and visiting their supporters at their doors. No time for debates, especially 14 days before the election. If you don't know who you're voting for by now, you're never going to.
Deletesee http://eastgreenbushdreams.wordpress.com/2013/10/22/october-town-board-meeting-iii-it-pays-to-ask/
DeleteDwight's got a third installment up at the link on the upper right. Excellent!! Check it out. And you can respond here as Jim C. did.
ReplyDeletePlace your bets folks. Two weeks to go. My money is on DiMartino and Matters.
ReplyDeleteTo the nasty person on Talks that questioned Dwight & Jack regarding Matters & DiMartino because DeFruscio is the Repub Chairman-----Shame on you!!!! The DeFruscio family is NOT the topic and is NOT a voting issue! Everyone has things in their closet they are not proud of and some of us have the decency to leave those things alone because they are not the Town's issues. Nobody discussed Ginny's 2 big skeletons.
ReplyDeleteThe Botillo issue is very real. If he wins and serves on the Town Board, Sue Mangold and he BOTH will have to abstain on votes pertaining to the Hart family and/or businesses they are associated with.
Talks wants to hammer individuals' personal lives than maybe they should look into the mirror because there is no "fairest of them all" over there. Stick to Town issues and taxpayer issues.
To 2:07 PM
DeleteChris DeFruscio is indeed a voting issue. He selects the Republican candidates just as Phil Malone is a voting issue since he selects the Democratic candidates. That being said, there should great restraint shown by both party Chairs involving discussion of the personal lives of anyone.
Thank you, 2:07. I don't ever read the Talks blog, have no true idea as to who monitors/coordinates it, so I don't know what you're referring to, but you're right: family stuff is beyond the pale and should be left alone. As for my involvement with the Republican campaign: it doesn't exist. Period. As for Chris Defruscio? I've always liked Chris personally and to my knowledge he's never given me any reason not to like him. As for his candidates? Don't know either one of them on any level, same as on the Dem side. I don't even care about sides anymore. I just want people who are going to look out for the Town first. Read the next installment of my October meeting minutes tomorrow, and I think that will become clear. Dwight
ReplyDeleteI met Deberah DiMartino and Mary Ann Matters over the weekend. I would like to wish them both good luck in the upcoming election. They both expressed their commitment toward working hard at addressing the many issues that face our town. In the short time we spent I sensed a sincerity in the words they both spoke and feel they both deserve a chance to serve our community. I will be casting my vote for them both, and hope for their success on Election Day.
ReplyDeleteDwight, my dear friend, it was my pleasure! You're not missing anything on Talks. They parrot one another and no substance. The comments consist mainly of personal attacks on anyway and everyone. Candidates, candidates' families, candidates' friends, non-candidates, the public at large, basically everyone everywhere.
ReplyDeletePlease continue to share your research with us via this blog---an informative blog.
To 10/22 at 3:56 - debates are for losers? Losers like Ronald Regan and JFK? We had a very successful debate here in EG a few hears back. I tnink with att the trouble we hav e had in EG some comparison shopping is in order. And thefe are a lot of undecideds out there, probably because EG is accoustomed to 11th hour surprises. Debates promote independent thinking...how could that be a bad thing?
ReplyDeleteDear Don:
ReplyDeleteI just read Mr. Jenkins' most recent post on East Greenbush Dreams. I wholeheartedly commend it to your readers attentions.
Be well,
Tom
My only comment on the Malone "good words" is that Vladimir Putin could get the same compliment.
Delete1:26 - You are correct, that could be said of Putin as well. I guess the only point I was trying to make was that Malone, of all the Board members, is unique. I truly believe he is the best pure politician we have. That's not the same as good, it's simply an acknowledgment that he has all the right skill sets and God-given gifts to go as far as he wants to go in the political realm. His challenge? Use it for good. Be a champion of the people, not the Party. If he does that, the sky is the limit for Phil Malone. If not, his fall from grace will be quick and ugly, which would truly be a shame.
DeleteTo 10/22 @ 3:56--it's a shame that you seem to feel that more information can be too much information. No, I have not yet decided who BOTH of my votes are going to. Only one vote is firm and that is Mary Ann. Last week I found out that DiMartino is not as astute on our Town issues as a Board candidate should be, that is concerning to me. The Advertiser is great and reading thoughts are great BUT it would be nice to hear their unrehearsed answers and rather than read what possibly someone else wrote for them....it would be helpful to hear their thoughts when they have to be spontaneous.
ReplyDeleteAsking for more information is not wrong. Hastily voting for someone NOT having all the information that should be available to you--that, my dear, is a loser.
My one vote, for those counting heads, is the equivalent of about $10,000 (that's the aggregate of my property and school tax). That should be kept in mind because when investing almost $10,000 (or the property portion of my taxes which is about $5,000) I don't want only half the information--I want ALL of it. You are aware the "Lemon Law" does not apply to elected officials. If we elect a lemon/bum we are stuck with that lemon/bum for the term. There are no "trade-ins'" or "returns" nor are there warranties or guarantees with these candidates. When you purchase a vehicle you probably review all the information available as well as speak with friends that own the same car you are interested in purchasing. A candidate for Town Board is no less of an investment because while your car payments remain the same for the duration of the loan, our taxes do not HAVE to remain the same for the duration of their term.
You think you would have realized that. Apparently nastiness is in great supply but unfortunately it is not a product in great demand.
Exactly. I love your analogy of the purchase of a car. I have never regretted any vote the way I regret voting for Mr. Langley. Now to carry the analogy along I am being asked to purchase some very expensive upgrades to make the original purchase work properly. If I were purchasing a car, I would cut my losses (Langley) and go to a new product. The only missing piece is a candidate to convince me they are independent of the lemon. (I already have one favorite, think experience as an Executive Director)
DeleteTo: Anon Oct 23 @ 9:45 am--LOVE THAT!!! "being asked to purchase some very expensive upgrades to make the original purchase work properly.." That is so true!!! Great way to piggy back on my car purchase analogy. So true and so sad!
ReplyDeleteAll we want is to know what the candidates know and how they approach each issue. Contrary to some on "Talks"...this Town DOES have issues...even the Wall St. Journal pointed out some of our issues. Yikes!
Hopefully the Ethics Law will help detour future Boards from more issues....such as nepotism and conflicts of interest.
Dwight, I read your last installment about the town board meeting and Phil Malone.
ReplyDeleteBefore you get too excited about Phil maybe you should check and if Phil's father's shop got a tax assessment appeal denied orr if the town is finally forcing him to clean up that abortion of a project out front.
Phil Malone has to be assesed as a part of the leadership failure of East Greenbush. Peter Drucker said: "Leadership is defined by results not attributes". On that basis Malone fails as a leader. As do, by the way, his majority associates Ginny O'Brien and Sue Mangold.
The lost of failures is LONG, sad, tragic and expensive.
I will grudgingly give Phil Malone credit. He has turned basically a lifetime of failure into "success" as a politician. Law school, his state job, his notary debacle are all examples of Phil Malone's history of failure.
I also acknowledge that without Phil Malone's nasty ass temper and immaturity we would not have the term "gadfly" in the political lexicon of East Greenbush.
Phil may be politically sharp. It is a little hard to judge with his Mommy looking out for him around town hall in her do nothing but get paid a lot plus benefits job.
So, I clearly see Phil in a much different light. I see Phil as very much a huge oart of the problem. But I can also agree with him that the tax assessor's job performance has been terrible. What else accounts for all these tax appeals?
On your last question in your last sentence.....I believe that the reason for all the tax appeals lies in the botched REVAL which was done a few years ago. It was supposed to be revenue neutral and just redistribute the tax liability more fairly. In fact what happened is that it ADDED about $1,000,000 in property tax revenue to the base collected each year. I think those with enough resources are now contesting what they got hit with. I believe that there was some question at the time as to whether the company which did the REVAL should have been paid.
DeleteYeah, but if that kind of screw-up netted that kind of cash, why call attention to it????
DeleteSeriously Dude? Maybe because property-tax-paying citizens ended up getting Major League screwed by that botched REVAL. We footed the bill for multiple useless friends and family living large on our dime. Much of that extra money they frittered away on themselves came from actual people (go figure). Yeah, why call attention to it; why not just let them do it again.
Delete5:06 - You're preaching, if not to the choir, at least to the cleaning guy at the church. I know all about his father's shop, and his mother's job at Town Hall. But neither of them coronated their son. Mrs. Malone worked for the Town long before her son got elected. He worked hard and won a place at the table, even without my vote. And besides, I didn't write about his parents, I wrote about him.
ReplyDeleteDon't forget, there are 4 other members of the Board, including Supervisor Langley and Mr. Matters, that could make the garage comply with zoning if it is not doing so. 4 others to question the tax assessment on that property if it was inappropriately reduced. 4 others to make sure that Mrs. Malone is held accountable for her work product at Town Hall. Phil Malone does not operate in a vacuum. His "failures" as a leader are no greater or no less than those of any other Board member on either side of the aisle. My simple point was simply to point out that on that particular night, the night of the October Board meeting, he stood out. How? I know exactly what Phil Malone thinks of Brad Canning and the Supervisor's Tentative Budget because Phil told us what he thought, in crystal clear, damn near campaign stump-speech terms. Phil Malone doesn't pretend to be nice. He doesn't pretend to be anything other than what he is- an ambitious politician who, deep down, knows how good he could be. But I have absolutely no idea what Mr. Langley thought of having his Tentative budget rather gently eviscerated in front of his own eyes- he never said anything in response, nor did Mr. Matters for that matter.
And I am not much concerned with a perceived "history of failure." Look at two of the greatest leaders to come out of the Civil War:Lincoln and Grant. Both had very slow starts until they found their calling, and both had deep flaws in addition to wonderful accomplishments. I'm not comparing Phil Malone to either of these great historical figures, but I do see much potential in this aggressive young man. It just needs to be tempered and shaped in the right direction. The rest of them? Ever hear of The Peter Principle? Dwight
Dear Dwight,
DeleteI believe the upside of Phil Malone is very high. I am cautiously optimistic he is headed in the right direction and that the residents of East Greenbush will benefit from his hopefully growing maturity.
Dwight.. You may be impressed with Phil because he speaks his so called mind. It's what he says I surprised you credit him for. Just an example of Phil's imagination can be seen on the town web site. Perhaps Phil should tell us all the real reason behind his no vote on Brad Canning along with his verbal assault on Brad's job performance. The very day after Phil gave Brad his unfair tongue lashing Brad appeared in the advertiser receiving an award of excellence for his job performance.
DeleteI would like to thank Supervisor Langley, along with council persons O'Brien, Mangold & Matters for recognizing Mr. Canning's abilities and voting for his reappointment. Mr. Canning is an asset to our town staff.
7:20 AM - I never said Phil was correct in his assessment of Mr. Canning's performance. I made that clear enough for most people, but I'll repeat it for you: "Is it true? No idea,..." This after already describing the flowery things said about Brad by the previous speakers. So is it any surprise that Brad got an award when 4 out 5 Board Members think he's doing an outstanding job? As far as I know Brad is in fact doing an excellent job. My whole point was not to weigh the merits of Brad Canning's performance. I felt bad for the guy, having to sit through that public chastisement. It was to point out the uniqueness of Mr. Malone's thought and his willingness to let YOU know what he thought. I think that's unusual for a politician, and newsworthy.
DeleteCorrection: The Board did not award Mr. Canning, the County did. Did the Board have input? Dwight
DeleteJust one other thing on this: I have an e-mail out to Darlene Maloney of the State's Real Property Division, requesting the criteria for the award. The photo on the web site says that Mr. Canning received the award, but is that because he is the one who earned it, or did Sue McCarthy? Remember, at the Board meeting Mr. Malone reminded Mr. Canning that this would be his first year in office without Sue. And since you choose the luxury of anonymity and I choose not to, why don't you anonymously whisper to us all what Mr. Malone's "real reason" for opposing Mr. Canning's appointment was? Dwight
DeleteSorry Dwight, no can do, perhaps you should email your new BFF and see if he will tell u the truth. Anonymous
DeleteAhh, that's how it goes. I see. Make an anonymous accusation, anonymously refuse or be anonymously unable to back it up, and then throw in an anonymous taunt. Nicely done. And you're different than your opposition how? Dwight
DeleteIt was nicely done.
DeleteBy the way.....my comment that Talks deleted went something like......The day of the "boss" in politics are over. Bossism only works when the lights are off, and the lights are on now in East Greenbush. We've learned how to watch them operate.
ReplyDeleteI am no fan of Chris or Phil, and don't have a horse in this race. Having said that, i think it is very refreshing to hear what Phil had to say at the last meeting. Whether you agree with him or not, the kis has the guts to say what he thinks and is very articulate about it. If the budget was balanced by the supervisor, using monies that can't be depended on, I think Phil absolutely should be applauded for bringing that out and doing the right thing with a small increase. He does seem to know his stuff, something Chris has shown he does not. I think. You may be on to something Dwight, as far as Mr Malone is concerned. Reading the bio's and info on the candidates, a truely unbiased person cannot deny that the candidates put forth by Malone are the most qualified. The reasson I say this is because I have seen nothing in the form of qualifications, by the Rep. Candidates. I know Ms Matters works somewhere in the State workforce and Ms DiMartino works as an aid in elementary school, but only know this through hearsay. I've also heard that the Dems have requested a debate and the Reps declined. does anyone know if this is true?
ReplyDeleteNow what kind of off handed judgement is that? You admit that what you know is through "hearsay." Why not dig a little deeper? One could say that Mr. Bottillio works "somewhere in the State workforce." Right?
ReplyDeleteHow come Phil Malone wants to write Sue McCarthy out of his 2014 Preliminary Budget, that also calls for a tax increase. Phil Malone likes to talk and tax. Phil Malone is taxing us right out of our homes. I am retired and can't afford to pay any more taxes. Phil Malone doesn't care about the seniors on Social Security.
ReplyDeleteDear 2:30 PM,
ReplyDeleteYou raise an interesting question about the 2014 Preliminary Budget. I find it most curious why Supervisor Langley chose not to raise any questions of his own about the Budget, or take the time to speak up in favor of his own tentative Budget proposal.
While I don't always agree with Mr. Malone, I find his willingness to explain his votes much more responsive than the limited (if any) comments we receive from Supervisor Langley.
Phil Malone is very proud of his TAX INCREASE. Langley did all the work in preparing the tentative budget with a 0% increase. If the little boy wonder (Phil) doesn't agree with the Supe's revenue numbers why didn't he just reduce revenues and expenses and bring his budget to zero also.
ReplyDeleteOne answer is he is promising people jobs at DPW if they will help him with the Democrat campaign.
Phil Malone could care less about the taxpayer. All he cares about is taking your money and hiring his friends.
@4:15 pm-
DeleteGood post, but it doesn't answer the question raised by @4:04pm- Why didn't Supervisor Langley ask any questions and/or talk in favor of his own Budget?
Supe isn't the one trying to raise your taxes, Phil Malone is. The question is why is Phil Malone raising our taxes? We taxpayers need a break, and Phil Malone wants us broke. Phil Malone needs to explain why he can't bring us a 0% increase. That's what I want to hear. It's Phil's budget that gets a public hearing not the tentative budget. Let Pete Stenson tell us all about their tax increase.
ReplyDeleteThe majority raised questions about "soft" revenue numbers, requiring in their view, a tax increase. They missed a chance to do some expenditure cuts to avoid that increase. On the list might have been the Town Attorney (to be put on retainer), the Town Attorney's secretary, moving the tax collection operation to a lock box at a local bank, etc.
ReplyDeleteHey Dwight, a couple of us were kicking around your ideas over a brew, and somebody mentioned a couple of things which might "temper" your attitude about Mr. Malone and his majority. This is the same majority who created a deputy police chief position, in part to help reduce overtime costs and we've seen little in evidence that overtime has gone down and wasn't Phil the guy who noted that the million dollars from Fed Ex was going to solve a lot of our problems? PLUS they shifted employees to keep them working and created jobs for them. Why the tax increase if there was other revenue and people in place to control costs? This is a guy who should be no where near government.
ReplyDeleteA brew is a fine setting to kick sports ideas around, but maybe coffee would have been better for a discussion of governance. Since you at least sound reasonable I'll answer: you're over-thinking this. What it boils down to is simple: I said I liked certain attributes Phil Malone has: the way he seems to speak his mind (the same reason I like Alan West, Ron Paul, and sometimes John McCain) and give his opinion on why he votes a particular way. I never said any of those opinions were right, or that I agreed with those votes. I just enjoyed hearing them because it doesn't often happen. You make Malone sound like a dictator when, in fact, he has opposition up there with just as much opportunity to expound and explain. Maybe the opposition is just a little too quiet for me, a little too willing to be kicked like a dog without biting back. The image is probably too harsh, but you get the idea. By the way, how did the votes go on those issues you mention? I'm not going to waste all day doing the research, but take a look at just one: the Deputy Police Chief position you mention. It's Resolution 19-2011 (Jan. 2011 Board Meeting) and the vote to appoint the Deputy was unanimous: McCabe, Mangold, Matters, O'Brien and Malone. Why are you singling out just one? If Mr. Matters was opposed why did he vote yes? When a Town observer (me, you, anyone else) is not even allowed to say something positive about certain attributes of a person on "the other side," I think we've gone way too far off track.
DeleteDwight
Great to see that Ginny O'Brien endorses Battillo and Vallee. This endorsement comes right on the heels of Ginny O'Brien voting for a TAX INCREASE along with the rest of the Democrat majority.
ReplyDeleteImportant to learn here is that Bottillo and Vallee are for a TAX INCREASE along with Malone and Mangold.
Bottillo and Vallee were proud to stand with Ginny O'Brien and her TAX INCREASE.
Mike and Cheryl are unfortunately a big disappointment by aligning themselves with a TAX INCREASE. So much for their claim to be independent thinkers.
These two candidates clearly represent HIGHER TAXES going forward.
Sorry Bottillo and Vallee will NOT be my choice on November 5th.
Dear Gadfly:
DeleteAs a taxpayer, I generally don't like tax increases and I have no hesitation in speaking out against them if I feel they are unnecessary.
That's why I have a difficult time understanding why both Supervisor Langley and Councilperson Matters choose to remain silent on this issue at the last Town Board meeting.
Why didn't they speak out against the tax increase?
.Talk about being a big disappointment! If Mr. Langley and Mr. Matters actually believed the increase was unwarranted, they should have said so. That's what effective representation is all about.
Why didn't they speak out against the tax increase?
They did speak out. They voted NO to the tax increase. That's what we elected them to do, vote on the issues. You have a problem with a tax increase take it up with those promoting it. In this case it's the Democrats.
DeleteSupervisor Langley and Council Person Matters both voted NO on the tax increase. That speaks volumes to me.
DeleteDear 7:46 AM:
DeleteWith all due respect. We also elected them to publically explain their votes on issues important to the taxpayers of East Greenbush. Most elected officials take great pride in researching the issues they vote on and as a result are very comfortable in talking about the results of their research when they are explaining the reasons behind their votes.
Curiously, Supervisor Langley and Councilperson Matters chose not to speak. This was no surprise to those familiar with Supervisor Langley, as he is almost always reluctant to comment on important issues in public.
Councilperson Matters, on the other hand, has usually been quite willing in the past to publicly comment on issues and votes. His often thoughtful comments and digressions have been one of the hallmarks of his tenure as an elected official, as well they should .
Again, it is very curious that on an issue as important as the preliminary (and tentative for that matter) budget Supervisor Langley and Councilperson Matters deliberately chose to absent themselves from any public discussion at a public Town Board meeting.
Tis passing strange ...
Here is something to think about.
ReplyDelete• Does it hurt to make the mortgage payment every month?
• Does it hurt to pay the utility bill every month?
• Does it hurt to pay for all your insurance bills?
• Does it hurt to pay the car payment every month?
• Does it hurt to pay your property taxes?
Well if you answered yes to any of these questions then it's about to get a lot more painful.
Phil Malone is going to RAISE YOUR TAXES. He is telling the residents that it is the responsible thing to do.
Folks Phil Malone doesn't pay any taxes in this town.
And Why?
Phil Malone doesn't own any property in this town. He pays no taxes yet he wants to RAISE YOUR TAXES.
SAY NO TO PHIL MALONE'S TAX INCREASE. SAY NO TO BOTTILLO AND VALLEE.
Guess what: the town has to pay those kind if bills too. Think that stuff is free? Taxes go up! Bottom line. Ask Kathy Jimino. Larger % increase, 30% of your tax bill goes to county, 20 to town. Much bigger increase from the county, for much less. Lets talk about that.
ReplyDeleteAnon 8:30... You sound pathetically ridiculous, you're trying to compare apples against oranges. Let's talk about the years of fiscal mismanagement in East Greenbush.
DeleteLet's talk about cutting some expenses before we talk about funding things we don't need. Saying stuff like "taxes go up" as though it were a law is just plain stupid.
ReplyDeleteIf it's not clear by now it never will be. We are a little over a week away from Election Day. To me this election is all about fiscal responsibility.
ReplyDeleteOver the last decade the Democrat party has let us all down. They have literally turned our Hometown into a very discouraging Headline.
They squandered our tax dollars leaving us in terrible debt. Their apparent solution to the problem is to continue to raise our taxes and discredit anyone that try's to break this mindset.
The status quo, business as usual strategy of Phil Malone and his followers has to stop. So for me, my Election Day choices for Town Board are crystal clear.
Looking forward to November 5th.
Dear Gadfly: I long enjoyed your blog and greatly benefited from the discussions held here. Today, I have suggestion that may benefit your free thinking readers. Those who would like to blog out "talking points" and palm card material like 7:10 and 7:45 am today might be overlooked by gadfly and more comfortable on Demands or their political party website. We should be able to expect your usual thoughtful discussion and important research here. One shining example of a high quality contributor is Dwight who did a fabulous job describing our recent meeting in an insightful historical context. His observations about Mr. Malone are refreshing and accurate. My observation on Mr. Malone speaking his mind and Mr. Langley"s inability to explain his vote is the same. We, the public are owed explanations. They are the basis of necessary political discourse.
ReplyDeleteWe are not only owed explanations, but we have a right to ask questions at every level of government, and not have to worry about repercussions. This is not the case in this town, last I checked there are only a few of us using are names.
DeleteAnon 11:07 Are you saying that 7:10 and 7:45 shouldn't be allowed to freely think and express themselves? You appear to be trying to exert a subliminal control here to in effect silence their expression of free speech. It was my impression that this blog encouraged diversification and expression of ones thoughts. By the way have you given any thought to where your going to cut your monthly budget to pay for Phil Malone's tax increase. That is if you happen to own property. Oh one more thing did you realize Phil Malone does NOT own any property in East Greenbush, yet he has no problem digging into your pockets.
DeleteNothing subliminal about my comments. I was suggesting to the Gadfly that we do not need to read the same old talking points every morning. I will concede that Matters and DiMartino are nice ladies and that they want the jobs and pledge to work hard. I will not concede that they are the most qualified candidates or that they are adequately prepared for the work before our town.
DeleteIt looks like you and the Gadfly agree that these items should be published here and since it is his blog, so be it. Thanks for the opportunity to be heard, Don.
@6:42 AM - I do own property and I would like to explain how that works. When a landlord sets a rent he includes his/her expenses in setting the rent. The tax is included in the rent or the landlord would go out of business. I do not know how Mr Malone compensates his landlord for his living quarters and, unlike Ed Gilbert who has an interest in where elected officials sleep, I do not wish to know. I suspect, however, that the Malone family dynamic is much like the growing national trend of adult children living with their parents. Data indicates that these adults make a significant, positive contribution to the household. I submit that Mr. Malone pays taxes like all residents of East Greenbush. That being said, I am of the opinion that Mr. Malone clearly stated that Mr. Langley's revenue estimates are inaccurate. Does Mr. Langley agree? He did not respond. Can he back up his estimates? who knows, he did not respond.
DeleteYou know what is exasperating about this tax increase discussion is that there is a lot of huffing and puffing and harrumphing to build up the perception that the majority knows what it is talking about when the assertion is made that a tax increase is necessary. Comparison with the County is fallacious. The most difficult thing to take is the fact that the majority has ignored every recommendation related to expense reduction made over the last several years, and has in fact done just the opposite....no hiring freeze, no documentation of savings from the half million dollar retirement incentive, no workload analysis, etc....When the list of actions related to expense reductions has been addressed, we might take seriously the tax increase issue. Until then, it's just so much blown smoke
DeleteI would like to thank Ms. DiMartino and Ms. Matters for their visit to my home last evening during their campaign for Town Board. As a life long resident of East Greenbush I had already heard a great deal about them both and have been keeping up with their visions for our town in the local Advertiser.
ReplyDeleteThey both expressed a very sincere desire to serve on our town board and recognized the difficult issues that face our town along with expressing a commitment to work hard to improve our fiscal problems.
They also said they would work hard to stabilize and work to reduce our property taxes. It was their where they both earned my vote.
The campaign slogan on their literature saying take " The Smart Way Forward " is very appropriate and refreshing.
I wish them both success on November 5th.
Dear 7:39 AM:
DeleteUnfortunately, I haven't lived in East Greenbush for all of my life. My family and I moved here about five years ago. Since moving in, .we have been active in a number of community activities, including Pop Warner and the East Greenbush Castleton Little League. We volunteer at and are members of the Friends of the East Greenbush Community Library.
Like you, .we are enthusiastic readers of the Advertiser and have also been able to keep up with the postings by the candidates.
Although. we are not life long residents, we love East Greenbush and will certainly be voting for those candidates we believe will best represent the residents of East Greenbush on election day.
Does anyone know if the comments on TALKS about a debate are true? I would be very disappointed in DiMartino and Matters if it is true that they refused to debate. That would also be a bad sign for the future. I just cannot vote yes for 4 more years of elected officials with blank stares.
ReplyDeleteThe only debate going on over on talks is between Bottillo and Vallee. They are debating whether or not it's worth wasting any more time on this whole idea. One sitting there saying I got roped into this and the other saying this isn't what I thought it would be. Both seem to agree it was a big mistake to have gotten involved.
Delete@ 9:14 AM,
DeleteI had a great talk with Vallee and Bottillo yesterday that directly contradicts your point. They told me they were looking forward to a debate. They each seemed to be very enthusiastic about it.
Perhaps you can tell us what Deb and Mary Ann's plans are?
Dear Gadfly,
ReplyDeleteDo you have any updates about the debate? I'm sure Mrs. DiMartino and Mrs. Matters are chomping at the bit to distinguish themselves from their opponents. Go get them ladies!
Gadfly, would you please post when and where the debate is happening?
Thank you.
I've heard absolutely nothing. I'd probably be the last to know anyway......
DeleteThis is interesting. Normally, the Democrats run away from debates as fast as bears from bees when they try to take honey. Now they want to debate? Sounds like the majority has entered their hour of desperation. The two candidates have had over two months (at least) to tell EG residents their vision for the town. Trying to do it all in the last week of the campaign is a sign that theirs may be a losing campaign.
DeleteMy family and I will be voting for Matters and DiMartino. I believe that Mr. Langley should be given a chance to run the town with a majority. If this majority is no different from the current majority in how they do things, then I will gladly beat the drum for third party candidates in 2011.
Well here it is on the debate issue boys and girls.....from sources I trust. Nobody challenged anybody to debate. Neither side wants a debate. Real options were out there by people who could pull it off. Again, neither side wants a debate.
ReplyDeleteDear Don,
DeleteWould you have any idea why DiMartino and Matters don't want to debate? They say they support reform issues. Or am I missing something?
In my experience, the classic political strategy is.....if you're ahead, you don't need to debate.
DeleteDear Don,
DeleteSo unfortunately, in this instance good politics trumps good government. That's too bad. I had hoped for better.
So the "reformers" don't want to debate because they believe they are ahead? So much for transparency in government.
DeleteAnd that's so sad ...
There was a great article on the front page of the TU this morning relating how municipalities get to exclude bonded debt related to sewer "improvements" from their financial statement productions. I can't find a link to it on the TU site so if you find one let me know. It certainly relates to how a junk bond town like East Greenbush can get bonding for $14 million in poop projects. Looks like an "only in New York" gimmick to me. We get to have debt which we don't have to show on our financial statements. Like having a credit card paid off by Grandma....only Grandma's dead.
ReplyDeleteMy read of that article is that if EG residents want to see the debt for the sewer project carried on the Town's financial stateme t as debt, they should vot no o e the ballot issue to extend the current arrangement which excludes it. Right?
ReplyDeleteThat's my "read" too. The TU finally got a link up to the story. Here it is:
Deletehttp://www.timesunion.com/default/article/Paying-through-the-nose-4929472.php
Why wouldn't you want this type bonding excluded from showing on the financials if it would improve our financial picture?
DeleteBecause if really doesn't improve "our financial picture." The same taxpayers are on the hook for the debt. It's like keeping a separate set of books. The total liability is the sum of the two. It's just a gimmick to get around the State law which limits the amount of debt a municipality can take on.
DeleteDear 8:24 PM,
ReplyDeleteI'm a NO vote on the Constitutional Amendment.
To bad only grandmas dead
ReplyDeleteLooks like the boys who play behind the backstop are acting out again.
DeleteA friend advises that the State Police should be advised of things like 10:12 AM.
DeleteRelax folks,
ReplyDeleteProposal No. 3 would exclude sewer debt when calculating a Town's debt for Constitution Debt Limitation purposes only.
Proposal No. 3 does not exclude the debt from being included in a Town's financial statements or other statements.
The language of the proposal, according to http://www.northnet.org/stlawrenceaauw/2013LWV6BallotIssues.pdf reads as follows:
"The proposed amendment to Article 8, section 5 of the Constitution would extend for ten years, until January 1, 2024, the authority of counties, cities, towns, and villages to exclude from their constitutional debt limits indebtedness contracted for the construction or reconstruction of sewage facilities."
The link discusses all of the Proposals, telling what each Proposal does and its background.
I wonder how Cheryll Vallee likes all the trash that is getting posted under her fund raiser thread over on talks. She made a huge mistake hooking up with that group.
ReplyDeleteDear 7:39 PM:
ReplyDeleteI join Conservative Party Leader, Mike Long, in urging a No vote on Proposition 3.
I'm a no on prop 3 also. If it is defeated, the taxpayers will have a better of understanding about how much debt their localities are incurring.
ReplyDeleteAgreed. I don't know why anyone would vote for 3. Am I missing something?
ReplyDeleteRead about the proposal, http://www.northnet.org/stlawrenceaauw/2013LWV6BallotIssues.pdf
DeleteDear 6:15 AM:
DeleteThanks for the link and I appreciate your assistance, but I have taken a hard look at Proposition 3 and will be voting in the negative.
On the debate issue, ladies and gents.....I have an e-mail from Mary Ann Matters stating directly that she has had NO invitation to debate. It's signed. And therefore has credibility over the anonymous blather from supposed Dems on Talks asserting that the Dems have challenged the Rep duo and have been rejected.
ReplyDeleteFolks, one important fact to remember. We have a new ethics code to provide necessary checks and balances, but that doesn't mean it needs to be tested at every board meeting. We will have two Hart family members sitting on our town board if Bottillo were to be elected. Bottillo and Mangold sitting on our town board just doesn't make sense. I want as much assurance that decisions on issues relating to our town are being made in everyone's best interest and not to just support the Hart, Maney, and Malone families. This election has the potential to provide change that could increase the odds of a broader representation to include us all instead of the limited few as it exists. I will be supporting DiMartino and Matters on my Independence line, the legislatures, along with Paul Morgan for surrogate judge who is replacing Judge Chris
ReplyDeleteHummel. The Independence Party has a great slate of candidates this year and I wish them all good luck on November 5th.
I have always prided myself on voting for the person as opposed to just voting the straight Party line. I try to closely examine and evaluate each individual candidate's qualifications and experience before I cast my vote.
ReplyDeleteIn any event, this is indeed an important election and I urge all eligible voters to join me at the polls on Election Day.
God bless America!!
Anonymous 8:49: The strength of the new ethics code is in preventing conflicts of interest on projects which come before the town board; it's weakness is in the area of appointments and what insiders can do after they leave town government. I realize the Hart angle sounds like a good campaign issue but I honestly don't see it. Do you think the Harts had trouble getting projects approved before Sue Mangold was elected to the town board? Do you think they'll have problems after she retires from public service? If you did an analysis of Hart family projects from the last 20 years I bet you would find no difference in their approval rates before she was on the board and since she's been on the board. When you look at 9 & 20 do you really want to prevent the Harts from developing their properties there? It is critical that we are vigilant whenever projects of board relatives come before the town and it's imperative that town board members follow the recusal and abstention rules in the new Code of Ethics but do you have an example of a specific project that only got approved because Sue Mangold was on the town board? There are two sides to the issue of ethics: one is that we hold our elected officials to a strict set of rules; the other is that we don't accuse them of unethical behavior just because we don't like them or are backing other candidates.
ReplyDeleteI realize we are in the final days of a campaign and what I wrote here won't be popular on this blog but I refuse to suspend the fairness doctrine on behalf of either campaign. I believe the issues of appointments, hiring of consultants, and the $14 million wastewater treatment bonanza for political insiders are far more important issue than the approval of Hart family projects. And, quite frankly, I don't see that changing if the republicans gain the majority.
The thing is, Jack, that it's just not necessary to have such a narrow base from which candidates are drawn. There are 17,000 residents of East Greenbush. The problem, as I see it, is that candidates are most often chosen by the political parties for their potential loyalty to the respective machine, rather than for any professed desire and ability to do public service. It's focused on the few, rather than the many. And it's tragic.
ReplyDeleteDear 4:42 PM,
DeleteSadly, that is true for both the Dems and the Reps. Certainly more so for the Reps at the County level. That's why they still are interested in receiving a big piece of the $14 million wastewater treatment bonanza for themselves after the local elections.
I think Rick Matters was the first "outsider" to be elected in a long time.
ReplyDeleteI'm guessing that Ms. Vallee took a look at the crap on Talks and prevailed on the perps to shut it down for a while. She's got too much class to put up with what they have been selling.
ReplyDeleteCheryl Vallee is a class act!
ReplyDeleteAnonymous 4:42: You make a great point. The pool of potential candidates is too small and is based on what are perceived to be the loyalties of those might run. I would consider running for town board but an independent run is costly and likely to fail while neither party would dare nominate someone like me because I won't be told what to do or how to think. Plus I'm for lower taxes and smaller government and that undermines the patronage and nepotism machines which are why candidates must be loyal in the first place.
ReplyDeleteGee Wiz Jack why didn't you ask to kiss Phil Malone's ring. He was begging people all over town to run.
DeleteYou're right on the money in your analysis Jack. This berg has been run for the benefit of both Reps and Dems and their machines for quite a while. I'd like to see a rebellion like what happened with the Ethics Board in Malta (per today's Gazette). Looks like the Ethics Board took on the Town Board for sitting on a complaint which would not have been good for election prospects.
ReplyDeleteHere's the link: http://www.dailygazette.com/weblogs/around-saratoga/2013/oct/29/ethics-committee-malta-clerk-misused-office/
The CFAC meeting is scheduled for Monday the 4th. Just in time for a rousing approval of the majority's tax increase before the election. Just like last year. Just watch.
ReplyDeleteCan someone please tell me if the taxpayers are paying the salaries of the town employees who are blogging all day on EG talks while they are supposed to be working? Very sad. This town needs some serious changes.
ReplyDeleteEG talks just responded to a comment of mine on Talks without posting the comment. My comment was in response to "Watch and Learn's" assertion that "Ole Ercole" is going to steal the Town blind should the Reps gain a majority. My comment went something like this:
ReplyDelete"What you guys don't seem to understand is that the political protection which has been available for the current majority won't be there for "Ole Ercole" should he get himself involved in any mischief. I'd be delighted to see oversight and intervention."
I think this is an important point. We've made a lot of progress in getting the workings of government out in the light of day. We'd have more if it weren't for less than passionate activity from Dem controlled oversight on the State level. Take a look at the newspaper. Looks to me like the FBI is back on the local scene, and may be looking for work. Not a time for mischief.
Dear Don:
ReplyDeleteCheryl Vallee serves as the Executive Director of a local Not-For Profit. Her responsibilities include daily and long-term oversight of employees, project completion and expenditures.
If elected, her qualifications and her experience will continue the progress made by interested citizens towards the more responsible and transparent government that the citizens of East Greenbush deserve.
You sure sound like a fresh New Democrat rather than an old time Republican. I am a real Republican. Most not for profit groups feed off the taxpayer fulfilling some social program. Not exactly the most conservative minded groups.
DeleteDear 5:15 AM:
DeleteWith all due respect. You have a somewhat mistaken view of the role of most not for profit groups.
Most governmental entities are eager to partner with not for profit groups to more efficiently provide needed services to their local residents through shared programs that save taxpayers money and reduce government bureaucracy and spending..
It doesn't get any more small r republican than that.
I'm with you, Tom. Some good examples of local not for profits are Concerns U and Greenbush Child Carring, both recently recognized by the EG Town Board. Both democrats and republicans took part in the recognitions. I am a registered Conservative and regularly support Concerns U in addition to paying my taxes. In the. past I paid for services at Greenbush Child Care.
DeleteTo Real Republican 5:15 AM and Tom Grant 9:59 AM. I was a volunteer coach and team manager with the East Greenbush- Castleton Little League for many years and I remember running into Tom at the fields. My wife also volunteered in the concession stand when our boys were playing. We were happy to help out this not for profit activity. Now that my wife and I are what they call senior citizens, we still try to help out whenever we can while watching our grandchildren play.
DeleteNot for profit people are good for the community.
Is it true that Phil Malone and Sue Mangold voted for yet another tax increase for 2014?
ReplyDelete@ Tom Grant: A shameless, but timely, plug for another East Greenbush not for profit. The East Greenbush Friends of the Library is in the midst of its donated book sale going on this weekend at the East Greenbush Library. Stop by to check out some inexpensive reading material. Proceeds go towards providing services to library goers that are not paid for by taxpayers. The Friends of the Library is another example of a local volunteer not for profit that allows people to give back to the community.
ReplyDeleteWhile I do agree with the whole not for profit's that you have pointed out, and yes they are supposed provide the needed service more efficiently as has been pointed out, but lets not forget that the W.F. Bruen Rescue squad is considered a not for profit. As we all no they have been anything but more efficient.
ReplyDeletePlease correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Bruen classified as a Public Benefit Corporation?
ReplyDeleteI believe that Bruen is a 501(c)(3). As I understand it, PBC's are organized under the Public Authorities Law in NYS, in which case the Board of Directors would be appointed by government.
ReplyDelete