Our friend Dwight Jenkins introduced this issue back in February on the Prays blog. The Times Union took note of the larger issue (without mentioning East Greenbush. Go figure), in a recent editorial. I suppose that folks are inclined to do the “wink and nod” response to poop in the Hudson, because everybody supposedly does it. But the exploration of the political context and time-line is very revealing.
The 2000 audit by OSC of East Greenbush finances concluded that (with post-audit adjustments) the general sewer fund was solvent. By 2008, the combined deficits in the sewer and water funds was $2.5 million. This was due to un-repaid interfund borrowing for the benefit of the Town’s General Fund. (At the moment, I don’t have the breakdown between the sewer/water funds.)
Interestingly, in 2000 the Town signed its first Consent Order related to dumping POOP into the Hudson. I won’t take the space to detail all the FOILs, but suffice it to say that the Town continued to dump POOP into the Hudson for the following 11 years, culminated by the most recent letter from DEC. This letter states that …..”The Department was recently made aware that over 50 new sewer connections have been made to the Town’s sanitary sewer system since 2009 without prior written approval from the Department.
But what does all this really mean in the context of the political environment? This is where things get decided isn’t it? Well here’s a suggestion, summarized from a conversation with an “old salt” who’s been around for a while.
East Greenbush has been over capacity
They knew it
They didn't care
They didn't want to give up the approval rights for development to the County
Still don't
The sewer fund makes money
Cheaper to pay the fine than give up the cash flow that funded other departments
Status quo was easier
They didn't care
They paid the fine
They kept approving projects
Everyone made money
They are still approving projects
An issue was made of this a few years ago and the matter was ignored.. They can not afford to update the facility to handle the capacity. They can not bifurcate the system and split treatment with the county, it's an all or nothing process. They don't want to give up the approval right for projects to the County because that is where the power is. If you can grant approvals, you can bring in donations. If the County has a say, it takes power away from the Town and donations are split between the Town and County and two different parties. It's that simple.
The sewer fund makes money and has been where they have been taking money to fund their underfunded budget lines in the General Fund. They owe it over a million dollars. The right thing to do is to shift the control and treatment of our effluent over to the county. Sewers can more easily be expanded out to Schodack and beyond if you do. The Dems in EG haven't wanted to do that. They should put a stop to Carver Court right now because they want to go to apartments and don't have the capacity to treat the additional effluent. Development should by right come to a stop, make the switch and go from there. It isn't an over night solution thought because there is no switch to flip. They have to build the connector from our plant to the County system which will take more than a couple of months.
They never disclosed fines or told the public about them, they just paid it because it was easier.
I can’t find any Resolutions or Board records which would have made the fines to DEC or the Consent Orders a matter of public record. Maybe somebody out there can help. Bottom line, in my view, is that the Town’s administration from 2000 through 2011 created a huge (secret) problem which has been dumped in the lap of Keith Langley. He’s supposed to be signing a new Consent Order.
I’d suggest that Mr. Langley convene a community meeting to detail the history of the problems we have with processing POOP and make the matter open to ownership by ALL the stakeholders who live in East Greenbush – not just the “establishment” which has been living off keeping the secret and paying the minimal fines.
I’d also suggest that if this situation had been public knowledge prior to November of 2011, there would likely be an entirely different majority on the Town Board.
An Open Letter to the East Greenbush Town Board
ReplyDelete“Does it make any sense?”
Does it make any sense to have spent $500,000 on an early retirement option when you cannot account for the savings AND we are polluting the Hudson River because the waste treatment plant is over capacity?
Does it make any sense to have spent what you did on solar projects with such ridiculously long, long return on that investment when we are polluting the Hudson River because the waste treatment plant is over capacity?
Does it make any sense to have “borrowed” $1,000,000 from the sewer fund when you cannot pay it back within legal time frames and when we are polluting the Hudson River because the waste treatment plant is over capacity?
Does it make any sense to continue to approve projects and add volume when we are polluting the Hudson River because the waste treatment plant is over capacity?
Does it make any sense to add overhead and additional positions on the Town Hall payroll when you have already taken funds from the sewer fund because the general fund has been over spent?
Does it make any sense to have an Ethics Board you each appointed when you are ignoring them and blowing off their long, hard work on a revised ethics code?
Is there a damn thing you do right because it is simply the right thing to do or is every decision endlessly filtered through your obsessive needs to pad the town payroll with your relatives and friends and feed the Machine?
Does anything they do make any sense?
ReplyDeleteJim, think about the huge list of things the Town Board has tried to keep hidden from citizens. Our credit rating, the sewage discharges into the river, Malone's notary mess and on and on and on goes the list.
ReplyDeleteBut these are, after all, our elected officials. Duly placed in their jobs by the voters of our town. So, "we have met the enemy and they is us" (from Pogo).
I thought the Town Board had a "Going Green" policy (you know, all that wasted money on solar panels; money to friends of Malone). It sounds like they actually have a "Going Brown" policy.
ReplyDeletePooper scooper needed here!
ReplyDeleteHow many of those 11 years were Cristo, Danaher and Matters on the Board?
How many of those 11 years were Malone, Mangold and O’Brien on the Town Board?
Sewer and Water Funds ran surpluses in 2008 and NOT deficits. Fund balances were positive.
Does Fuji Film & Albany International ring any bells?
Just so we're clear on the concepts here.....Of course the sewer and water funds ran surpluses in 2008, and that money was loaned to the general and highway funds - and not repaid. I think that creates a "deficit" in sewer/water if the money that should be in the funds is not there, but elsewhere being used for purposes other than permitted by the originating funds. That $2.5 million should have been devoted to improving sewer capacity, shouldn't it?
DeleteThe first signatures I've seen on a Consent Order is Angelini...and also McCoy. So I guess the question goes to all persons who have sat on the Board since 1999. It's the old Watergate question, Howard Baker's question abut Nixon..."What did they know, and when did they know it?" I'd love to see some documentation that these issues were actually officially deliberated.
The locus of power when it comes to development and the impact on infrastructure is the Planning Board, isn't it? What was going on there in the last 11 years?
Bottom line is that a Order on Consent means that development which impacts sewer capacity is supposed to be officially approved by DEC. That apparently didn't happen - over and over again. Multiple fingerprints on this mischief, I'd say. And we deserve better.
Deliberations would have to occur in open sessions.
DeleteMaybe MOM will get the house in order!
Also, you might want to check into the duties of the planning board, there friend.
Nuttin on Fuji Film & Albany International, eh?
The Orders on Consent which I've briefly looked at state that the lack of Poop from closed Fuji and AI can be made up with new Poop from new development, subject to the approval of DEC. The fact is that this Poop deficit was easily covered with new Poop from new development, and then additional unapproved Poop was put into the system without the approval of DEC. And the letter I quoted (from December of 2011) said that 50 new connections had been made without the knowledge of DEC since 2009.
DeleteDoesn't the Planning Board make recommendations after its usual "hard look" about the environmental impact of projects?
I don't want to play word games or political games with this issue. The fact is, however, that control of "planning" in ANY community drives money. Its one of the "deliverables" that ANY administration uses to stay in power. It doesn't have a "D" on it or an "R" on it.
Why couldn't responsible public officials simply state openly to the community that we've got to put a moratorium on development until we get our Poop house in order....and this is what it will entail? Seems to me that we might be bumping up against Ethical issues here, but I've read recently that the Board has much more important things to do.......Go figure.
For the love of all that is holy 5:27 AM! It does not matter who shared blame in the past. How does answering your question alter, in any way, today's reality? Does your question suggest that today's leaders may abdicate their responsibilities because prior leaders did as well? Where do we go from there? Stuck on some endless merry-go-round of hundreds of comments sponsored by the EG Talks blog and their own complusive obsession with Mike Cristo? I pray not.
ReplyDeleteLook, there are decisions being made in the here and now that need to be examined and questioned. We need to make sure that repeating any mistakes or bad decisions from the past are not continued in the present and into the future. Can't you see that?
I don't see this as an issue of blaming one party or the other. After all, both democrats and republicans were in power on local, state and national levels for the last eleven years. It has come to light now, and what are we going to do about it? We all know the Hudson River is one of the most polluted bodies of water around. Now we know that all in power have been turning their backs and noses away from the problem. The time has come for THIS BOARD and the PLANNING BOARD to do something about it.
ReplyDeleteThis environmental issue affects all of us. I urge all who can to come to the next board meeting and ask THIS BOARD what they are going to do? After all, one of the Board members at the last meeting indicated the consent order trumped ethics. This is the perfect time for our new Supervisor to take a stand and do the right thing for everybody's sake.
your the folks playin the blame game! All that D is bad and all thats R is truth justice and the american flag.
ReplyDeleteexcept for Suzanne it seems.
Boy are you guys lucky that I'm married to Suzanne. If I didn't have to observe the rules promulgated by "she who must be obeyed," you'd be shaking in your boots.
DeleteThank you Suzanne, and Ray. To me it is not a blame game either it is fix the dam problem. Or maybe the state should raise the price on the fine? These are our waterways, and stuff like this is just uncalled for.
ReplyDeleteIt does not matter Dem or Rep, it matters right from wrong
Bingo Suzanne and Jim C., I agree. It's time for all to come together and do the right thing. What can be more important than managing sewage in any community? Our tax dollars are being wasted on fines when it can be put to better use. The cart is being put before the horse in this instance. Blame anyone you want in the past, but that does nothing to fix the the problem of untreated sewage currently being dumped into the Hudson by our town.
ReplyDeleteMr. Gadfly the history of the dumping and why it continues raises eyebrows for sure. Now the pressing matter is, it must come to a stop. I would hope that the Town Board and the Town Attorney would be prepared to explain why this practice would continue or the steps to be taken to rectify the problem.
It's my understanding that the water/sewer taxes generates enough money that it can be borrowed from and not be paid back. Seems the fund should have enough money to fix the sewage problem if left alone.
Who is the person or persons responsible for taking the money out of water/sewage fund and transferring it into the general fund. Is it the Supervisor, the Town Board and who makes the recommendation to do so?
Citizen involvement in govt. is ALWAYS a good thing. Over the years, many decisions made by our town board, has been looked at as an ethical issue. Ethics is the foundation that motivates how any elected official will govern. Jack, if you are out there, the good citizens deserve nothing less than the highest ethical standards for every employee of our town.
Some people will see me as the bad guy along with Mr. Gadfly, but I'm really not. I'm just a town citizen who cares that's all. My family tells me I expect to much when it comes to politicians meeting my expectations. My response is, you have to start somewhere and why not have the bar raised as high as possible. My tax dollars are worth it.
This town has been underconsent for sewers longer then 11years.The fee for hooking up to the sewer was 5000.not sure what is is now.
ReplyDeleteEveryone don't hold your breath. Firstly, we have to look at who is on the board. What they are and what they have done.
ReplyDeleteWE have too much of one hand washing the other on that board. We all know it. So guess what! You are going to have to wait till election to make any changes again. Nothing will be done. You can ask all the questions. Good luck with getting answers.. cause it is going to continue.
This town board have no intentions with going HONEST. They will continue with the deals behind closed doors..
So my advice.. keep on pluggiing.. but don't hold your breath.
Old Ginny is not going to conform nor is Mangold or Malone..Too much is at steak for them ..
Of interest on this issue is this from WNYT:
ReplyDelete"Man charged with illegally dumping raw sewage into Catskill Creek
Posted at: 04/09/2012 12:12 PM | Updated at: 04/09/2012 1:12 PM
By: WNYT Staff
A Westchester man was charged with illegally dumping raw sewage into the Catskill Creek.
Police say the man dumped the septic tank contents from a rental property he owns in Leeds, into a nearby drain.
Tests determined the sewage flowed into the municipal storm water system. The man is now in the Greene County Jail."
How is it that this guy is in the slammer and our Town officials are not subject to the same jeopardy?
No pooping aside. What the heck is going on down in Town Hall.
ReplyDeleteIt seems we just keep coming up with more crap..
NO pun intended there.
Why hasn't the state stepped in? that is what I wanted to know.
Not sure what a foil cost. But you know, I wondered did that money go in a general fund or a beer fund, and if not being used for the beer maybe a nice tip..
I give you a tip.. Dont' buy a home in East Greenbush.. East Greenbush is being run by a bunch of very ignorant useless people.
They definately don't have any of us covered.. So watch your back.
If Ms. O'Brien runs for a council seat next year and refuses to address the untreated POOP being dumped in the Hudson River, that would make good campaign literature in 2013. We need to have town officials who are willing to fix this problem. As for now, I would hope Supervisor Langley would bring a resolution to the table to fix the sewage problem and bring it to a vote. If it were to pass then great for our town and the good ole Hudson River.
ReplyDeleteI'm looking at three Town Board Resolutions (47-2008, 48-2008 and 59-2008) which relate to water and sewer construction and services agreements with Rensselaer City and County and the City of Troy. If I am reading these documents correctly, and I am open to correction in this matter, the Board already gave the Supervisor the requisite authority. These resolutions are available on the Town's website in the minutes for the April 9, 2008 and the May 14, 2008 meetings. Here are the last three resolves from 59-2008, dated May 14, 2008:
ReplyDelete"RESOLVED, that the Supervisor is authorized to execute a Sewer Service Agreement and a Water Service Agreement in substantially the forms annexed hereto as Exhibits A and B, respectively, and it is further
RESOLVED, the the Supervisor is authorized to execute a Water Facilities Agreement and a Sewerage Facilities Operating Agreement, in substantially the forms annexed hereto as Exhibits C and D, respectively, and it is further
RESOLVED that the Town Board hereby reaffirms Resolution 47-2008 and 48-2008."
From what I am able to discover, the Sewer stuff in these resolutions never happened. Some of the Water stuff may have.
If the authorization was provided, why wasn't it accomplished? I have a sinking feeling though (remember the foggy information about what Rensselaer was supposed to owe East Greenbush related to water?) that something got seriously lost in execution. Maybe it was in the "details" of Exhibits A, B, C, and D. I have the uncomfortable feeling that there is something in the "control over development" and all the "linkages, mechanisms and interdigitations" that go with that, that put the skids on some of the above. After all, everything has to be submitted to the politics meat-grinder.
You are completely mis-informed as to the "history" of this debacle.
ReplyDeleteI would suggest that you delve a little bit deeper prior to throwing around any further accusations about any recent Town Board or the current Board.
I will not add fuel to the fire here , but suffice it to say that you do NOT have all the pertinent data in this matter.
If you read carefully above, I asked for further information on these issues. You're right in calling it a "debacle." What I have is what is on the public record and what Mr. Jenkins was able to obtain via FOIL from DEC. The fact is that this pooping in the Hudson has been going on for at least eleven years, and there have been a number of factors introduced into the discussion which suggest "reasons" for NOT fixing the problems. George Pataki's DEC Commissioners also signed off on the Consent Orders and waived portions of the fines.
DeleteIf you possess the complete history of this debacle and the "pertinent data," here's the place to post it. Simply saying "you don't know what I know, so shut up" is certainly not a positive contribution to the discussion.
As to where the responsibility lies, isn't it fair to say that it lies with those in elective and appointive positions at the time that the "debacle" was happening? What did they know, when did they know it and what did they do about it? My guess is that if this matter had not gained some publicity, the same old "winking and nodding" at the problem would have continued.
I want to know how one guy dumping sewage into creek can get fined so much and serve time in jail, and a town dumping sewage into the Hudson gets a slap on the wrist?
ReplyDeleteI am reading all the post here and I have to say.. It is nice we have all the infomation but I really think that the election is what is going to get us the information we want to know.
ReplyDeleteWe have one down and three more to go. Time Up..next..
This is the only way to clean this town up of all the crap.
I just feel like we are all being stalled here and this majority Town Board seems to thrive on stalling. They think they own our town and we owe them something. Stipends, for my example.. I know, that is in the past but we all wouldn't have known if we didn't foil, and had people asking these questions. We have members on the board that have family connections in all places and they seem to be able to withold information just because.
I would respectfully disagree with your analysis , in that the same garbage went on under other Boards and it was just that there was no way for the public to legally obtain the information that is so easily obtained thru FOILS today. Its not that I'm sticking up for any of them , but to say that different people would make all these huge changes is both unrealistic and more than likely not going to happen. East Greenbush is not any different than any other local municipality , just different names and faces. And , BTW: we do not have ALL the information either.
DeleteWe need to begin the process of positive change. There is NO indication of any kind that the present majority of O'Brien, Mangold and Malone are supportive of positive change. I challenge their political supporters to provide examples. The present majority is all about maintaining the status quo - which means jobs for family and friends. They care about nothing else - the 2012 organizational meeting ended any meaning debate on this point. We saw ugly power politics for the benefit of their family members - not one damn thing else.
ReplyDeleteOnly when we break away from the same old/ same old mentality will we see and expect positive change.
Okay, so how many years Ginny O been on that same board? and even held two offices at the same time.. Illegally and all.
ReplyDeleteThat one women show needs to go. I think you are nieve to believe that they are not playing a part in this.
Or thinking that they have no knowledge to any of this information. I am sure at some point these people have become aware.
I am sure if this has been an issue for so many years these board members knew. Old ones and new ones.
So the news ones inherited the problem. Not to say they didn't know. or they did know.. But they should do something to fix it.
ReplyDeleteSo talk to the public about it and start a chain to solve the problem, Stop being silent and start talking.
Lets fix it.
Oh I feel higher taxes coming..
This problem like others can not and will not be fixed overnight. This is a given.
ReplyDeleteWill it be fixed fast enough to please everyone? No. This is also a given.
The Town is working to get the house in order.
The problem is, Anonymous, that the matter was known about over eleven years ago, but never addressed. (According to some comments, it's been going on for a lot longer.) This was before the "spillage" which apparently prompted the first Order on Consent. In January of 2000 the matter was raised by a Board member by the name of Seward, but a majority of Angelini, Halloran, Reilly and McCabe apparently did not address it. See this article from the January 5, 2000 issue of the Times Union.
Deletehttp://albarchive.merlinone.net/mweb/wmsql.wm.request?oneimage&imageid=6020700
Records indicate that instead of addressing the issue, $2,500,000 was transferred in subsequent years from the sewer and water funds to the general fund, used for other things - and never repaid. It took the State Comptroller (in 2008) and the recent FOILS by some concerned citizens to bring the matter into enough light for it to be addressed. Frankly, when I commented several years ago on the OSC 2008 audit, I didn't have any idea that it could be connected to sewage in the Hudson.
I think the "given" is that municipal government around here will not function without the light and heat provided by the common taxpayer. As my friend Dwight Jenkins has observed, things that were referred to as happening by "precedent," are now referred to in the "past tense" because of the daylight introduced by citizen/taxpayers. It's not because of the leadership of public officers. Sad.
The article you referred to in the TU was amazing. Only one council person cared about fixing the sewage plant problem. I wonder how many care now. Thanks for posting the article.
ReplyDeleteLet us all be bluntly honest with each other. The EG Town Boards - all of them - avoid the tough decisions. Like many politicians they favor easy and meaningless photo ops to impress voters who do not know any better.
ReplyDeleteTough issues - like the sewage plant, the various negative audits and credit ratings and the latest issue - that damnable Ethics Board with their instance - perish the thought - that the Town Board operate ethically all get pushed off and ignored.
We elect leaders who do not have the slightest wish to lead. We elect leaders who see being elected as their endless excuse to
favor family and friends with jobs in town.
Town taxpayers should be aware that on the Agenda for tomorrow's Board meeting is a resolution scheduling a public hearing in May on the Ethics Code presented to the Board by the Ethics Board. We should be able to see whether Ms. OBrien, Ms. Mangold and Mr. Malone will be able to support the resolution, and perhaps discover the actual content of any opposition they might have to the draft submitted to them by the Ethics Board. I'm quite sure that this meeting is well worth attending.
ReplyDeleteAlso of note is the agreement of the Board at the pre-board meeting to a bifurcation of the public comment period into two elements at the suggestion of the Supervisor. The first will be a comment period related only to matters which are on the agenda. The second, taking place after the resolutions have been dispatched, will be devoted to general public comments. What I'll be watching for is an attempt to adjourn the meeting after the Resolutions and before the general public comment period.
UPDATE....The Draft Ethics Code produced by the Ethics Board is now a matter of public record, having been distributed with the agenda for tonight's Board meeting. We'll be having some commentary on the meeting as well as a link to the video of tonight's meeting as soon as I figure out how to get it up on You-Tube. (Nate, where are you???)
ReplyDeleteMy own feeling is that there was a real sea change in tonight's board meeting. Slowly but surely the government of the Town is being made more responsive to the people who own it---the taxpayer, as opposed to those who have "run" it by default.
Check this out from the 4/27/12 edition of the Supervisor's report on the Town's website:
ReplyDelete"I am happy to announce the beginning of the Town’s Sewer Rehabilitation Project. The first project will consist of an effort to mitigate what is commonly known as I & I, or Inflow and Infiltration.
The Inflow aspect of I & I was chosen to kick the project off. A sample of homes has been identified as having a sump pump outlet connected to the Sanitary Sewer system. The sump pump outlets will be diverted from the sanitary sewer system to the stormwater drainage system. Current sump pump connections to the sanitary sewer system cause an unnecessary burden on the Town’s wastewater treatment plant, thus this project will prove to be an effective mitigation measure.
A special thanks goes to the residents of Massachusetts Avenue for their cooperation in the project. Their participation demonstrates a commitment to their community and an important change for East Greenbush."
Supervisor Langley is to be commended for showing the leadership to begin to address the problem which has been avoided for so long. I recall that several years ago property owners were surveyed on the question of whether their properties had sump pumps tied to the sewer system. That information is finally being put to use in an action plan.
I would still urge the Supervisor to convene a meeting of ALL stakeholders in the solution of the poop in the Hudson problem. We're starting to hear stories as to how the global issue will be addressed, and some reflect "special interests" which may not be to the benefit of the public at large. I would hope that we don't go down that road. Real transparency at the beginning would be a real change in the approach to governing.
Attorney representing Town (not Mr. Liccardi) asks COPS to remove Bill Lambdin from Channel 13 from the pre-Board meeting today.
ReplyDeleteYou just missed the best attended pre-Board meeting ever. Apparently Mr. Lambdin was there to interview the Supervisor about the poop in the Hudson and the succession of Orders on Consent since 2000. Apparently Mr. Langley didn't want to say anything.
We'll have more on this later, for sure. But here's what I just can't understand. Keith Langley took office a little more than four months ago and inherited a disaster with the Sewer District capacity problems. Odds are that he didn't know a thing about it - along with the rest of us. That problem has a long history with incompetence and self-serving governance written all over it. You can bet that those who have their fingerprints on activities which contributed to the problem are scrambling to cover their tracks - and putting pressure on Mr. Langley not to solve the problem to their detriment.
I just can't figure out why Keith won't say: "They did it, I didn't, but I'm trying to fix it." And in the process just lay out the facts so that all citizen stake-holders can know what is going on. Refusing to talk to Bill Lambdin, and allowing an attorney apparently representing the Town to call a cop to remove a reporter from a public meeting, just made the story irresistible.
And next week the Town Board will vote to spend $20,000 of OUR money to pay the latest fine in a disturbingly lost list of consent decrees and fines.
ReplyDeleteHow does that work? The town violates the law; gets caught, pays a fine and goes right back to violating the law? And every time that happens OUR money gets spent to cover up the incompetence or lazziness of our so called elected leaders on the Town Board?
Here's the point for me...
The lack of communication makes this a trust issue for me.
Violating the law and working to hide the facts and the truth from the public is a trust issue.
So, can we trust the Town Board? Do we need an ethics code more than ever?
Every East Greenbush citizen should show up at next week's meeting and really start paying attention to what the majority - Ginny O'Brien, Sue Mangold and Phil Malone are doing to manage - or sadly mismanage our town.
We, the taxpayers, are paying for their lack of competence and bad decisions.
Hey....Isn't "fixing tickets" what we do in our Town?
DeleteAll I can say was the scene was a complete drama. That lady lawyer was amazing, I saw no need for a police officer to enter the meeting room. Mr Lambdin stood his ground concerning his right and camera man to attend and film a public meeting. It's about time the media addressed this issue.
ReplyDeleteWthin so much of what needs positive change in our town troubling citizens there is also a very positive trend.
ReplyDeleteThe April Town Board meeting was well attended. And,by the way, everyone who spoke supported our hard working Ethics Board. The Ethics Board meeting this past Monday night had a record crowd of interested and concerned citizens in attendance. Same was true for yesterday's pre board meeting. With the amazing number of hits on this blog I think all this shows that people are really paying attention and care.
Next week, on Wednesday, May 16 at 7 PM is the next Town Board meeting. On the agenda are resolutions to move an ethics code to a public hearing. It is highly probable that that version of an ethics code will be the personal version prefered by Sue Mangold and Ginny O'Brien - we'll see.
Also on next week's Town Board meeting is the resolution to approve spending $20,000 of OUR money on the latest in a long series of fines by the DEC for violations of past consent decrees.
There's even more. Please show up. Our Ethics Board needs your support. Our Town Board members need to see and hear how people feel about ethics and consent decree fines paid with OUR tax dollars.
The ethics provision for financial disclosure and the majority's opposition to it is absurd. The financial disclosure, as I understand it, does not require ANY of them to list the value of their holdings, simply the fact that they have an interest of some magnitude in an entity. One of two approaches might make sense here in the way of a compromise. Increase the percentage of interest to a point where you have to note a "significant" or "substantial" interest to more than one-third interest in a company OR remove the percentage provision altogether and list ANY company in which you have an interest. It's easier that way. We don't need to know if you own a majority or 1 share, simply that you have an interest, a conflict and shouldn't vote on a resolution pertaining to that entity. This is more of an issue for Sue Mangold who has an interest in a number of the Hart family projects as well as a conflict voting on her brother's engineering projects.
ReplyDeleteRemoving the financial disclosure is opening a door to corruption and makes the ethics code a waste of time for everyone. No one should be privy to how much money you have or don't have, but YOU chose to run for public office. YOU put yourself out there. In doing so, you forfeit a certain amount of privacy. Deal with it!
Somebody needs to check this out, but I seem to remember that the 5% rule is in state statute somewhere.
DeleteIt really doesn't matter what Langley says to the media, although he does have an opportunity to simply to defer to the majority and note that his vote and opinion matter little, because control of the board lies with the democrats, ask them. The majority here tends to pound their chests about being in charge, except when there is a problem to deal with. They refuse to address a problem head on, likely because they lack the experience to deal with it intelligently. Phil Malone has no idea what to do about the sewer problem and O'Brien doesn't want to get involved with anything that is going to make her look bad or incompetent. Anyone looking for answers in Town should simply by pass the Supervisor and go right to the people who claim to be running the Town. O'Brien, Mangold and Malone! They have a lot to say when it's all fun and praise for things that don't really matter, but when it comes to our tax dollars, they are invisible! As for the Judge... it's clear we NEED an ethics code. The democrats in this town have gone too far taking advantage of our taxes and our trust! Whoever they replace Schilling with should be scrutinized very closely!
ReplyDeleteAnother angle to consider in the transfer of the $2.5 million from the Sewer and Water funds to the General fund is that the people who pay Sewer and Water taxes contributed to the "benefit" of all the citizens of EG whether they pay Sewer and Water taxes or not. Can the Sewer district members sue the Town for taking their money and spending it for others from whom it was not collected? Is the general Town-wide tax levy being used to repay the Sewer and Water funds?
ReplyDeleteThis bunch of clowns have got to go. What were they thinking? Pay the minimal fine, keep developing (Planning Board sign off), take donations, transfer funds to General fund, get Junk bond rating......
Ladies and gentlemen, and children of all ages, the majority in power for the last ten plus years has been a royal self-serving screw-up. No accountability. No transparency (try to get a FOIL out of Liccardi).
It's time to have some accountability. Don't WE pay the bills?
The town was under sewer consent long before 2000.This is old news in the town.The town was charging 5500.00 to hook up to the sanitary sewer back in the 80s and 90s.It the town was under sewer consent back in that era too.So no one here discovered anything,it was always there looking at ya.The money collected for sewer hook ups was suppose to help pay for sewer upgrades.
ReplyDeleteWell, it wasn't "always there looking at ya" if only the Town's "insiders" - and may I say perpetrators - were the only ones who knew about it. Saying it's old news only serves to illustrate that the lid was successfully kept on. And of the Funds were being raided for other purposes, the reason is right there for keeping the taxpayer in the dark.
DeleteI just heard a radio teaser that WNYT's Bill Lambdin is doing a story about EG and the poop, Wednesday evening.
ReplyDeleteMaybe the TU will finally have to break their age-old silence on everything in this town.
Wbat they are saying.. Bill lambdin was there to cause trouble..
ReplyDeleteYeah right. YOu guys have to come up with some crock of bull.
He blew you out of the poop pool.
NOw everyone knows the truth.
Who were the board members during that time? Anyone want to say.
ReplyDeleteTo the last two "Anonymouses" - I'd say it's pretty hard to stir up trouble if there is not trouble to stir in the first place. Poor judgement, self-interest and lousy governance on the part of the Town Boards and Planning Boards during the years of the Orders on Consent did create the trouble we are ALL now facing. Not to mention the taking of the Sewer/Water fund money to pay for General Fund over-runs and secret spending which in turn led to the Moody's Junk bond rating. What do you bet that ALL taxpayers, served by Town Sewer/Water or not, are on the hook for paying for the problem created? We're already hearing calls for NO accountability - "let's just move forward," and all that. How could anyone assert that the majorities during this period acted responsibly?
ReplyDeleteThe rosters of Board members and Planning Board members are on the public record, and I believe we'll publish them soon.
As she rushed the Supe away from Lambdin's probing microphone, that female attorney was heard to say that the the Supe couldn't talk because the case was "in litigation." I checked the court system online and could find nothing. Is our poop being sued or is it suing someone else? Any ideas?
ReplyDeleteDwight
Dwight, I'm looking at the Town Board Meeting Agenda Draft right now, that was handed out at the pre-board meeting. It says in resolution 69-2012, Now therefore, be it resolved that the Town Board determines that entering into the 6th Modification to the Order on Consent of 2000 is in the best interests of the town and hereby authorizes the Supervisor of the town to execute the same and make payment to NYSDEC of the sum of $20,000.00 as and for the penalty initially payable as set forth in said document.
ReplyDeleteAfter the lawyer Margot Thomas rushed in and started all the drama and took Langley, Lambdin and our town attorney into the hallway, the meeting finally started. A couple of comments were made by O'Brien and Mangold not related to the poop issue, (Malone not in attendance) Supervisor Langley ended the meeting. All of perhaps 5 minutes. From my perspective, the arrival of Ms. Thomas was not expected by Langley. The drama could have been avoided if the lawyer arrived EARLY and talked to Supervisor Langley before the meeting.
A letter from NYSDEC to Margot Thomas , Esq dated May 1,2012 was handed out at the pre-board meeting. Dwight I hope Mr. Gadfly gave you a copy. A civil penalty in the amount of $90,000.00 is here by assessed against the Respondent and $20,000.00 is due upon the return of a signed and notarized (not by Phil Malone) copy of this Order to the DEC. The balance of the penalty, $70,000.00 is suspended and shall not be payable, provided that the Respondent fully complies with the requirements of this Order in a timely fashion. I took this from 14.1 section of the letter. Now you get a bigger picture of what's happening.
Now I'm looking at the Town Board Meeting Agenda dated May 16, 2012. Resolution 69-2012 states $15,000.000 revised downward from $20,000.0.. is to be payed to DEC for the penalty of dumping poop into the Hudson. A lot of action took place in one weeks time and I am thankful for the said reduction of the penalty. My point is a lot of things can be done quickly and right with citizen oversight and when officials are motivated to take quick action. Dwight, I don't know any information about "in litigation", but i'm sure everyone will know soon enough.
Thanks Bonnie. I don't believe we were in litigation, but it sounded cool, and made for great tv. Dwight
ReplyDeleteWow!
ReplyDeleteI am so glad this is out in the open, (Thank you all who pursued this matter and other important matters).
I can remember A certain Town worker, going out when it rained hard or for an excessive length of time, to control the water and Poop flow, (LETTING IT FLOW DOWN TO THE RIVER!) He even was paid overtime for it.
Have you ever wondered why every single thing in this town seems so darn complicated?
ReplyDeleteHave you ever wondered why every issue seems managed not in the best interests of the town or the general population?
Have you ever wondered about why Sue Mangold has to abstain so often? Can you say with confidence that she has not compromised her vote for her family's many businesses?
Have you ever wondered if there are qualified applicants for town hall jobs who are not already related to someone?
Have you ever wondered why the Republican Committee ran that stupid Martha ad?
Have you ever wondered what mechanism allows supposedly responsible people to blow off 5 previous Consent Decrees?
Have you ever wondered if liaison to the police department Sue Mangold will ever do anything about Deputy Chief Condo's destruction of evidence issue?
Have you ever wondered why the Town Attorney fights every Freedom of Information Law like it was life or death? Why do things we end up paying for have to be hidden from the very people who end up paying for them?
Have you ever wondered why the administrators of the EG Talks blog have to stay anonymous?
Have you ever wondered about why Town Board members are rude to tax payers?
Have you ever wondered why Phil Malone threatened a state employee?
Have you ever wondered why Ginny O'Brien led the move to cut newly elected Supervisor Langley's salary?
Have you ever wondered why O'Brien, Mangold and Malone don't fire their Ethics Board appointments?
Have you ever wondered and wondered and wondered?
Friends and neighbors: What do you wonder about?
Have you ever wondered why the average tax paying citizens are no longer permitted to ask questions of their elected representatives at Town Board meetings?
ReplyDeleteBelieve it or not, I think the Handbook For Towns recommends that the Board members merely thank residents for their comments and move on. No discussion required. Some of them don't think too well on their feet so it's a nice "out" when you're walking in gray areas. Dwight
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