Wednesday, August 15, 2012

Diary of a Stillborn Grant Baby - By Dwight Jenkins

Following is simply a cut and paste from various sources available on the Internet regarding the origins of our sewer fiasco, from inception at a Town Board meeting in 2008 to the latest official announcement from the Water and Sewer Authority. The plan all along? Build a SEWER BYPASS to have the County handle some/all of our sewage so that we could expand business while operating more efficiently, saving the taxpayers money. The next report will show, from FOIL requests, where some of that money has gone. I think you will be as saddened and surprised as I was. If it's too much to read, go back to your coloring books...

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From the 12/10/08 Town Board Meeting:
104-2008 Authorization to Negotiate a Joint Municipal Agreement to Share Sewer Services and to Apply for State Financial Assistance
 
WHEREAS, The Rensselaer County Water and Sewer Authority has entered into a service agreement, an operating agreement and certain lease agreements with the Town of East Greenbush to finance and provide water and sewer infrastructure improvements  benefiting both the Town of East Greenbush and the City of Rensselaer; and
 
WHEREAS,  on or about June 26, 2008, $8,005,000 in Water Service bonds and $6,555,000 in Sewer Service bonds were issued by the Rensselaer County Water and Sewer Authority to provide capital construction funds for such improvements;  and
 
WHEREAS, a major component of the sewerage facilities is the construction of a by-pass line which will take up to a maximum of one million gallons per day and a minimum of 500,000 gallons per day of untreated sewerage overflow from the Town wastewater treatment plant which is operating at near full capacity and potentially re-direct it to the sewer treatment plant owned and operated by the Rensselaer County Sewer District; and
 
WHEREAS, the Town of East Greenbush and Rensselaer County Sewer District (RCSD)  are intending to enter into an agreement where a portion of wastewater now collected by the Town will be discharged to County treatment facilities as aforementioned to lessen the burden of wastewater loadings at the existing Town wastewater treatment plant, and
 
​WHEREAS, the New York Department of State is seeking applications for funding for the Shared Municipal Services Incentive grant program that seeks to have communities share services in order to improve government efficiency and provide cost savings, and
 
WHEREAS,  New York State funding is available (up to approximately $400,000) to encourage and assist consolidations and municipal sharing initiatives such as this through the Local Government Efficiency Grant Program and the application for such funding requires a statement by the Town of East Greenbush and by Rensselaer County of its support for the sharing initiative; now therefore
 
BE IT RESOLVED, that the Town Board recognizes the steps already taken by the Rensselaer County Water and Sewer Authority and the Town of East Greenbush to provide capital funding needed to construct a by-pass line and associated monitoring equipment and the ongoing discussions between the County Sewer District #1 and the Town of East Greenbush to create the framework for a workable joint municipal agreement to implement a sharing of sewer services; and be it
 
FURTHER RESOLVED, that the Town of East Greenbush is authorized to pursue a joint municipal agreement with the Rensselaer County Water and Sewer Authority and the Rensselaer County Sewer District #1 with the objectives of achieving cost effective improvements to the delivery of service, benefits to the ratepayers of the Town of East Greenbush and the residents of Rensselaer County, and reduced combined sewer overflow to the Hudson River; and that the Town of East Greenbush is authorized to apply for State funding to support this initiative with the aforementioned entities; and
 
FURTHER RESOLVED, that the Town of East Greenbush, subject to the cooperation of the Rensselaer County Sewer District, hereby authorizes the Supervisor to apply to the Shared Municipal Services Incentive Grant and for the Supervisor to sign all necessary documents to effect this grant application on behalf of the Town of East Greenbush. There is a ten percent local match and of this the Town of East Greenbush will provide this amount from its service funds so as to pay its percentage to meet the local match requirement.
 
The foregoing Resolution was duly moved by Supervisor McCabe and
seconded by Councilperson Danaher and brought to a vote resulting as follows:
 
SUPERVISOR McCABE​ VOTED​ YES
COUNCILPERSON DANAHER ​VOTED​ YES
COUNCILPERSON KENNEDY​ VOTED​ YES
​COUNCILPERSON CRISTO ​VOTED​ YES
​COUNCILPERSON MATTERS​ VOTED​ YES

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From the 1/14/09 Town Board Meeting:
Resolution to apply for local government efficiency grant funding
 
WHEREAS, the Town of East Greenbush, as Lead Applicant, and the City of Troy, the City of Rensselaer, the Town of North Greenbush, the Town of Schodack and the Town of Sand Lake, as Co-Applicants, are in mutual support of submitting a Local Government Efficiency Grant Program application to the New York State Department of State, Division of Local Government Services for the 2008 - 2009 program year; and
 
WHEREAS, the respective responsibilities of the lead applicant and the co-applicants are enumerated in the grant application; and
 
WHEREAS, the aforementioned municipalities have previously formed a consortium and successfully developed a shared Assessment Information System (AIS) to provide assessment and parcel level data to the six participating municipal departments and to the public via the Web; and
 
WHEREAS, the purpose of the grant application is to create additional operational efficiencies and further reduce municipal costs through the funding of carefully considered enhancements to the AIS; and
 
WHEREAS, the project title shall be the “Assessment Information System Enhancement Project”; and
 
WHEREAS, the Town designates Susan F. McCarthy, Assessor for the Town of East Greenbush as contact person for the Town, with responsibility for attending project meetings, furnishing all necessary information to the Town of East Greenbush and informing the Town (City) Council regarding the project’s schedule and progress; and
 
WHEREAS, the “amount of grant requested” will not exceed two hundred thousand dollars ($200,000.00); and (* It's actually $400,000)
 
WHEREAS, the “local share,” in dollars, of a successfully funded Local Government Efficiency Grant Program application shall be a ten percent (10%) cash match of the grant award; and
 
WHEREAS, the Town of East Greenbush, the City of Troy, the City of Rensselaer, the Town of North Greenbush, the Town of Schodack and the Town of Sand Lake, will each contribute one-sixth of the 10% match (1.667% ); now therefore
 
BE IT RESOLVED, that the Town  of East Greenbush authorizes the Supervisor  to submit an application, as a co-applicant, for funding not to exceed $200,000 to the Local Government Efficiency Grant Program and to execute all financial and administrative processes relating to the grant; and be it
 
FURTHER RESOLVED that the Town  of East Greenbush will commit one-sixth of the required 10% local share, an amount not to exceed $3,333.33, from its general revenues, towards the local project share.
 
The foregoing Resolution was duly moved by Councilperson Cristo and
seconded by Councilperson Kennedy and brought to a vote resulting as follows:
 
COUNCILPERSON CRISTO​ VOTED​ YES
COUNCILPERSON KENNEDY​ VOTED​ YES
SUPERVISOR McCABE​ VOTED​ YES
COUNCILPERSON DANAHER ​VOTED​ YES
​COUNCILPERSON MATTERS​ VOTED​ YES

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FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE:
July 8, 2009

GOVERNOR PATERSON ANNOUNCES MORE THAN $1 MILLION IN LOCAL GOVERNMENT EFFICIENCY GRANTS FOR THE CAPITAL REGION

Projects to Consolidate and Share Services to Save $105 Million Across the State

Governor David A. Paterson today announced the award of more than $1.4 million in Local Government Efficiency (LGE) program grants for the Capital Region. The LGE awards support projects that consolidate local government services to eliminate waste, make operations more effective and reduce costs. The Capital Region was awarded four grants that total $1.48 million and are expected to save area taxpayers more than $7 million over ten years.

“At a time of fiscal crisis, it is essential that we continue working to make New York more affordable for businesses and families. We need to reduce the property tax burden, and one way to do that is to modernize the delivery of local government services,” Governor Paterson said. “The Local Government Efficiency Grant Program helps municipalities to invest in their future savings, consolidating services to reduce waste and improve operations. These shared-service programs are an effective cost-saving measure that helps us build sustainable, high-quality services that will benefit communities across the State.”

Secretary of State Cortés-Vázquez said: “In this difficult time for all Americans, reducing expenses is as important on the State and local municipal level as it is for every household. Now, more than ever, New Yorkers must work together and support one another as we build a better, stronger future. Whether through the sharing of services or through consolidation, local municipalities continue to spend effectively to help control the rising cost of property taxes. These Local Government Efficiency grants will help New York’s local governments continue to find ways to become even more efficient and to effect the changes to help lower costs and lessen rising property taxes.”

More than $10 million will be distributed to 63 grant recipients across the State. New York’s taxpayers are projected to save $105 million. The LGE Program, which began in 2005, has already awarded $29 million in grants and is expected to produce an estimated savings of more than $250 million.

The announcement of the LGE grants is latest in a series of measures the Governor has taken to lower the cost of government, a priority of his Administration. Last month, he announced the creation of the Office of Taxpayer Accountability to manage efforts that reduce waste and find efficiencies in State and local government. The Governor also signed the New York Government Reorganization and Citizen Empowerment Act to establish procedures for the consolidation and dissolution of local governments. Through these commitments, the Governor has applied administrative and legislative tools that will help to decrease spending, achieve reform and reduce property taxes.

“Our property taxes have skyrocketed to levels that discourage residents and businesses. True economic recovery will address the fiscal challenges we now face, but must also establish new standards that ensure we manage our spending at all levels of government, so as not to burden the people who work to make New York the Empire State,” Governor Paterson added.

Capital Region Local Government Efficiency Grant Recipients:

$400,000 for the Town of East Greenbush, in cooperation with Rensselaer County, to create a joint municipal agreement to authorize the sharing of sewer services and develop the engineering and design specifications for the development of appropriate inter-municipal connections. (* For a connection, not an expansion.)

For more information and a complete list of the grant awards, please visit Department of State website at http://www.dos.state.ny.us.

The following quotes were provided in support of the Local Government Efficiency grants:

Senator Neil Breslin said: “During these difficult economic times it is important that we find ways to reduce government costs. This government efficiency grant will help reduce our local tax burden while making government services more efficient."

Assembly Majority Leader Ron Canestrari said: “Property taxpayers and businesses in the Town of East Greenbush will benefit in the years to come from the sharing of waste water services with Rensselaer County. This will hopefully avoid tax increases for people who are already stretched thin by the economic recession. I am thankful for this efficiency grant and hopeful that it will encourage greater consolidation of services where possible throughout New York.”

Chairman of the Rensselaer Water and Sewer Authority (RCWSA) and Executive Director of the Rensselaer County Office of Economic Development and Planning Robert Pasinella, Jr. said: "It is more important than ever that local governments join forces to wisely spend scarce tax dollars to improve public services. The award of the Department of State Grant of $400,000 to supplement nearly $1 million in bond revenues issued by the RCWSA to build a Wastewater Bypass Line will save East Greenbush Taxpayers nearly $2.3 million, generate additional operating revenues for the County Sewer District and enable continued economic growth in the County. Governor Paterson, Secretary of State Cortés-Vázquez, Supervisor McCabe, the Rensselaer County Legislature and County Executive Jimino deserve our thanks and praise for moving this initiative forward."

Town of East Greenbush Supervisor Rick McCabe said: "We are excited to receive this grant that will enable Rensselaer County and the Town of East Greenbush to establish an intermunicipal agreement, where the County will share available waste water treatment capacity with the Town. Both the County and Town will benefit from this shared approach of municipal services. The County will benefit from additional revenues due to future anticipated residential, commercial, and industrial growth that would otherwise not occur due to the limited municipal service capacity presently available in the Town."

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Ruth Noemí Colón
MESSAGE FROM THE ACTING SECRETARY OF STATE

Dear Colleague,
It is with great pleasure that I present to you the 2009-2010 Annual Report for the Local Government Efficiency (LGE) program. In the report you will read how our local government partners are proving that the cost of pro- viding public services can be lowered through more efficient government, easing the impact of property taxes on community residents. This document is a tribute to their hard work and commitment.

The goal of the LGE program is to help local government leaders lower local government costs and increase efficiency of service delivery. This past year has been especially active as we are seeing a greater willingness to consider new models of governance and service delivery. New York State residents continue to make it clear that they are no longer willing to bear the cost of inefficient or duplicative services at any level of government. The “New N.Y. Government Reorganization and Citizen Empowerment Act” that became effective in March is a manifestation of this opposition. In response, the pressure on local leaders to meet these demands for action is high and the Department of State remains committed to help.

This report documents the positive effect that LGE projects are having in our communities. In fact, average household savings equals 4.6% of local government taxes and the annual rate of return on grant dollars is 89% -- a prudent investment of public funds. The Department of State looks forward to the continued success of the LGE program and to implementing new partnerships with local government and other community lead- ers. By working together we will meet the economic challenges of our time and emerge a stronger and more vital New York. (* We were blessed to make an appearance in this report! See the below quote:)

"Challenges imposed by changing demographics and aging infrastructure make intermunicipal and regional collaboration an attractive option. The Department of State is helping the Town of East Greenbush connect its sewage treatment plant, which is operating at full capacity and under a consent order, to the Rensselaer County plant, which is operating at only 60% of capacity. The grant will help to develop a joint municipal agreement needed to authorize the sharing of sewer services and offset some of the engineering and design costs of the connecting line. "

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http://www.dos.ny.gov/lg/lge/projects.html (revised 11/29/11)

Town of East Greenbush - $400,000.00   Status: 50% Complete
The Town of East Greenbush is building a sewer line connecting the East Greenbush plant to the County Sewer District at a capital cost nearly $3 million less than an expansion of their existing plant. 

(* Notice the above cost analysis from the Dept. of State web site. "$3 million less than an expansion..." And yet the Town Engineer was quoted as telling Times Union reporter Brian Nearing that it would actually cost MORE to do the sewer line connection:  "Another potential option, to hook up the town system to the larger Rensselaer County sewer system, has been deemed too expensive at this time,"  Benko said. "It is more beneficial to do our improvements from within," he said.  (More beneficial for who????)

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 Rensselaer County Water and Sewer Authority 2011 Annual Report

John J. Bonesteel, Chief Executive Officer Robert Hotz, Chief Financial Officer
John Fetscher, Secretary
Philip H. Dixon, Authority Counsel
Henry V. LaBarba, P.E., Authority Consulting Engineer
February 2012
Robert Pasinella, Jr., Chairman G. Jeffrey Haber. Vice Chairman Kenneth M. Harting, Treasurer John Mooney Edward J. Patanian

Overview
On June 26, 2008, the Rensselaer County Water and Sewer Authority (RCWSA) closed on an $8,005,000 Water Service Bond Issue and a $6,555,000 Sewer Service Bond Issue to fund sewer projects in the Town of East Greenbush and water projects in the Joint Water District, consisting of East Greenbush and the City of Rensselaer. By the end of 2010 a total of $6,077,592 was disbursed on water projects and $2,682,963 on sewer projects. During 2011, an additional $1,384,577 was spent on water facilities and $344,451 on sewer projects. Debt service reserves of $497,705 and $408,458 are maintained for water and sewer bonds, respectively. Of the amounts available for construction costs, nearly all of water service bond funds have been spent or committed, while nearly half of the sewer service bond funds have been spent or committed. Major sewer project initiatives to be commenced in 2012 include construction of the sewer interceptor line with the cooperation of the Rensselaer County Sewer District No. 1 and the City of Rensselaer; pump station improvement projects in the Town of East Greenbush; and additional infiltration and inflow reduction initiatives in the Town.

Summary
In 2011 the Rensselaer County Water and Sewer Authority (RCWSA) continued its work on the water and sewer facilities serving the Town of East Greenbush and the City of Rensselaer. The second of two five million gallon water tanks serving the Joint Water District was completed, along with upgrades to the Cross Street Pump Station. The upgrades included replacement of the pump drives at Cross Street with highly efficient variable speed drives, utilizing savings realized from other water projects, which will reduce future operating costs at the pump station. The RCWSA also assisted the Town of East Greenbush by redirecting the Town’s water line along Route 4 to allow for the construction of a NYS Department of Transportation supported roundabout at the Couse Corners intersection.

On the sewer facility side, the focus shifted to increasing capacity of the Town’s waste water treatment system. In 2009, the RCWSA, in conjunction with the Town of East Greenbush and Rensselaer County Sewer District No. 1, applied for and received a $400,000 Local Government Efficiency Grant from the Department of State to implement a joint municipal wastewater diversion project to be constructed using the RCWSA’s Sewer Service bonds. Planning and design moved forward in the 2011 with the contingent transfer of a section of sewer line by the City of Rensselaer to the Authority. In 2010 the Authority acquired necessary easements and a parcel of New York State Department of Transportation property for the sewer interceptor line in the City of Rensselaer. Current plans call for the proposed line to carry up to five million gallons a day to the Rensselaer County Sewer District No. 1. This will provide excess capacity for future growth in the Town and its neighbors and take full advantage of current construction cost savings and efficiencies. The County Sewer District will also benefit by having a new dependable revenue source to replace the amounts previously paid by BASF. Draft inter-municipal agreements and necessary changes to the Town’s waste treatment code have been completed. In the area of infiltration and inflow mitigation, the RCWSA and Town completed manhole rehabilitation and sanitary sewer replacement where severe pipe deterioration was found and have instituted other inflow and infiltration initiatives, such as the residential sump pump program to reduce discharges of ground water into the waste stream.

Sewer line rehabilitation projects will continue to be undertaken to address the compliance schedule in the Town’s NYSDEC consent order. The replacement of aged and worn sewage pumping station will continue with one planned for 2012.

The Authority also owns the Pheasant Run sewer system, a fifteen unit system in the Town of Schodack. The Authority collects $600.00 per year per unit for its maintenance expenses. In 2011, The Authority and the Bond Trustee, Wells Fargo, continued to invest idle bond proceeds in government-backed money market funds due to the volatility in the financial markets. Bond principal payments totaling of $145,000 ($80,000 for water bonds and $65,000 for sewer bonds) were made on September 1, 2011. Interest earned on Water and Sewer Service Bonds totaled $172.74 and $434.32, respectively, for the year, reflecting the spend-down on project costs and low prevailing interest rates.

Accomplishments/Operations

The following is a chronological account of the RCWSA’s accomplishments and operations during calendar 2011.

January, February - Water System Projects - Tank No. 2 work is complete. The only remaining tasks will be to release the retainage and issue a change order for credit from the leftover allowance amount. Concerning the other two remaining contracts, (Lashway and J&J Sass), the contract with J&J Sass Electric is now complete. Delaware Engineering has provided a final payment application and related paper work. The RCWSA has been asked by the Town of East Greenbush to assist in the Couse Corners Roundabout transportation project by financing the replacement of the existing water main at that intersection. The NYSDOT grant for the roundabout did not include adequate funds for about 600 feet of water main that will be situated under the roundabout. The Town and its water department are concerned that during and after new road construction the main will be vulnerable to breaks due to age and condition. The road design consultant CME has prepared a base plan showing the needed water main, valves and appurtenances. CME has prepared a cost estimate range of around $ $450,000.

Wastewater Projects - CDM has commenced design of the sewer interceptor line. The Town will be meeting to decide what additional construction is needed at the plant to accommodate the preliminary treatment of wastewater before it is bypassed to the County Sewer District No 1. A budget is being prepared to enable the Town to make a decision on what facilities are needed and if they can be financed through the remaining bond funds. We have met with the Town and officials to determine to what extend we need to replace influent grit removal systems and screens. It was determined that CDM can install the bypass structure and flow measurement facilities adjacent to the existing influent structure at the Town’s treatment plant. The Town is requesting that the Authority authorize payment for a fence to encompass a new storm water retention area constructed to relieve Infiltration and Inflow issues in Clinton Park.

March, April – Water system Projects – Cost estimates for the Couse Corners water main project appear to be closer to $400,000 which will fit within the remaining uncommitted water bond funds.

Wastewater Projects - Planning and preliminary design of the sump pump project is underway. It is not expected that any construction will commence until the summer. Public input and meetings are required initially.

May, June – Water System Projects - The Contract with Prelode for the new water tanks is closed. Construction of the Couse Corners water main project started on Monday June 6. A preconstruction meeting was held on May 29th with the Town, contractor, engineers, and DOT present. The Town will utilize its own inspection services, with oversight from HV LaBarba and CME to reduce bonded project costs.

Wastewater Projects - In early May, the Authority dealt with a sewer blockage and discharge issue discovered in a remote section of North Greenbush along the Valley View Blvd. line that was caused by construction debris clogging the line. The RCWSA remediated the area surrounding the discharge and instituted an inspection plan. Meetings are scheduled to be held with representatives of the County Legislature regarding the Sewer Interceptor Project. Attorneys from all parties, including the RCWSA, Town of East Greenbush and the County Sewer District will also be meeting soon to discuss the Joint Municipal Agreement associated with the project. As part of the sump pump elimination project, the Town constructed a large storm water detention area to handle peak flows from Sherwood Avenue and Massachusetts Avenue, where the sump project will discharge. The Town solicited three quotes to install a fence surrounding the detention area, which is about 1⁄2 acre and about 12 feet deep, for safety concerns. The low bidder was AFSCO Fence Supply Co.

July, August - Water System Projects – Drives have arrived at the Cross St station and are being installed by O’Connell Electric. The new VFD units are in place. This system will generate a significant energy cost savings through its efficiency. The pumps can now also run at higher than previous pumping rates. Couse Corners Roundabout construction is in its final stages. The new 30 inch main is in place and only minor site work remains.

Wastewater Projects – The City of Rensselaer passed a resolution relinquishing sewer ownership along a section of sewer line to the RCWSA, which was needed to complete the sewer interceptor line through the City of Rensselaer to connect to the County Sewer District main. The Town and the RCWSA made a presentation to the County Legislature on the status of the project. It was determined that the parties will need EPA approval of the Joint Municipal Agreement. The Hampton Manor sewer project is complete. Manhole rehabilitation work is also complete. We have received a request for release of retainage from Talham, Inc., which will close out this project. As a results of the planning and design efforts, a good percentage of the homeowners in the study have disconnected sump pumps from entering the sewer lines and those remaining can be serviced by storm sewers already in place. The Massachusetts Avenue sump pump elimination project will be the first of its kind in the Town and will provide direction to other areas of similar need. As part of the sump pump elimination project, the Town constructed a large storm water detention area to handle peak flows from Sherwood Avenue, including Massachusetts Avenue, where the sump project will discharge. The fence surrounding the detention area is complete.

September, October - Water System Projects – It was necessary to update and rewire the new pump drive controls to allow the City of Troy to remotely operate the pumps as needed.

Wastewater Projects – The Town is preparing an Inflow and Infiltration Reduction Plan for its presentation to NYSDEC regarding its consent order.
November, December - Water System Projects – There are two small on-going projects at the Cross Street Station, one involves ECI, the Contractor used by the Authority for the Joint Water System for tank monitoring and pump station control, to upgrade the control system. The estimated cost is around $25,275. The second contract is with JP Industrial to deactivate the old control valves ($480).

Wastewater Projects – CDM has nearly completed the final plans for the sewer interceptor. The Town met with NYSDEC to discuss its Consent Order, which terminates in March 2012. The following items were discussed: 1) the need for the Town and County to come to an accord for the Town to complete the sewer interconnection to the Rensselaer County Sewer District and the necessary intermunicipal agreement, 2) other options the Town has to satisfy DEC and the terms of the Consent Order concerning the treatment plants SPDES violations, and 3) ongoing Inflow and Infiltration issues. As a result of this meeting the Town has to submit to DEC a request to modify the Consent Order.The request included the following;

1) A revised time schedule for possible agreement with the County for an intermunicipal connection.
2) An alternate plan on how the Town will prevent future SPDES treatment violations by modifying or rehabilitating the existing waste water treatment plant.
3) A revised schedule to complete sump pump work and sewer rehabilitation on various projects in the Town ( Mass Ave & Sherwood) during 2012,
4) A plan to further monitor and control peak flows at the Corlis pump station and
5) A plan to replace and modify the Hideaway pump station to prevent flooding and
stream contamination.

These projects will become the RCWSA’s focal points for design and construction to be completed in 2012.

Board Members
Robert Pasinella, Jr., Chairman - Mr. Pasinella is the Director of the Rensselaer County Office of Economic Development and Planning, as well as the Executive Director of the Rensselaer County Industrial Development Agency.

G. Jeffrey Haber. Vice Chairman - Mr. Haber is the Executive Director of the New York State Association of Towns and is the former Supervisor of the Town of the Town of Schodack.

Kenneth M. Harting, Treasurer – Mr. Harting is the former supervisor of the Town of East Greenbush’s water system for the Department of Public Works and is the operator of a number of small private water systems in Rensselaer County.

John Mooney – Mr. Mooney is a licensed real estate broker with Realty USA and the President of the Rensselaer City School District Board of Education.

Edward J. Patanian – Mr. Patanian is a builder/developer in Sand Lake, the owner/broker of Patanian Realty and EJP, Inc., a former CDRPC Commissioner and SLBA President, and is active on many other government committees.

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POST-MORTEM: the grant baby was stillborn after so many good wishes and so many gifts. Then again, maybe there never really WAS a plan to deliver this baby? The latest update from the Water and Sewer is below is below:

Town of East Greenbush
Capital Improvement Projects
2012

Project Status Report and Meeting Agenda Items
From: H. V. LaBarba, PE
Consultant to the Authority
August 7, 2012
 Meeting
 
I.    WASTEWATER IMPROVEMENTS
 
1.    Intermunicipal Sewer – Status
 
  In summary of some of the important actions to date:
 
• The Town has a final plan approved by DEC concerning improvements to its wastewater system, including pump station upgrades, continued Inflow and Infiltration reduction and plant upgrading.  The sewer connection with the County is not a dead issue and it could (sic) available if the Town finds its (sic) needs additional capacity for future growth. The County has sent the Town a letter to this affect. For now there will be a hold on any further work with finalizing the bypass sewer design.  By late fall the Town will know if it should continue with this option of a connection to the County.
 
Actions to be taken:

 None at this time
 

117 comments:

  1. Isn't the "$3 million less than an expansion..." based on construction costs and is mute on the fees the sewer districts would have to pay the Rensselaer County Water and Sewer Authority?

    RCWSA reports to its Board and no one else, thus it could negotiate, i.e. demand, whatever fees it wanted without impunity.

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    Replies
    1. Any you think the Town Board is any more trustworthy? It's basically the same crowd that took the interfund transfers and spent them on themselves and gave us some debt and junk bonds.

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    2. Anon 4:25, did you read the whole freaking thing? Every entity involved, from beginning to end, is talking BYPASS! We took $400K in grant money to develop a BYPASS because everyone involved indicated it would be cheaper for everyone involved! You're talking about fees five years after the fact but isn't it reasonable to assume that fees were discussed somewhere, by someone? You read the Town Board resolutions I put up there. Any worries about fees in the language? So what changed? The Town already admitted to overcharging sewer district residents. Remember that? That was earlier this year and it came from the Town comptroller, if I'm not mistaken. And the fees are linked to the Troy Sewer District anyway, are they not, just like the water fees are tied to the Troy Water District? Both water and sewer were bonded by the Authority, and yet we negotiated fees for water, didn't we? So why wouldn't we be able to negotiate fees with sewer? I'm sitting on a whole stack of FOILed documents from Margot Thomas, attorney, in which she negotiated water fees with the other municipalities. Have you had much luck negotiating your sewer rates with the Town of EG? I think not. Dwight

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    3. Dwight, I believe that sewer fees are a dedicated revenue stream whatever entity they are paid to. I do not believe that they can be used for other purposes and are therefore to be reasonably related to the costs of the system which generates them. I think EG got used to using these revenues for other purposes, and the control agencies (OSC) really didn't make it clear. The finding in the OSC 2008 review discussing the inter-fund borrowing didn't have much of a stick in it. Hence the notion that "wink and nod" might prevail.

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  2. Good question ANONY.....The trouble is that this is about the ONLY place questions can be asked. The Board won't allow them. The public has absolutely NO idea of what the business issues are on these proposals. The proposal to DEC was embargoed by Liccardi's language that it was "non final."

    Seems to me that the Board has an obligation to be absolutely transparent as to costs, time-frames, negotiating issues (like you cite), all the pluses and minuses on the various approaches.

    The fact is, as Dwight has outlined, three and a half years of spending and planning was abruptly abandoned on August 7th - about a week ago.

    Without a transparent explanation of the issues, this whole business stinks.

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  3. Well done Dwight! If Mr. Langley lived up to just a fraction of what people expected of him, he would stand by this plan that has been in the works and speak out for residents in favor of a plan that has been embraced by both sides in the past. This just demonstrates that the current majority has tunnel vision and only in it for themselves and Langley is no better. If Langley needs McCabe to help improve his job performance, we are in greater trouble than even Don thought.

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  4. Tom Grant (the elder)August 16, 2012 at 10:07 AM

    I'm hopeful the Town and County can work together to come up with a solution that provides the best cost-effective benefits to all of the Town and County residents. Constructive open discussion and fair compromise is what good government is all about.

    ReplyDelete
  5. Last night's town board meeting was insightful.

    Resolution 125-2012 states: "the Town at this time is proceeding with the alternative of exanding and upgrading the existing WWTP..." That's waste water treatment plant, by the way.

    In response to a question Supervisor Langley broke from his own public comments suppression of engagement with citizens rules to tell the audience that this rather clear language does not exclude consideration by the town board of the county by-pass option.

    Sure reads that way to me.

    Moving on...

    Sue Mangold told the audience that: "Every little thing cannot be shared with residents". Now hold on there Ms. Mangold. You and the other board members find the time to tell us about fishing touranments and other nice things going on around town. Do you really want to say that sharing decisionmaking that will cost taxpayers MILLIONS of dollars is too time consuming? Oh, really?

    Ms. Mangold had to abstain 3 times last time. Hey, Ginny, remember when you made a huge issue out of Cristo's having to abstain? I know that was long time ago but our friends on Talks have long memories so I thought I would bring it up.

    It remains to be seen if there will be any accounting and any accountability for the $6.5 MILLION bond AND the $400,000 grant taxpayers are already stuck with paying.

    ReplyDelete
  6. Can the TB put the Town into more debt by bonding without bringing a bond issue to the voters? Dosn't seem right.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Good question. Are bonds offered by the County Authority subject to vote? Standard and Poors have downgraded these bonds too, so that's another issue.

      Delete
  7. What do you think the interest rate on the latest bond will be with our town's credit rating being what it is?

    And how did our town get to a junk bond credit rating?

    And what has the town board and the CFAC done since the junk bond rating? Trim expenses? Nah. Develop a financial recovery plan? Nah.

    There have been bi-partisan requests from the public who this town board chooses to not listen to suggesting a financial recovery plan makes good sense. But not to O'Brien, Mangold and Malone.

    What the majority has done, in an absolute fit of irresponsible behavior is add unneeded nepotism and patronage jobs. Makes perfect sense right? Nah.

    Good Lord, can O'Brien, Mangold and Malone be any less competent? Not one damn bit is the answer. Not one damn bit.

    ReplyDelete
  8. There is a fascinating comment over on Talks to the effect that Rick McCabe is still running the town.

    And you know what, given how utterly screwed up things STILL are around here, for just this once I believe that Talks blogger.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I thought Langley was running the Town.

      Delete
  9. Is the following comment from Talks the content of the "every little thing" that Ms. Mangold doesn't think necessary to convey to taxpayers? Given the content, I don't blame her. One of the Mikey's on steroids, no doubt. The majority has some very impaired spokespersons by the look of things. Unable to string two facts together. But we don't worry about every little thing, do we?


    "CedricAugust 16, 2012 1:54 PM

    Too bad plans changed and the BYPASS is no longer a viable option! DID ANY OF YOU GADFLIERS EVER TALK TO A OPERATOR FROM RENSSELAER COUNTY SEWER TREATMENT PLANT??
    I'd bet not since you would have found that Renn. Co. is in violation of every consent decree - approx. 5-7x as many as East Greenbush ! But hey - that doesn't fit your little plan huh?? Rensselaer County needs EGB $ so they can get in compliance - but hey - Don,Dwight and Ray don't care about the truth!
    Dwight likes to bitch - Don makes an a** of himself intentionally - it all means NOTHING. For all your FOILS - you apparently didn't read a damn thing - nor did you bother to do your homework ! You gadfliers havn't a clue and it shows!

    BYPASS is off the table - it isn't cost efficient and would contribute to a greater mess than exists now! MORONS!"


    Might be in the majority's interest to get a coherent press secretary. The foregoing doesn't carry the water.

    Instead of running off at the mouth, why don't you put up the numbers on your site? Let's see your homework in an organized presentation.

    The by-pass was the alternative of choice until August 7th. The result of hundreds of thousands of dollars of studies and planning. All of a sudden, somebody had an epiphany which changed the entire set of assumptions. This raises a questions as to what the content of the thinking was leading up to this.

    Why don't you put a rational argument on the table, supported by solid assumptions and good analysis? Otherwise it's just air.

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    Replies
    1. Not to argue or give creedence one way or the other but I read that as someone who actually spoke directly to an operator at the Rensselaer County Plant. Politicians rarely if ever speak directly to the people who work the plants and would be a better source of information. I don't agree with the tone used and some of the wording is crude to say the least , but I do see evidence in there that would suggest that maybe "new" information may have come to light recently that would be cost prohibitive to the bypass suggestion.

      Delete
  10. CedricAugust: Why do you assume we have a plan? When you read years worth of documents from the Town, the Authority, the Department of State, and the Comptroller's office, and not one of them mentions expansion but ALL of them point toward BYPASS, what would YOU think? Why are YOU the first one we're hearing this from? I don't like to bitch, I feel compelled to bitch because I've been nothing but lied to for the last 5 years about any number of issues. This one isn't shaping up any differently, despite your masterful use of the word "moron." If you've got something, lay it out. Put up or shut up. You sound like someone who's afraid of losing money if that BYPASS happens. Let me guess: you work for the sewer department here in Town, right? I couldn't care less where the shit goes as long as it's not going in the river and the fix isn't costing both of us additional tax money. So whatta you got? You got anything? Facts? Documents? Have you done your homework, Cedric? Let's see it. Dwight, your bitch-loving moron.

    ReplyDelete
  11. www.dec.ny.gov/regulations/45353.html lists DEC Consent Violations 2008 to present. I see the City of Troy on there once, CedricAugust, for violations in 2008. I see the Town of East Greenbush twice. That's twice as much, CedricAugust. Troy's fine was $1,000. That indicates something uncommon. Our fine was $90,000 CedricAugust, negotiated down to $75K by the sewer consultant's partner at 100 Trillium Lane, Albany, CedricAugust. That seems to mean we've been doing it longer and more often, wouldn't you say, CedricAugust? So who's doing a better job of handling shit, CedricAugust? Do us all a favor and FOIL your documents, and then post the results somewhere, with a real name, CedricAugust. Do your homework, CedricAugust. Dwight

    ReplyDelete
  12. Dwight....I see Cedric(August) is having himself "removed by a blog administrator" over on Talks. Given the barf they usually allow, he must be really loosing it. Warms my heart.

    ReplyDelete
  13. At this week's town board meeting Phil Malone spoke at length about why the county by pass option is not viable.

    Mr. Malone indicated that the county's WWTP is at or beyond capacity and therefore cannot handle any additional input from East Greenbush.

    If that's true:

    1.) Why did all the expense, planning and analysis done prior to this point to the county as the most viable option?
    2.) Why did it take until now for the taxpayers of East Greenbush to be told that?
    3.) Is Malone being more or less truthful on this issue than he was and has been on his Notary issue?
    4.) Can someone on top of this issue look into the county capacity question and let people know if Mr. Malone statements are accurate?

    ReplyDelete
  14. Mr. Malone, as always is significantly misinformed. I checked with the county and the facts are that the county not only is not at capacity, they are not within the 95% of capacity that would trigger expansion of their plant. Further, they told me that they have the capacity to accept all of the current capacity that East Greenbush generates today.

    Phil Malone does not do his homework, (big surprise there) and has no expertise in this area. Hank LaBarba himself noted that the County was prepared to accept an additional 500,000 gallons per day from EG, so Phil should check his source. But don't take my word for it, I asked the guy who runs the plant down there. The only thing about effluent that Phil Malone is familiar with, is the fact that he's full of it!

    ReplyDelete
  15. I hope those who like to ridicule open and transparent government are taking a lesson from the circumstances which are on display here - a significant disagreement as to the facts. A Board member apparently saying one thing, and the County Authority (and East Greenbush) Engineer saying another. Is there any wonder that this particular "every little thing" was kept on "double secret probation" during its gestation. I think Mr. Malone, Ms. Mangold and Mr. Langley on this issue are YouTube worthy, and I'll get them up as soon as I have the time.

    As I said at the Board meeting, the complete reversal of direction done in secret does not make for trust in government officials. As all the facts get placed on the table, I hope the public pays attention to what is going on in front of their noses.

    ReplyDelete
  16. Why not have Town Finance Director Mulvey do a preliminary budget analysis of the costs associated with both the bypass/no bypass plans and publish the results in The Advertiser?

    ReplyDelete
  17. Here's the burning question I have.

    Why can't the East Greenbush town officials, starting with supervisor Langley, provide taxpayers a simple, factual analysis of this issue?

    Why is something seemingly so simple so seemingly impossible?

    I know the people on Talks hate Don and Dwight. But Don and Dwight are both dead nuts right on in their work on this issue.

    Dwight has provided the single most in depth, well researched and full accounting of the previous bond of some $6.5 million and the $400,000 grant spent on the study in the history of East Greenbush.

    And Don is right when he refers to taxpayers' confidence in their elected representatives.

    I think here's the problem. These elected officials do not think they "represent" us; they think they "rule" us.

    But they are wrong.

    If the Town Board is making a political decision instead of a economic or finance decision in the best interest of taxpayers we need to revolt. We need to look for people in office who care not about themselves but about the town. I see no sign of that these days. None. Do you?

    ReplyDelete
  18. Anony@12:57.....I submitted the following to Talks in response to Cedric, who says that there are "new facts" which led to the reversal of direction. And I do have a couple of questions about that. Why wasn't all the trouble that Rensselaer County is supposedly in in the minutes and records of the Sewer and Water Authority, and on the mind of Mr. LaBarba during the time leading up to the shift in direction? Seems to me that this "massive fact" would be part of the public planning. Where is the forthrightness of our public officials? Here's my Talks comment:

    "Cedric....If you recall, Ray Mooney has been asking over and over again for a PUBLIC presentation of potential solutions so the stakeholders and bill payers can be aware of the business solutions available to address the problem. I asked for the same thing at the Board meeting. The people who are paying the bills should have some say in what is going to happen, and the advocates for each point of view should be required to publicly make their cases. It's the taxpayers who are the customers in this deal after all.

    What is so exasperating here is that politics gets in the way of governing. Keeping the revenue seems to be the issue in this case, along with the leverage associated with permitting what gets to be developed. Let's face it, there's money in that - lots of it under the table.

    The thing to remember about sewer revenue is that it is dedicated revenue, to be used for the purposes for which it is collected. East Greenbush got used to "borrowing" it and using it unlawfully. That's one of the reasons for the existence of the current problem. Since sewer revenue is dedicated, the question becomes whether the Town or the County can use that revenue most efficiently. Somehow I get the feeling that the "ancillary" revenue from the development decisions is driving much of the recent about-face. I think Bill Lambdin drew that same conclusion in one of his reports."

    ReplyDelete
  19. I smell some big-time conflict of interest stuff in the mix here, and it spills over into the debate on the Ethics Code. If you have significant real estate holdings/businesses in town, you don't want control over development and who gets hooked up and when to the sewer system to leave your grasp, do you? Maybe that's why "every little thing" doesn't make it to public disclosure very quickly. Whadaya say Ms. Mangold?

    ReplyDelete
  20. Sounds like CedricAugust has an anger problem if he's been removed by a blog administrator. Why can't you just be happy like me, dude? Get it? I used to have an anger problem too. Maybe still a little. Besides, Cedric, unlike Don, Ray, myself, Bonnie, Jim Cozzy and some others who use their real names, you get to hide behind a made up name! Hell, you could get away with saying anything and you still wouldn't look bad except to God and your own conscience. Tell us the plan changed because Willie Wonka just tested the waters and we're actually operating a FUDGE RIVER, not a sewer system! You've got it easy! I am disappointed in Phil Malone and Sue Mangold though for: A. Not getting it right, Phil; B. Minimizing what we have a right to know. $3,000,000 more for an upgrade is not a little detail, Sue. Lest he be overlooked, my disappointment with the Supervisor is grandest of all. True, he inherited the problem and a quick solution was forced upon him by circumstance, but hiding behind a cloak of silence isn't going to win him any friends in some quarters, and leaders get paid to lead, not follow. Dwight the Bitcher

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Tom Grant (the elder)August 17, 2012 at 10:36 PM

      Dwight:

      Thanks for the Willie Wonka reference. You might be on to something. Hope all is well with you!!

      Tom

      Delete
  21. Ray, remember how shocked we were to hear Ms. Mangold say to the Ethic's Board last Fall, that she felt she should be able to vote on Resolutions pertaining to her brother's business. She said she didn't want her brother's business to suffer or be harmed if she couldn't vote. Sounded like she was concerned that McCabe or Malone would lose their bid for election.

    Steve is a good contractor and should stand on his good reputation just like other contractors. He should never get an unfair advantage over others just because his sister is a Council Person. Sue was elected to work for the taxpayers, not to make sure a family business would not be harmed. Again, we are talking about ethics. Her statement was in a direct conflict of interest to her duties as a Council Person. Scratching my head here.

    Remember, I'm more of a purist when it comes to politics. Yeah, people think I live in fantasy land, go ahead and make fun of my values if your like, but it's my standards. I don't see through filtered glasses like some who choose to see only what is beneficial to them or their friends or their party affiliation.

    My glasses are unfiltered and I see things that I hate, sometimes I wish I had no knowledge of what I see. Dwight, Don, Ray, I so appreciate you guys bringing some sense of transparency in our local government. I would love to read the Talks Blog if the Blog Hosts would share their names and those who comment would speak out publicly concerning the pros and cons happening in our local government. I would love to read their foils and how they would address the problems that plague our town. Really I would.

    If Officer Condo is one of the blog hosts, I would like to thank him and the other officers who keep us safe. Sergeant Tubbs and all of the EG Police Force, be SAFE.

    ReplyDelete
  22. Bonnie, you and I will respectfully disagree on this: anyone who hosts that other anonymous blog is to be despised for their commitment to character assassination over factual analyses. It is beyond cowardice. Nothing but scorn from me, thanks, whoever they are. Thank God I don't know who they are, nor do I care to. Dwight

    ReplyDelete
  23. Dwight, I know you have strong feelings about their blog hosts as I and others do. I chose to separate myself from the political/verbal aspect of the rhetoric today and tack on a note of thanks to the EG Police Dept., of which Officer Condo is a member. It is that and that alone I express my appreciation.

    On the other hand, I agree with you that anyone who is committed to character assassination over anyone who shares factual analyses with the public is a terrible thing to do. You have every right to feel the way you do. This town is in a lot of need of prayer Dwight.

    ReplyDelete
  24. On that we can agree,Bonnie. Shall we pray Old Testament style vengeance or New Testament style mercy? Either way's fine with me, just let me know. Dwight

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I think God did hear the people's prayer when he had McCabe do the Irish walk of life. In his reference to lots of life. LOL...
      Made a joke and didn't plan it that way.. now we just need the great God to hear our other prayers of please Dear father, they know what they do .. and please banish them from our board.. and give us new life for our town.

      Delete
  25. Bonnie, I doubt we will ever know the true depths of Sue Mangold's multiple and overlapping conficts of interest.

    If you recall Sue said she was "going to check with her friend Jack Conway" for an opinion on her many conflicts of interest.

    Sue, of course, never sought an opinion from the Ethics Board.

    The Hart family businesses are many. Their success is admirable but not when Sue's family interests conflicts with her responsibilities to the taxpayers of our town.

    But Sue is not at all alone on conflicts of interest. Phil Malone's mother and brother work for the town as does Ginny O'Brien's husband. They vote on raises for their family members and the town attorney has built in an exception to the draft ethics code so they can continue to do so.

    I know this is not news to anyone who pays attention to what goes on around here but the town board majority exists to take care of themselves and their family. Taxpayers exist to make sure they have our money to pass along to those same family members.

    Some system...

    ReplyDelete
  26. The Pentateuch, (The first five books of the Hebrew Bible) for those who didn't know is full of cries for God's vengeance over their enemies. David makes many pleas for vengeance in the book of Psalms also. Read Psalm 55, it has a powerful ending.

    It’s a mistake to assume that praying for our enemies (love our enemies, N.T.) means we are to be passive and to let them take advantage or walk all over us. There are times to take a stand and strongly oppose our enemies like the day Jesus overturned the tables of the moneychangers and drove them out of the temple in Jerusalem (Matthew 21:12-13). And the writers of the New Testament call us to appeal to civil authorities to enforce laws that are meant to hold evildoers accountable and keep them in check (Romans 13). Holding others accountable for their actions and seeking justice, however, are not the same as praying for and pursuing revenge.

    By word and example, Jesus urged his followers to replace a heart for revenge with a heart to see our enemies reconciled to God and us. His life, death, and resurrection empowers us to envision the glory of God restored in others, to seek peace and reconciliation when possible, and to leave the matter of vengeance up to a holy and wise God who will mete out revenge in His perfect time and in His perfect way (Romans 12:17-21).

    Dwight, I choose to hate many of the words and actions of our elected officials and their supporters, but refuse to hate or despise any individual. I will pray for mercy with accountability, and leave vengeance in God's hands. You my friend must pray your conscience.

    ReplyDelete
  27. I do hope my little rabbit trail, did not take away from further comments, on the author's amazing, detailed account of the sewer bypass history. Thank you Dwight for your research, time and owning your posts and comments. Bonnie

    ReplyDelete
  28. Ms. Mangold and Mr. Malone both made statements at the TB meeting indicating that a comparison of the two options would come before the public after the engineering study was completed. They passed a resolution, however, saying that the decision to go in the direction of building and improvements had already been made. The residents of East Greenbush have been overtaxed to pay fines levied under these same engineers, the residents of the sewer district have already paid fees supporting unpaid loans made under these same engineers, and town and county taxpayers have an enormous investment of THEIR money in the bypass option supported for many years by the same engineers.

    I believe that any study that truly examines the options for the town should be done by independent parties while the three time bumbeling engineers we have now stand down.

    Because of all the secrecy surrounding this issue it is impossible to know which option is the best use of OUR money but the lack of transparency certainly makes the "build ad repair" option suspect.

    ReplyDelete
  29. I thought about trying to post this on Talks but I very rarely get the courtesy of having my submissions to them published.

    The waste treatment issue is, in my opinion, unique. By that I mean that all the arguing in the world can, and should, be put aside to basic facts and figures.

    The waste treatment issue should be, but probably won't be, an economic or business decision not a political decision.

    And the waste treatment issue is a perfect opportunity for a fact based open analysis and decision by the Town Board. The waste treatment issue can, and should be, fully explored and shared with the people who will pay for it - that's us - the taxpayers.

    So far, the only example and indication of openness and transparency has been that supplied by Dwight Jenkins and his extensively and thoroughly researched series of FOILs.

    The back and forth between politicians and blogs needs to be simply and directly addressed with facts, figures and the documentation that supports those facts and figures.

    Stay tuned. Let's see if involved citizenship can have the same positive outcome on the waste treatment issue as has been the case on so many other issues in our town.

    ReplyDelete
  30. Ray...we are right in the middle of the squabble outlined in the bold-face type in the Post I put up back in April titled "Here's the POOP in the Hudson:"

    "East Greenbush has been over capacity
    They knew it
    They didn't care
    They didn't want to give up the approval rights for development to the County
    Still don't
    The sewer fund makes money
    Cheaper to pay the fine than give up the cash flow that funded other departments
    Status quo was easier
    They didn't care
    They paid the fine
    They kept approving projects
    Everyone made money
    They are still approving projects

    An issue was made of this a few years ago and the matter was ignored.. They can not afford to update the facility to handle the capacity. They can not bifurcate the system and split treatment with the county, it's an all or nothing process. They don't want to give up the approval right for projects to the County because that is where the power is. If you can grant approvals, you can bring in donations. If the County has a say, it takes power away from the Town and donations are split between the Town and County and two different parties. It's that simple.

    The sewer fund makes money and has been where they have been taking money to fund their underfunded budget lines in the General Fund. They owe it over a million dollars. The right thing to do is to shift the control and treatment of our effluent over to the county. Sewers can more easily be expanded out to Schodack and beyond if you do. The Dems in EG haven't wanted to do that. They should put a stop to Carver Court right now because they want to go to apartments and don't have the capacity to treat the additional effluent. Development should by right come to a stop, make the switch and go from there. It isn't an over night solution thought because there is no switch to flip. They have to build the connector from our plant to the County system which will take more than a couple of months.

    They never disclosed fines or told the public about them, they just paid it because it was easier."

    This is what the fight is about - control of the GRAFT money that goes with control of the development decisions. Who gets the "under the table cash?" Jiminio and company or Malone, Mangold and O'Brien and company? It's time the less-than-honorable people who make public policy decisions do it in the light of day.

    ReplyDelete
  31. Ray as usual you hit the nail on trhe head with the statement "The waste treatment issue should be, but probably won't be, an economic or business decision not a political decision."

    It will never be a business decision, since when has anything ever been a sound business decision in this town?

    ReplyDelete
  32. This kind of bloviating comment on Talks is and example of the reason that taxpayers need to get involved in what is going on with the sewer "solution." I've not seen such a pile of bile in a long time. The assertion of questions asked and answered is patently false.

    "#1 - it IS a business decision - Gadflies are making it political!
    #2 - the waste water treatement is/has been fully explored - what you fail to see is that its not going your way BECAUSE of tax issues - present and future tax issues- revenue issues, immediate cash flow expenditures that EGB would incur that would guarantee raise your tax bill. ALL of this has been talked about for years . Dwight is not the only one who has this information. Interpretation of all material and opinions available is that EGB is far better off without Rensselaer County.
    Rensselaer County only wants our money so that they can come into NYS Health Dept. Compliance. They cannot handle the extra load from East Greenbush, and if they tried to guess what?? They would be dumping raw waste into the Hudson River.
    You gadfliers are making this a political thing when its clearly a business decision and while you may have the desire to know everything about it- your ignorance of the topic and ALL of everything that it entails does not excuse your never ending demands. There are some business decisions being made by Town employees that are clearly in the best interests of East Greenbush, in both the present as well as the future.
    Sorry you don't like the people making those decisions - none of this is really your call, nor do you have any voice in the negotiations. You have obviously made your opinions known, they have been noted and business will proceed- period.
    As noted by Ray Mooney : this was/is a fact based decision BY THE TOWN BOARD ! and.....BTW: the Board is sharing their decisions with the taxpayers- I'm not sure what else you need to know- thye have made a decision, voiced it and it was recorded at the last Town Board meeting. Done- questions were asked and answered !"

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  33. Trust me, gadflies aren't making it political. Nobody in power likes us. We've given McCabe a hard time, we've given Langley a hard time. No difference. If there is ONE thing I want people to know it is that: it can only be political when you represent some other interest. We represent no interest except our wallets. Period. As for what others know or don't know, I'll be the first to admit I don't it all. I only know what I see. If the decision-makers aren't sharing information with the people, that leaves only one avenue, and a partial one at best: FOIL documents, scan the web, try to piece together the info on your own. Remember the Water/Sewer presentation Hank LaBarba did last year on the rates? It was very good, very detailed, with photos, charts, etc. That was just for rate increases. If we're going to drop millions on a project, one way or another, I think decency and common sense should prevail, since we're the ones paying for it. Just lay out the case and the issue goes away. I don't know why that's so hard for you to understand. Dwight

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  34. These two quotes are for our friends and neighbors on Talks:

    "The most important office...that of private citizen."
    Judge Louis Brandeis

    "I always believe that ultimately, if people are paying attention, then we get good government."
    Barack Obama

    I do not understand why it is such a big deal for the town board to simply share a comparison of the pros and cons of both waste treatment plant expansion options along with the supporting documentation and a cost comparison of the two options.

    That's not politics. That's just good government and holding our elected officials accountable for a multi million dollar decision we, the taxpayers, will be paying for well into our futures.

    Dwight Jenkins has provided facts, figures, details and a whole lot more. I have yet to see anything comparable from the town board or our friends and neighbors on Talks.

    ReplyDelete
  35. Here's why it is so hard to trust the town board:

    Stipends
    Nepotism appointments
    Your stance on the ethics code
    Games with FOILs - "interagency", "draft" and other Liccardi games
    Sue Mangold's multiple absentions
    Langley's public comment changes
    Rich Benko's billing the town as a consultant while also an employee
    Malone's threats to a state employee
    Cutting Langley's pay
    Adding unneeded jobs

    There's a ton more. The problem is that the pattern of political gamemanship is unbroken.

    Trust is earned by being open and honest. By sharing. By answering questions.

    Really Langley, O'Brien, Matters, Mangold and Malone it is not all that hard to get and keep the trust of citizens. The longer you go failing to earn our trust the harder it will be to ever get it back.

    ReplyDelete
  36. The boys on Talks are messing their diapers over this issue - even to the point of deleting comments.

    Charging for I&I is supposedly the "issue" that the majority used to blow up the discussions. I&I is the stuff they are fixing now with the liners, and could have been done years ago with the funds "inter-fund transferred" to the General Fund and used for other things. They didn't manage the system correctly in the first place and took the infrastructure money and used it for unbudgeted expenses in the General Fund. (See the OSC 2008 Report.) Now we've got a bigger problem and the same crew wants to continue to be in charge and insult in the process those who have legitimate questions. Is this Malone? We're the majority and what we pass, passes?

    ReplyDelete
  37. In connection with the I&I issue, I remember that several years ago, as I'm sure other property owners will, filling out a questionnaire related to whether I had a basement sump pump which was dumping into the sewer system. I don't. But as I recall, the matter went nowhere until just very recently when the Orders on Consent became public.

    The point is that much of what is troublesome now to the sewer system could have been addressed long ago if those in charge had been awake to what "might be happening." They ignored it and took the money available to address the problems. Now they want us to believe that they have the answers - and got them in private.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Who were the people who got those. We never did here.
      I never even head anything about that.. till just now reading it.

      Delete
  38. Diogenes (the younger)August 20, 2012 at 8:53 PM

    So the MOM bunch wants to get something moving here before the questions get asked and answered in public? I'm beginning to get an idea why the financial disclosure issue was of such importance to Ms. Mangold and the majority. If we're feeding the donors and relatives the first places on the future connection list, we don't want to disclose too much too close to home.

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  39. Anonymous by necessityAugust 21, 2012 at 12:32 PM

    1/3 of the comments so far posted on the new thread on Talks are direct attacks on certain citizens, in particular one, who choose to rely on documentation and facts rather than bombastic vague statements from anonymous nobodies. At least they own what they say instead of hiding behind anonymity. You on Talks are all cowards. If you really believe what you say what's the harm in putting your name on it? What are you afraid of? You already say opposition is futile. Or are you expressing yourself during work time and don't want to get caught?

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  40. 12:32 - really? You brave soul! Are you blogging on work time?

    ReplyDelete
  41. Anonymous by necessityAugust 21, 2012 at 2:04 PM

    Nah....Just an independently wealthy monitor of your activities. If Langley had any guts, he'd have Mastin put some blocks on the Town Hall computers and start monitoring who's visiting what and for how long. It's in the policy. Just hasn't been implemented. A couple of you would be shut down.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. U can almost bet they are blogging on work time..
      I would love to see them get caught.
      Would be interesting to see..

      Delete
  42. Just finished reviewing the foiled 2010 to present invoices paid to sewer consultant LaBarba. Many invoices had Water charges factored in, so I took those out, as the Water fix seems to have gone swimmingly. Something that jumped out right away was that as far back as January 2010 Mr. LaBarba was working on NYS DEC Consent order issues, so clearly this was a known issue for quite some time. No progress up until now, probably only because of media coverage though. Many of the subsequent invoices likewise had NYS DEC Consent Order charges for hours spent studying the problem, going to meetings, etc.

    In 2010 we paid Mr. LaBarba about $25,000 for sewer-related work. About $16,000 of that came from our $400,000 Local Government Efficiency grant, mentioned above. That was State money given to us to come up with a bypass solution. Approximately 424 hours were spent on our sewer "stuff" that year, including many regular charges for Miscellaneous Operations and Industrial Program items. Normal things. Day to day things.

    In 2011 we paid Mr. LaBarba another $41,000 or so, with about $25,000 of it coming from State LGE grant funds for the bypass solution. So far in 2012 we have paid about $22,000 for sewer work in Town, with $4,590 of that coming from LGE grant funds for, yes, the bypass. It's important to note that when we spend LGE dollars we are forced to pay 10% of whatever the bill is. Since January 2010 the Sewer Consultant has received about $46,000 in State Grant money for a sewer bypass solution. That represents more than 600 hours of meetings, reviews, correspondences, reports, etc. Not one hour, not one dollar was ever spent on anything labeled "expansion" or "retrofit" or "upgrade" of existing facilities, whether the money came from the State or from Town taxes. Not one. And yet we proposed exactly that to the DEC just a couple of weeks ago.

    So whose fault is it? Could the County be playing hardball for their own purposes, as has been suggested here, anonymously? Sure, why not. Maybe someone else could handle that end of it? I've shown one angle of this mess. I would love to see someone else show other angles. One of them, little noticed until you see the vouchers, is money the State has paid Mr. LaBarba since last year for Consulting Services- NYSDEC Water Quality Improvement Project Hampton Manor Lake. This is another State Grant for which New Yorkers have thus far paid about $13,000 to study Hampton Manor's water. Does it taste any different yet? Same color? Keep us posted please.

    Please keep in mind this is in no way meant to be an indictment of Mr. LaBarba's expertise or ethics, but I can't just say we payed some anonymous blogger. No, we are talking about a public figure, one who has played a very prominent role in the past, present, and possible future of our sewer system. It's your money, you have a right to know where it's going.

    Next up: Legal Vouchers for our Sewer problems coming from attorney Margot Thomas, of the same Albany address as Mr. LaBarba. Not quite sure how that works. Seems a little odd, but hey, I'm just a happy-pilled moron who likes to bitch, according to East Greenbush Talks. Bonnie, how about we compromise and just ask that God's will be done to or for them? That way He can go Old or New Testament. And anonymously, of course, since that's the way they seem to like it and God doesn't seem to need the credit. Dwight

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  43. Positive Business StepsAugust 23, 2012 at 8:54 AM

    This comment is prefaced with this statement--the following comment does not belong on this thread but there is no place else to write it and it is a NEW topic of interest to consider for FUTURE development of Col Tpke.
    Today, it was announced that Savannah's in Albany will be closing, after 40 years. That will be 4 bars/restaurants in Albany that are moving out for various reasons. Jillians closed due to security concerns that negatively impacted business, Savannah's is closing due to a landlord dispute, etc. Is ANYONE reaching out to these bars/restaurant owners to work with them on possibly considering EG, the lower part of Col Tpke? The location is close enough to Albany that patrons could easily take the Dunn Memorial Bridge. There is plenty of parking available on lower Col Tpke buildings/locations. EG is safe (we have approximately 30 police officers for a 24 sq mile town, more police than miles). There are PLENTY of empty buildings/locations available. It would draw from Albany and their currents patrons as well as Rensselaer, EG, NG, and Schodack. It could be touted as a new "Entertainment District" on lower Col Tpke. If marketed correctly and if current property owners worked with the restaurants/bars and Town officials, the bars could all be within walking distance of each other which would make it much more attractive for patrons. Restaurants and bars that are in close proximity do better than those that are spaced far apart, people eat at one and then walk to another for drinks and to mingle after. It could not hurt to try it and begin meeting with the owners of the establishments that are closing in Albany.
    This would be something POSITIVE our newly elected Supervisor could work on, or better yet, Phil Malone could work on it. He is the age and demographic that frequents such establishments. The fact is, it doesn't matter which party the Town Official is from because this project and development is a positive step for the Town.

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  44. Dwight finally said something we can agree on. You will find it

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    Replies
    1. So far, all we've had in juxtaposition to Dwight's research is an allegation that "the County" caused the change in direction in the sewer planning. Nothing has shown up with regard to the content of this County activity which is supposed to have the force to cause the change. I've suggested that it is the County's position that EG should pay extra for I & I. I don't know whether this is legitimate or not. But nobody saying that the change in direction is warranted has stepped up to make a cogent explanation - with timetables and numbers - they're just saying "it's the County's fault." And Dwight should find it if he keeps looking. Come on Phil, Keith, Rick, Ginny, Sue.....can't you make a statement with content? This isn't just one of those "every little things" that needn't be reported.

      Delete
  45. Not in a million years would I recommend bringing a nightclub to EGB. There's got to be a better choice. Crime beyond your wildest imagination follows clubs like Jillians and Savannahs. The EGPD could not handle the increase in requests for police every single night of the week. I owned a bar and have worked in the industry for 30+ years. Its not worth it.

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  46. Positive Business StepsAugust 23, 2012 at 10:43 AM

    Regarding my comment, "Positive Business StepsAugust 23, 2012 8:54 AM", it would increase stress on our current sewer system so maybe it does belong on this thread. It's difficult to bring in business and grow the town when we can't efficiently and legally handle our waste.

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  47. Positive Business StepsAugust 23, 2012 at 11:07 AM

    AnonymousAugust 23, 2012 10:39 AM--that's sad, "The EGPD could not handle the increase in requests for police every single night of the week," probably true but very sad. It a shame when a something that can be used for a positive reasons is turned into an issue of crime. That was Jillian's issue in Albany. Yet, Teagan's and the Clubhouse did not see crime increases, nor does Chez Mike's. Maybe it is the location of the night club that draws the crime and not the night club itself. If they are located in areas where crime is not so prevalent (Saratoga does not seem to have a crime issue and they many bars/restaurants) then the criminal element may not be a problem. Something to ponder.

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  48. The Clubhouse and Chez Mikes are nowhere near the size of a Jillians, nor do they attract the same age group. That was my point...your not talking about attracting people in the 40-50's- your talking about large groups of college age kids, power drinkers. Otherwise your idea was clearly a good suggestion - reality is that it probably doesn't fit in East Greenbush.

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  49. AnonymousAugust 23, 2012 11:58 AM---My apologies. "Power drinkers" is a term I am not familiar with and "Power drinkers" is not a "group" I was considering. I do know there are people in their 30's--40's that are attracted to Jillian's and Brown Derby. The suggestion was not limited to bars as I also stated restaurants. It was a suggestion thrown on the table meant for discussion and development, much like how a brain storming session begins with one idea and then is massaged by the group. But hey, if you want to be negative and poo poo any positive suggestions please don't hesitate. It certainly exemplifies why the town stands still in time and can't see progress. Suggestion retracted.

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  50. Dwight, I agree on the compromise. God's will be done here in EG. Just a note concerning Hampton Manor lake. Recently I heard a person comment that it's a shame what is happening to Hampton Manor Lake. They said it was the state's fault. What's up with that???

    What's happening with the Town Park's polluted waters? How does these things get out of hand and the waters un-swimmable for such a long time? The locals in the Manor have been pretty much disgusted with the condition of the Manor Lake for some time now. Our gem (Manor Lake) has been tarnished for too long. I am questioning the lengthy time it takes to address our water ways.

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  51. Bonnie L--What's happened to Manor Lake is a sin. That could be such a pretty public park again.

    ReplyDelete
  52. Bonnie, I don;t think there is anything surprising about the condition of any town park or lake.

    Take a look at town hall. Does it make a good first impression? Is the condition of town hall anything to be proud of?

    The people in positions of leadership just do not care enough to do anything to make our town facilities something to be proud of.

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  53. Bonnie....the people elected to look after these things just didn't do it. It was not until citizens got involved to shine the light of day on what was being ignored that the problems started getting addressed. And now we are way behind the curve. Remember when Dwight first discovered the e-coli in Town Park the former Supervisor denied it - even in the face of evidence. The DEC fines kept getting paid too, instead of addressing the issue which they were supposed to highlight. Ordinary citizens CAN take the credit for the leadership in getting these issues noticed. If they are not addressed, the politicians should be removed.

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  54. To August 23rd, 10:29: I FINALLY said something we can agree on? Man, I've said a LOT, and that's the FIRST thing????? Well, I'll take it. Now, if you would just direct me where to FOIL the records that would put the blame on the County I would be happy to do so! I just don't know who to FOIL and what to ask for. C'mon now, take the extra step and point my compass in the right direction. Stay anonymous, I don't care, I just want to know the truth, like most of you. Dwight

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  55. I have to disagree about the Manor lake being completely the states fault. It is more like our ex supervisor.. If anyone remembers a few things like wanting to purchase the golf course and the secret stipends.. Willing to neglect the two main parks for the kids and purchase a golf course and raise taxes and then take stipends..Of course not sure why they didn't get the golf course.. but do remember them wanting one.

    that is more like the truth here as far as I am concerned.
    If anyone remembers they didn't want it to leak out about the health department shutting it down and for what the reason was...
    that was foiled I believe by Dwight and was a topic a few years ago.
    They sure know how to spend our money and raise taxes for everyone even if you were not going to use it.
    Like our transfere station.. we are all paying for that even if you are not dumping up there. Look how they have kept the information about our waste water treatment plant.

    All good reasons to keep a close eye on this bunch.
    If they can let anything slide by they will esecially if it will benifit themselves.

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  56. Is Bill Malone still supporting Keith Hammond, or is his campaign sign just as real as his building permit?

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    Replies
    1. Who cares ....really there's bigger concerns here!

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  57. Any discussion and potential on buying a golf course would be like every other decision around here - not well thought out.

    Golf is in a state of declines across the US. Has been for years and there are tons of data to prove it. Course courses all over are failing. Ever take note of all the ads and deals in the TU sports section every Sunday?


    Golf courses are very serious money pits. They require vast quantities of maintenance. Maintenance costs money - lots and lots of it.

    We can't even come close to properly maintaining town park. Ever go into a rest room? Don't. You will be groused out. Big time.

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    Replies
    1. check Guilderland and Colonie to see what money pits golf courses are HA

      Delete
  58. I had mentioned above that the "water fix seems to have gone swimmingly." Upon reviewing the invoices from Attorney Margot Thomas, of 100 Trillium Lane, Albany (which is the same address as the invoices submitted by sewer engineer Hank LaBarba), it becomes clear that while the technical aspects of the water fix went well, the behind the scenes waters were full of sharks. Invoices from 2010 to present reveal Water Contract Litigation involving Rensselaer, Troy and East Greenbush over who was paying what now that the money was already spent and the repairs made. It's like 3 people owning a car that needs repairs. One of them finally gets the money and takes the car to the shop to get the car fixed. The bill is high, but there was some sort of "agreement" in place that the 3 would share the expense. Then, when the bill came due, no one wanted to pay.

    So Margot indeed engaged in litigation on behalf of East Greenbush, going to court, serving process, FOILing for documents, etc. Sounds like Gadfly material. Maybe we'll make her an honorary Gadfly? One big difference though: her activities cost $250/hour. The total for the six vouchers I reviewed came in at about $70,000 which you and I spent because the original agreement or contract or handshake or raised glass toast at a local establishment did not have the proper force of law behind it.

    Sad. Not for Trillium Lane, but for us. Trillium Lane made out fine at $75-$85/hour for sewer services over the years ($75/hour for EG charges, $85/hour if grant money was being spent) and $250/hour for legal services, both on the Water side of the house and the Sewer side. Sewer legal fees have been slightly less up until June of this year, totaling about $64,250 since 2010.

    As with the Professional Engineering invoices for the sewer problems, the legal vouchers gave no hint of fees for expansion of the facilities here in Town. It was all for Intermunicipal Agreement, I.e. ByPass work. Much of that money came from State grant funds designated specifically for playing nicely with our neighbors' poop, to save all of us money. But that's not what we kind-of finally submitted to the State as a solution to our violations of Consent Orders. No, we submitted an expansion of existing facilities option, but we're being told on Talks that it was the County's fault. You can see above where I asked for some help from Talks, someone to point me in a direction to FOIL for documents over there. Unlike the attorney, I do mine for free. Unlike the attorney, I don't bill for e-mails. Unlike the attorney, I don't bill for travel to and from meetings. Unlike the attorney, I don't bill for copying and/ or reproduction. The FOILS which produced these articles cost me $46.00, but it was money well spent. He else would we even get this partial glimpse? You're welcome, East Greenbush. Talks? Don't even bother, you have nothing constructive to say, nothing instructive to say, only destructive BS. Who cares!!!! Dwight Jenkns

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  59. What is being done with the location of the old Tegans?
    I would think that the town would issue some tickets due to safty issues with that area.
    How can they be allowed to leave those buidings hanging like they are. Noticed, that the Teagans roof looks like it is just hanging and ready to fall with the next good wind gust.
    Why are they allowd to leave them like that and get away with it?
    Even Major Jennings would have them take the buidlings down due to safty issues.
    Was I misinformed about them belonging to the Mangold family or Harts? Is that why it is being allowed?
    Anyone want to post why this is the way it is and why these people are getting away with these buidings looking the way they do?
    It definately detracts from that area..
    What say you about this issue.

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  60. The old Tegans is owned by Sue Mangold's father. The Hart family is the proud owner of that.

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  61. Dear 8:37 AM:

    Unused buildings are typically gutted to support a property tax appeal. The "logic" is a gutted building is worthless and therefore the assessed value of the property is much lower.

    I believe if you check the tax rolls and the certiori appeals and resolutions you will find a property tax appeal and reduction for that property.

    Take a look will you? Let us know who owns property while you are at it.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Okay, I can except that. But why no fense for safty?
      I believe that if it belonged to anyone else they would be made to secure the buidlings from public for safty reasons.
      I believe that, that if someone was to get hurt just walking by that property that the town and the owners would be at fault.. Talking law suite.

      Delete
  62. tax rolls are already set for 2013. appeals process has run it's course and tax rolls are final as of july 1

    if there was a tax cert and appeal, well thats good business practice

    fyi, planning board agenda for 8.8.12 includes item (12-16) Teagan’s- Columbia Trpk-Major Site Plan-accept sketch plan and recommend the Town Board declare lead agency

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  63. A continuing debate about the town owning a golf course makes me crazy.

    First, look at any town facility around here and its declining condition and how it is maintained and address what confidence we might have that a golf course would be managed differently and better. Give me a break.

    If you missed the consultant's review of current town parks and took a look at the photos you would not be filled with confidence of our town's ability to maintain anything to any kind of decent standard.

    Google golf course profitability. Read any of the articles. The trend is away from municipal golf courses for a sweeping range of basic, common sense, good business reasons.

    Do all those municipalities know something that East Greenbush could learn from? Very probably.

    On a related comment...don't you just LOVE what Sue Mangold's family has done with the former Teagan's property? Haven't they just used their domination of our town to contribute SO much to the beauty that is Columbia Turnpike?

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  64. The purchase of Pheasant Run was indeed a real possibility before OSC came to Town in 2008 and pointed out to citizens that the Town had a $2.5 million debt from the inter-fund borrowing. Whether Talks likes it or not, we can thank Danaher, Matters and Cristo for putting the ka-bosh on that really dumb idea. (Talk at the time was that managing it was supposed to be some kind of retirement venue for McCabe.)

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  65. I am not sure I have the capacity (pun intended) to give a summary of all the comments on this single thread its just due. But try, if you readers do not mind, to re-read everything on just this single thread.

    Go through all the openly violated Consent Decrees. Ask yourself...could I get away with violating the law so conveniently?

    Look at the hundreds of thousands of our dollars misspent. Ask yourself...would I manage my own household the way all these town boards have managed our town and our money?

    Look at the complete history of bad decisions, no decisions or decisions made in some narrow self serving way. Ask yourself...is that what a true representative of the people does?

    We are going to get our first shot at doing something about all the topics discussed on this single thread next year. Ask yourself...why in the name that is all that is good and decent would I vote for any incumbent running for office in this town?

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  66. Good points, Anon at 4:12 AM. Something else: this whole thing is like one of those outwardly non-sensical pictures comprised of dots and colored shapes in no apparent order. Hold them close to your eyes though, let your brain relax and see whatever it sees, and suddenly a three-dimensional image becomes obvious. Looking at this thread what becomes obvious is that we have a vicious cycle of violating consent orders and then spending money on mitigating the ramifications of those violations, around and around, like the dog chasing its tail, with all the billing to the Town coming from the exact same address in Albany, a two-for-one mugging of the taxpayers, all under the auspices and oversight of the County Water and Sewer Authority, where again the sewer consulting expert shares the same name and address in Albany. Fascinating. Endlessly fascinating, this stupid little cow town run by men and women with a dung-heap mentality and the ethics of a hyena: grab what you can while the gettin's good. Fascinating.

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  67. This comment is for our friends and neighbors on Talks.

    This posting and a whole bunch of others on this blog are detailed with FACTS. Facts obtained through FOILs. Those FOILs and their facts are not spun, not opinion, contain no cheap shots and are just FACTS.

    Cheap shots at Don Johnson and Mike Cristo (Still?) are NOT facts.

    An honest discussion of the facts around the waste treatment capacity issue would be a great way to take a non partisan approach to addressing problems in our town.

    Are any of you capable of such a discussion?

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  68. You're going to enjoy this, boys and girls.....Quoted below is the latest on the Talks blog, and posted here for your information and comment. The first four sentences are absolutely amazing!!!! And this one's a gem too: "You can stop the quibbling and attempts at open and honest dialog."

    HERE IT IS FROM TALKS....HAVE AT IT!!

    "Compliments of a supporter of the BoardAugust 25, 2012 6:20 PM

    Clearly there's a disagreement on the Poop problem and solution(s). Opinions were given on both sides of the argument.
    When it was decided by the Town Board that they would NOT be proceeding further with any BYPASS option, it was explained what the reasoning was and what some of us knew was the underlying causes for such a decision. Those reasons are not foilable, but were given openly and honestly here on the TALKS blog.
    The simple fact that Johnson nor Jenkins can fathom that their version was not going to happen has obviously sent them and their cadre of minions out into the stratosphere.
    You can stop the quibbling and attempts at open and honest dialog.
    People here responded without quipping and senseless name calling to Johnson and he responded angrily demanding people see his point of view and making "promises" that our water bills will go thru the ceiling and that the Board is/has been looking for a deal breaker - etc.... You now complain because people react to Johnsons bullying techniques in your feeble attempt to shift blame.
    Not everyone in East Greenbush is as cynical or full of hate as Johnson,Mooney, Jenkins and company.
    Dwight and Don write angry all the time. So sorry you can't step outside your little world for the entire picture.
    East Greenbush Town Board has decided NOT to do the bypass - it would appear that is the end of the discussion. Most of us are content with that decision. What's next ? You've decided to bring up old news in a feeble attempt to once again discredit Rick McCabe. You constantly throw daggers at Sue Mangold. Your relentless in your weak attacks on Ginny. I can only imagine who your next target will be, fueled by rumor and jealousy and hatred no doubt."

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    1. I would like to know if their is a set fee for water. CAuse my water bills remain the same with a pool as without a pool. My pool has been down now for about two years?
      I have put new tolets in my home and i have also gotten upgraded washer and diswasher to save on water.
      So any explaination of why my water bills are still the same and higher?

      Delete
  69. This is a partial response to the Talks comment. I am not Dwight, Don or Ray and I am not filled with hate. I am filled with wonder at how totally stupid and ignorant you people are. You say the reasons for dumping the bypass idea can not be foiled but yet you state the reasons were given honestly on the Talks blog. Well who are you people? I guess you can't be an average citizen because how would you know something that was not for public consumption? Are you Town Board members? Why
    should anybody believe anything that you say when you hide behind anonymity?
    I especially like the part where you say we can forget any attempts at open dialog, Yeah baby, especially with you -- You all belong on an episode of Swamp People -- but then I would really feel sorry for the alligators.

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    Replies
    1. Talks blog is full of hot air. They think they know it all and I am not sure why any of us really truely care What they think or say but I would let it all go.
      Waste of time and energy.
      I would like to add that their motives are clearly to stay on the good side of the majority board.
      You all know political motivated reason.
      Much like it has been for many many years.
      It is shear ignorance on their part people.
      We all know when you go with the flow and you don't ask questions what u get in this town. A bunch of idiots on our dime.

      Delete
  70. Dear 7:27 PM:

    I am not full of hate. Not at all.

    I am full of unanswered questions. I am full of puzzlement in the decisions made by the Town Board - especially the current majority.

    Those decision often do not make good business sense to me. So, I question things when I can and I write about them.

    Questioning the staus quo always seems to lead to backlash. And on the waste treatment capacity so called "debate" on this and the Talks blog the facts seem very clearly and very obviously here.

    Dwight Jenkins has done the single most serious and complete piece of reporting I have ever seen in our town. His reward? Attacks from people probably heavily invested in the status quo.

    There as old saying among lawyers that applies perfectly to our friends and neighbors on Talks:

    "When you have the facts on your side argue the facts." That's Dwight and Don.

    "When you have the law on your side argue the law." That, too, is Dwight and Don.

    "When you have neither the facts nor the law on your side go on the attack." And that seems to rather perfectly characterize the commentors on the Talks blog.

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  71. Gadflies;
    When you elect a town board, or any other body, you entrust them and empower them to make decisions for the town and its people. When need be, an issue will be brought to a vote of the citizens in a referrendum. That has not happened in the Treatment Plant issue. So guess what, you,I or noone else but the town board decides which avenue will be taken. Deal with it. Let the town board do its job. Too bad if they aren't the people you personally voted for. the majority did! By the way, have you noticed the FED EX project is completed and up and running? Yeah, thats right, no traffic jams,noise or pollution. How come nobody has mentioned any of that? I'm sure things up on Thompson Hill can't be too bad, or we would have heard from Mr Jenkins. There is a perfect example of something that is great for the town, that wouldn't have happened if the Gadflies had their way. What say you??

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    Replies
    1. You're the best argument I've seen lately for "you can't fix stupid."

      Delete
    2. I guess you don't live near that area do you?
      I guess you think you are a wise guy who knows something don't you.

      Time does tell all and it hasn't been in operation long enough to actually see the impact yet has it?
      Has anyone up on the hill tried to sell their home up there yet?
      Does anyone know if that area will be affected with the sale price of their home?

      Delete
  72. Well, we were letting the Town Board "do its job" for thirteen years of Orders on Consent and fines. Not such a wonderful record right? Your "argument" is the prime reason that the Town of East Greenbush is in such trouble. Was the Board "doing its job" when it transferred $2.5 million to the General Fund to spend on itself? Election doesn't confer brains or judgement. Should be very obvious in this case. Your position is just plain stupid.

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  73. Since when does the 1st Amendment go away just because the Board takes an action? We're just supposed to say "Heil Hitler" and march on, quietly? I don't think so. Is that how you treat your County, State and National politics also? If so then you suck as a citizen and are not worthy of the title. Why, you just a itty-bitty titty baby now, aren't ya? Nice little Nazi. Well, it don't work that way here. Constitution still rules, not your foolishness. It's not FOILable? A town policy openly but anonymously discussed on a worthless rag blog like Talks, but nowhere else? Please. It just doesn't come any dumber than that. Anon anon anon anon anon.

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    Replies
    1. A decision at the town, County, State or National levels stands until overturned by that body, a superior body of jurisdiction or the courts.

      That's not nazi that's American according to the Constitutions (US and NYS) that I'm familiar with.

      Delete
    2. And this is exactly why citizens need to keep an eye on the decision making process while it is taking place. It's hard to undo an UNEXAMINED decision. And this one on the sewer question is being kept under BIG wraps. Nothing but vague comments about "the County" or "Crist" or "Cristo" doing or saying "something" (no content) that caused a 180 on the planning. This is not an "every little thing" (thank you Ms. Mangold) that need not be conveyed to the people who are paying a very big bill for prior dumb and unexamined decisions.

      Delete
    3. And decisions by those governmental organizations are fodder for discussion FOREVER! You and your friends think we should stop talking because the decision has been made by the Board????? Are you crazy? Please tell me you don't read a newspaper or watch the news because if you do that makes you an automatic hypocrite. Not that you weren't one to begin with.

      Delete
    4. No, it's un-American to tell someone the decision has been made so stop talking about it, especially when the decision has been made in secret! I guess you don't believe in newspapers, or news broadcasts, or talk radio? You sir are a communist or a Nazi. Which? No one's calling for the decision on the sewer fix to be overturned. We just want to know WHY, and no one is talking.

      Delete
  74. Always a treat to wake up early on the Lord's Day and see one's name posted in vain regarding Fed Ex. "No traffic jams, noise, or pollution." Were you born stupid or did you just acquire a taste for it? Just this past week there were 12 Fed Ex trucks lined up in the left lane at about 8:00 AM, waiting to take that left onto I-90 West. With cars interspersed and behind, the traffic was backed up to beyond the top of the hill. Anyone trying to take a left onto Rt.4 from Mannix was going nowhere fast, or slow. Pollution? Unless all those trucks are running on Willie Nelson's peanut oil, I think it's safe to assume there's additional truck pollution, dummy. As for noise, did you know big trucks make big noise? No? Come on up on Thompson Hill with me some morning during the work week and I'll personally escort you through the pleasures of the new neighbors. It also looks like a Federal Prison Camp and, if I remember correctly, moron, the operation is only partly functional at this juncture, with additional phases planned for upcoming years. As for bitching about it, why bother? You haven't heard me bitch about the fact that the Town hasn't paved my road in the 18 years that I have been here either, have you? It's even a stretch to call that piece of crap a paved road. Lately there's been some high quality patching of the bigger holes, but we don't complain. We know what it's about: payback for fighting against the illegally oversized Thompson Way development on our hill. when most of the residents signed a petition against the development, citing numerous legal impediments. The supervisor at the time was heard to say that the residents on the hill would NEVER see pavement if he had anything to do about it. I guess he did. But you probably didn't know that. There's plenty more that could be complained about, raised hell about, reported on. Keep it up and I'll make sure I don't disappoint you. Dwight Jenkins

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    Replies
    1. Dwight, someone must have been good to the old Supervisor in Park East, cause they have been paved more then most roads here in town.
      Did anyone know that the Sherwood park area has been finally paved, and what a crap job that cost the taxpayers tons of money. Some people came home to speed bumbs acrossed their driveways. Some of the roads have been recut and fixed a few times. Sense the paving. Great job East Greenbush on blowing taxpayers money.
      Look what we have to look forward to the future with these bumbs.
      They sure know how to waste money and love doing! All at the taxpayers exspence.

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  75. Oh, and yes, put me down for one order of hate. The God of love has filled me with hate for those who take advantage of others, for bullies and cowards, for thieves and liars. Have a GREAT DAY! Love, Dwight

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  76. Dear 9:00 PM:

    What exactly are you suggesting? That we cannot question people once we elect them? Surely you do not mean that. Do you?

    Questioning elected people; holding them accountable is a requirement of a participatory democracy? Did you skip civics class?

    What you are suggesting begins to encroach on the very definition of tyranny.

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  77. 9:00 PM:

    Do you know that MA sued Fed Ex? Do you know that NY is suing Fed Ex as well? Do you know why?

    Look it up yourself; I am not going to do it for you.

    Do you pay property taxes? Do you feel that Fed Ex is paying their fair share of property taxes? Fed Ex is a multi billion (That's billion with a B) dollar corporation. Don't you think they could easily afford to pay their fair share of property taxes?

    Isn't paying a fair share of taxes an key plank in the national Democratic Party platform?

    Why do the individual taxpayers of East Greenbush have to give a "donation" of their hard earned momney to a huge corporation like Fed Ex? Can you, in your deep and considerable wisdom, make that make sense to all of the taxpayers in East Greenbush?

    Please...go for it. We all look forward to your next contribution.

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    1. i pay property taxes and i'm glad fedex is here

      time you get into the real world

      if ida didn't give the tax support fed ex would have gone where they'd get them and fed ex is paying a total of 3.2 million bucks over 20 years

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  78. Lets not forget one other point why was the FedEx project even allowed when the so called people that run our town knew that there was sewer issues???? So maybe the person that implied that there was no problems with FedEx could explain that one? We have to much poop already and now add in the FedEx shop.

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  79. Money. We desperately needed it, the County desperately wanted it, the State regulations could be bought off, we've had a sugar-daddy in the Legislature for many years: money. Money=Sewer. Don's videos show the dancing on egg-shells, the reluctance to blame the county outright for fear of alienating them, the lame attempts by almost everyone but Ginny to stick a pacifier in our mouths: money. Dwight

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    1. U can bet that the fed ex was padding someones palms.. on this fed ex deal.
      If any of you reamember that was a done deal already with the county and was announced before East Greenbush made the deal.
      I guess the town would want you to know they were in negotiations.. but that wasn't the truth..
      Was it majority board members?
      The Deal was done right from the start.

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  80. There is an interesting article about sewers in Halfmoon. In this morning's TU

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  81. If FedEx stays for 20 years and they in fact pay $160,000 a year ($3.2 million divided by 20) for all of those years, I guess you could make a case that it's worth it. Are they paying the same rate as other business are paying? Don't know. Was I opposed to the project? Of course, as anyone would be with a project that size going up directly across the street from them, but also as one that has to share the road with that many extra vehicles per day.

    Quite honestly, they don't bother me very much anymore. I've moved on. The only reason it even came up on this thread was because some jerk mentioned me by name in relation to the project. I had no intentions of making FedEx an issue. Still don't. The Town seems to have pretty much followed the rules with it, as I recall, except that the decision was made before the Board even voted on it, as announced by Ms. Jimino at a breakfast club meeting. Whatev.

    In any event we had studies, public hearings, informational sessions, etc. Everything we haven't had yet with our sewer problem. I think we've already spent a couple million from the 2008 sewer bond and now we're going to borrow millions more for expansion if the Town plan gets accepted by DEC. That should put us up somewhere around $11 million for the sewer fix. What do you think the debt service on all that borrowing will be every year? I'll guess it comes close to the taxes that FedEx is paying. So poorly managed Sewers and FedEx probably pretty much cancel each other out. Maybe in that sense FedEx was a saving grace? Dwight

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  82. Re: paving, I just assumed that no one in Town was getting their roads paved since mine never was....NOT. Actually the horrendous condition of the road keeps vehicle speed down. Already lost a couple of cats over the years to wanna-be race car drivers on the hill, but most choose to drive as though they were searching for IED wires- slowly, to avoid the nearly unavoidable potholes and extreme decay. I usually think it's funny until I roll an ankle while running at night. Then it's not funny. Could be looking at a nice negligence case though.... Dwight

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    1. I bet you are on the bad list Dwight.
      Cause Sherwood park had them down there just a month ago and they paved one of the side roads. I heard years hack that they had quite a few jobs that were on a list. Maybe you might want to check with the town and see were you street or road is on that list and if you can get it on there.
      I hate this system.. I can't see most of the letters to reply on here to send this stuff. can u fix this at all.

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  83. Dwight;
    Why not just call the Commissioner and find out what is happening? From what I hear, he is very accessable and easy to talk to. He even returns phone calls! Hint - Hint.

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  84. Anon, I wouldn't call the DPW Commissioner because I assume he'll get to us when he gets to us. Of all the governmental areas in East Greenbush that exist, DPW has never really been on my radar. They seem to do a good enough job; I used to do summer work for them as a teenager so I kind of know how it goes there; they're working stiffs like me; union Joe's like me; and I understand that, as in the military, they take their orders from higher up: Town Hall, in this case. So basically I got no problems with DPW. Maybe others do, but not me. Town Hall? Well, different story. Dwight

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  85. Well, Dwight, you might be waiting a long time. But then again the town hall people that are reading this blog might want to relay a message.. Dwights road needs to be paved.

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  86. Anyone know much about the judges running this fall?
    See the dumpy trailer on 9&20. If that doesn't look great for our town. they should have seen if they could place it next to the old Mikey D's.
    That is more fitting!

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    1. If you check with the Building Department, I think you will find that the trailer sign is illegal. I believe that the owner of the business (guess who) can only advertise his own business there - and the sign must also meet the size code for EG. They just never stop, do they?

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    2. " They " are not people associated with EGB. "They" are county level people.

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    3. The "they" who are paying for it may be the county level people, but the "they" who are responsible for enforcing the EGB Zoning Code are associated with EGB. This was an issue in the last election, so the EGB "theys" are aware of it, and I think they drive by every day. "Fortuitous ignoring."

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  87. I have a wonderful idea. Take the truck trailer to the scrape yard and see how much money the town can get for the scrap? Maybe that would help our deficit.

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