I just got the anonymous "comment" below, and without the permission of the sender, I've decided to make it a new Post. It captures the political dilemma in our Town. The minority has an opportunity to move the Town forward with an aggressive agenda to reform what needs to be reformed in our Town. But we haven't heard a thing about what the minority would do with a majority. Give us a reason to vote for you!!
It's only a rumor, but I've heard that the Republican Chair has instructed his candidates NOT to address issues. I hope that this is not the case. We need to hear candidates on issues. The absence of "content" from a candidate should demonstrate inability to serve the public in responsible office. I have no idea what "instructions" have been given to the Democratic candidates.
This blog space is open to ANY candidate to publish his/her position(s) on policy issues facing the Town.
------ The East Greenbush Gadfly
"Supervisor Langley blames voters for not giving him a majority on the town board. It is an excuse with some minor merit.
But
where the excuse falls short is that Supervisor Langley does not now,
and never has yet, told voters why they should give majority control of
the town board.
If he had even an ounce of leadership and some
vision for our town I am more than confident voters would sign up and
give him the majority that would eliminate his excuses.
But when all he chooses to offer are excuses voters are, very understandably, not sure what they would be voting for.
Here's
a news flash Mr. Supervisor...registered Democrats are more numerous
than any other political party. If you do not share and demonstrate an
ability to lead and take our town someplace new and better those more
numerous Democrats will see to it that the candidates that might give
you a majority never hold office.
The choice is truly yours BUT you simply must provide leadership, vision and a financial plan for our town."
Now before the usual comment comes with the question as to why we are being so hard on the Supervisor, let me make the point that it really does no good to "lean" on the Dems. Last time around we were promised accountability and transparency, and we were given the "inside dope" that the UHY audit opinion was Unqualified. So much for credibility. Short of an internal revolution, the Dems are into preserving and extending the status quo.
ReplyDeleteSo short of a third Party slate in the coming election, the Republicans are the hope - if they can get their act together - for straightening things out around here. If they can't shape it up into a good issue based campaign, it really won't make a difference who is elected. They will have demonstrated that they are all "cut from the same cloth."
To the author of the comment that inspired this thread I vehemently disagree. Supervisor Langley has shown voters what he would do with a majority. Doing nothing seems to be his choice, he puts forth no resolutions to recoup the stipends, he agrees with and votes for the same appointees as the current majority, he tried to take additional pay for himself, he has altered the Town Board Meetings to disallow questions that receive answers, etc. If this "man" is afraid to stand up and BE a man when he is in the minority, if this "man" refuses to lead and put forth resolutions because the majority will not agree to them than he is NOT a leader and quite obviously is certainly not a natural born leader. He is a follower and if he cannot at least try to do what is right simply because he is the minority than why should he be given a majority? To the author of that comment I say his excuses have no merit and no credibility because he does not offer resolutions to undo some of the previous wrongdoings. Truthfully, if he offered a resolution to recoup the stipends, as recommended by the OSC, he does not know how the majority would vote. The majority did not agree on the new comptroller that was appointed so they may surprise some and vote to recoup the monies improperly taken by the previous administration.
ReplyDeleteSupervisor Langley won't offer any alternatives because he supports the preservation of the status quo. That way, Mr. Langley won't have to work very hard over the final two years of his term, while still collecting his $70,000 per year salary.
ReplyDeleteTown Republican Chairman DeFruscio has been directed by the County Republican Party to do little that will attract attention to himself or his hand picked Town Board Candidates, Ms DiMartino and Mr. Randolph Cherubino.
The concern at the County Republican level is that any issue based Republican Town campaign, particularly any statements regarding the 911 Emergency Call In program, could have an unpredictable impact on the campaigns of the Republican Candidates for County Legislature.
As a result, the East Greenbush Republican Town Candidates will not be making any issue based comments this year without prior approval at the County level.
Smart move by the county Reps. to put a muzzle on Defruscio. Whenever he pops up like he did with his fake Martha letter he costs the Reps. votes. I didn't realize the county Reps. were worried about their county Leg. races. They won all four the last time. What's changed?
ReplyDeletePerhaps there is another reason Chairman DeFruscio and the EG Rep. Party have chosen to NOT address issues this year. I just took a look at their most "recent" activity filing on the State Board of Elections website. "Recent" being January, 2012.
ReplyDelete!!ATTENTION BOARD OF ELECTIONS INVESTIGATORS!!
The January, 2012 filing shows the East Greenbush Republican Committee with a NEGATIVE BALANCE of -$5,628.95, that's right MINUS -$5,628.95. The Board of Elections website is www.elections.ny.gov.
No wonder Town Republican Chairman Chris DeFruscio isn't comfortable talking about issues ...
Looks like Defruscio could use a financial recovery plan of his own.
DeleteSilly Rabbit.....TRIX are for Kids. DeFruscio certainly needs a financial recovery plan, but his Supervisor should be advancing one for the Town for which he is CFO. You don't see the majority of Malone, Mangold and O'Brien offering one do you? Nobody is being responsible. What this Town needs is some "not paid off" candidates.
DeleteWell it looks like both the Defruscio blog and the Malone blog have shut down. Doesn't surprise me a bit. They're both about the same agenda - sucking off the Town teet. So talking about issues is not in their interest. Better to preserve some semblance of machine politics which both can benefit from for the future. Patsy should be ashamed of himself for creating such a bane on the existence of his fellow citizens.
ReplyDeleteI would say your wrong but then again , opinions vary. Issues and the importance you give them is based upon your perspective and from where you sit in life.
DeleteMost importantly is the perspective the potential candidates have and as of right now , no one has heard anything except banter from the sidelines !
All I can see is garbage from Defruscio trying to get his cousin elected so he can further run the Town into the ground and make sure his people are back on the "Town Teet" ! God help us all if Cherubino and Dimartino get elected.
To be fair....we haven't heard one thing from the Dem side either, have we? Seems as though both sides are going to try their best not to say anything of substance.
DeleteDear 1025 AM,
ReplyDeleteThat's why Mr. Defruscio's inaction is so frustrating.
It is not in the Dems. interest to offer an alternative. The Dems. are quite happy with the status quo, they already have the majority, tacitly supported by Supervisor Langley.
The mission of Chris Defruscio, as Chair of the Rep. Committee should be to develop an issue based party platform that clearly articulates how the Reps. plan to change Town Government for the benefit of ALL the residents of East Greenbush and not just a connected few.
Clearly Mr. Defruscio is not capable of publicly rolling out the elements of such a plan.
And that's a shame ...
In addition to a financial recovery plan (which we desperately need) I think someone should be developing an administrative plan to implement the findings of the two audits and the bond rating review done by Moody's. These analyses of how our town manages and administers the money entrusted to it by hard-working, overburdened taxpayers yielded some frightening results. We need a more efficient town government to maximize the effects of a sound plan for financial recovery. Both a financial recovery plan and an administrative plan are complex undertakings which should be well under way by now if they are to be implemented any time soon. I'm less interested in where these plans originate than in what they contain. The supervisor, the town board, the candidates, the financial advisory committee, and interested citizens should all be thinking about this and putting forth proposals although at the moment the silence from all quarters is deafening.
ReplyDeleteYou're right on the money Jack. Failing any policy/program alternatives from the Republicans, the only logical alternative is the development of a third party movement. It's really tragic that the Reps don't appear to be able to mount an opposition. And I'm beginning to believe that the Troy Establishment is running things, and least for the Reps, and maybe for the Dems. Public education will take a while, but it's possible. So far, we're getting screwed by both parties. And they're laughing all the way to the patronage/nepotism/tax-increase/pension-padding bank.
ReplyDeleteWe need some public officials with some intelligence, character and guts.
Jack, there are taxpayers in our town who, in their work, have managed business turnarounds of all sizes.
ReplyDeleteThe principles of spending less have just never registered in our town. Moody's pointed that out very strongly.
The majority of O'Brien, Mangold and Malone have been adding new positions like crazy. Not an accidental choice of words, by the way. Adding position after position given the town's fiscal situation is irresponsible. I am also 100% confident we violated the savings provisions of the early retirement law - which taxpayers funded to the tune of $500,000.
The CFAC under the political leadership of Pete Stenson is, sadly, dysfunctional. But the blame lies equally with the Supervisor and the rest of the Town Board.
You have been a strong advocate for a functional citizens group to provide budgetary direction. Interestingly you have been joined, in a rare but very nice non partisan statement, by a couple of Republicans. And, just like with the ethics code, you have completely and totally ignored by what passes for leadership around here.
Has Supervisor Langley been able to take any time out of his busy schedule to make his appointments to the CFAC or the Ethics Board yet?
ReplyDeleteA couple of weeks ago, I met Joseph Persico at a book-signing for his new book "Roosevelt's Centurions." It's an interesting read. Early on in the narrative, there was a quote from FDR that caught my eye from the 1932 campaign before the Commonwealth Club in San Francisco:
ReplyDelete"Government includes the art of formulating a policy, and using the political technique to attain so much of that policy as will receive general support;...the greatest duty of the statesman is to educate."
I don't pretend to equate local government with the complexities of national government, but the function of leadership in each, I would argue, is the same. It's the formulation, articulation and execution of policy. It's having an understandable and articulated program for the advancement of the quality of life for all the people who supposedly pay for that program. I was happy to run across something from FDR which says much the same thing as the POST at the top of this thread.
(By the way......take a look at the link at the upper right about a municipality in Rockland County and see if you notice anything which might sound familiar.)
To 7:17 PM
ReplyDeleteIn reference to your last paragraph...
There is still no Campaign Financial Disclosure filing on the NYS Board of Elections website www.elections.ny.gov by Republican Chairman Chris DeFruscio and the Town of East Greenbush Republican Committee.
The legal deadline for filing was July 15, 2013.
Chris DeFruscio hasn't filed an activity statement with the Board of Elections since January, 2012.
So much for transparency and financial prudence from Chris DeFruscio.
Why won't Chris file the required information?
This just in. The Moreland Commission appointed by Governor Cuomo today placed a "freeze on the State Board of Elections records."
DeleteStay tuned...
Is Chris DeDruscio STILL the Republican Chairman?
ReplyDeleteWe can only hope not. But apparently the Republican party in EG is running around with blinders on - still !
DeleteLast night's town board meeting was quick and quiet; the meeting ended at 7:50 p.m. It began with the swearing-in of new police officer Sean Markham. Chief Lavin reminded Officer Markham that the badge was not only a symbol of power and responsibility but an implied public trust that he must honor and maintain. The Chief's remarks were right on the mark.
ReplyDeleteThe Supervisor announced that the two public comment periods experiment really hasn't worked so last night we went back to the single public comment period at the start of the meeting. Bonnie Lester read a letter she wrote to Sue Mangold about the geese problem at Hampton Manor Lake. She thanked Sue for paying attention to this issue but stressed that something has to be done about the overpopulation of geese. She also lamented the state of the playground in the park, a point I supported in my comments after criticizing the failure to put the agenda on the website before the meeting and reiterating my position that we need a code of ethics. Tom Grant thanked Sue Mangold for pushing the 911 dispatch issue with the county.
The board approved minutes for last month's meeting and for four special meetings (5/22,5/29/6/26 and 7/11).
The board certified the base percentages, current percentages, current base proportions and adjusted base proportions for the class equalization rates. I can't even pretend to understand this but it seems to be pro forma and is done every year.
Gorman-Rupp Company of Mansfield Ohio was authorized as the sole source to procure new sewage pump stations.
Tax certiorari cases were resolved in favor of Tittertin Properties LLC/Evergreen Commons (assessment reduced by $918,000) and Target (assessment reduced by $706,300).
Payments made by the Comptroller were approved by the board. Wojeski has urged the town board to continue to approve these payments until the comptroller and purchasing agent are different people and a segregation of duties has been achieved.
Creighton Manning Engineering got a contract not to exceed $460,000 for work to be done on the Mannix Road roundabout.
DPW will install a 'Children at Play' sign on Willow Street.
Lewis Debuque was appointed an alternate member of the planning board for the rest of 2013.
Andrea Hancock and Robert Fish were appointed part-time police dispatchers. Ginny O'Brien said the appointment of part-time dispatchers saves the town benefits, pension etc.
A special meeting was scheduled for July 23 at 11:00 a.m. to conduct interviews for purchasing agent. There are six candidates.
A final funny footnote for me was that as I was driving home I had to wait for the geese to cross Hampton Avenue before heading up the hill. Go get 'em Bonnie.
Jack,
DeleteDoes this mean the public is once again allowed to pose questions to the Board as they were during the Rick McCabe era?
The public can pose all the questions they want within a 5 minute time limit. Just don't expect any answers from Mr. Langley.
DeleteThanks for the post Jack,
DeleteLet's play a game of follow the money--- Keep an eye on the Board of Elections financial disclosure filings over the next few months to see how much money is "given" to the EG Dems and Reps/Smart Way Forward and their candidates for the Town Board by the Gorman-Rupp company, Tittertin Properties LLC/Evergreen Commons and Creighton Manning Engineering.
The name of the game??--- How 'bout, Those that give, get??
One other thing I forgot. After the meeting Meaghan Hart apologized to me for not having the agenda on the website. She thought she had put it up and was surprised it wasn't there. She thinks she missed the last step in posting it. Anyone who pays attention to what goes on in Town Hall knows that Meaghan has been a tremendous addition to the staff. She is smart, works hard and is learning more every day so I'm willing to bet this won't happen again now that it's been brought to her attention. I appreciated her willingness to accept to be accountable.
ReplyDeleteI'm glad to hear Meaghan Hart was willing to be held accountable. I'm still waiting for her boss, Supervisor Langley to express his willingness to be held accountable for his failure to propose a financial recovery plan and demonstrate an ability to lead our Town.
ReplyDelete"Lewis Debuque was appointed an alternate member of the planning board for the rest of 2013." Isn't that Ginny O'Brien's son-in-law? Getting him appointed right before she moves out of this Town. If she does move prior to January, she will no longer be able to serve on the Board, correct or no?
ReplyDeleteDear 1:03 PM,
ReplyDeleteMr. Debuque is Ms. O'Brien's son-in-law. He is a very competent appointment. Keith Langley was happy to vote for him as were Mr. Matters, Mr. Malone and Ms. Mangold. Ms. O'Brien rightfully abstained. The vote was 4 in favor 0 against and 1 abstained.
Keith Langley is a wonderful Supervisor.
There was no mention of a change in the format of the one public comment period. I assume there are still no questions allowed. Ginny O'Brien abstained on the Lewis Debuque vote and his term is only from now until the end of this year so if she was just trying to take care of a relative she could have done a better job. He is only an alternate member in any event.
ReplyDeleteI hate to say this, BUT, the latest thread on the "Talks" Blog regarding a May 20, 2013 report by the Office of the New York State Inspector General is certainly an attention grabber that might explain why certain members of the EG Reps are not very interested in governmental transparency and an updated EG Code of Ethics.
ReplyDeleteLest anybody in either Party get too "uppity" about the "baggage" of their opponents, let me remind everybody that the Dems canned an Ethics Code over provisions related to financial disclosure and nepotism.
ReplyDeleteMr. Langley has at his disposal as Supervisor, the resources to cause a sea change in the way governing is done around here. And the effect would be profound and last a very long time. It would enable public officials to do their jobs in a no-nonsense atmosphere with significant benefit to taxpayers. He's either unaware or afraid to use that authority.
Dear 4:)% PM
ReplyDeleteAgreed! Still don't understand why Langley even ran for Supervisor if he won't lead. Too bad for us.
Dear 1:20 PM
ReplyDeleteThis is yet another issue where Supervisor Langley, acting in his capacity as the Town's CFO, should be taking the lead.
Instead Mr. Langley has chosen to ignore this issue, opting instead to propose and impose a tax increase on the taxpayers of East Greenbush.
I wonder what sort of "retirement incentive" Mr. Langley is planning on for himself, starting in January, 2016?
Here's a message from two "patrons" of Dems - Andrea Mitchel and David Axelrod - a significant contributor to the bankruptcy of Detroit and the threat to Chicago is the irresponsible parceling out of public pensions over the last 20 years. Isn't that what we are doing in East Greenbush? The Board passed a "retirement incentive" costing taxpayers $500,000 allegedly to save on salary and benefit costs. This was supposed to produce documented savings. We haven't seen the "documentation" because there isn't any. And the majority has kept on adding positions. It's not going to stop until the taxpayers take charge and remove the irresponsible "politicians."
ReplyDeletethe documented savings were to be reported to the retirement system and not necessarily to the townsfolk.
Deleteif you've not done so, foil the reports.
You would have eventually gotten retirement incentives if you could hold a real job
ReplyDeleteHere you have it again, boys and girls......instead of a substantive engagement on an important issue, a denizen of the Dem/Rep swamp attempts to avoid an important issue with a pointless personal crack. They haven't figured out that it's OVER. Eventually, the crooks will be gone.
DeleteI don't understand why people feel the need to bash people? Does it make you feel BIG to put someone else down? And wow you can do it anonymously, OMG you are the BIG person.
ReplyDeleteJim_C - I share your frustration at the anonymous bashing of people on blogs. I used to think there was no reason to post anonymously about anything but I have mellowed a bit. I still think it's wrong to post anonymously if you are going to use someone else's name. If you want to comment on a policy or program then it's not that important but if you use someone else's name it's pretty lame not to use your own. People on East Greenbush blogs like to say they post anonymously because of a fear of retribution but I don't buy it. There's no excuse for malicious personal attacks posted anonymously. Call it a lack of courage or small people playing small games but it achieves nothing productive and just adds to the bitterness in local politics.
ReplyDeleteHas anyone heard from Chris Defruscio about any Republican plans for the upcoming Town Board elections? Has Chairman Defruscio rolled out any issues that his candidates plan to highlight in their (his) campaigns for them?
ReplyDeleteJack, it is hard to fathom that the bitterness in EG politics could get any worse. Voters are slowly but surely learning that both political parties are nothing more than legalized thieves.
ReplyDeleteTaxpayer money is squandered on family and friends and to hell with what is best for the town and its citizens. That's what drives the bitterness FAR more than some person blogging without using their name.
And despite your Pollyann-ish view retaliation does happen. What else would you expect from our politicians? Do you think people's jobs and bosses got called for socializying purposes? Get real, Jack.
Anonymous 5:47: You give these people too much power and they use your fear of them to do what they want. They can call anyone's workplace they want and what are they going to say? That you were a bad boy? Or girl? But above all else, if you have something to lose then keep your bitterness to yourself and take your medicine. It doesn't change my basic point: if you are spewing nastiness at a named individual and are hiding behind anonymity you have yielded the moral high ground to someone you don't like and no matter how clever you think you have been you have lost the argument. I respect that others see this issue differently but I believe that if you have something to say, stand up, say it, and then stand behind it. Take responsibility for your actions. It's ironic that you use the phrase 'get real' to defend anonymity, the act of not being real. Seems like a contradiction to me.
ReplyDeleteMr. Conway:
DeleteThree words, "The Federalist Papers"
And Jack, those calls to peoples' jobs, bosses and clients are ongoing and aren't limited to Democratic operatives. Both parties are looking to hang on to their self dealing gravy trains by any means possible.
ReplyDeletePhilo-Publius - Three words 'The eighteenth century."
ReplyDeleteJack, you and I have the luxury of being somewhat immune from the threats available to those who would use them on those employed in some of the "systems" in the capital district. I'm retired and you're "self-employed." It pains me to say that I know personally of individuals whose livelihood has been directly threatened if they don't shut up on goings-on in East Greenbush. The perps involved in these threats will eventually be exposed, and I'll take great pleasure helping to expose them. But it can't be done now for the sake of groceries. You might be surprised about who is doing the threatening. They should be ashamed of themselves. One of the reasons we need a perp-walk around here.
ReplyDeleteOkay, I am going to tell you that I am one of those people whose jobs were called. An anonymous person called the corporate headquarters of where I used to work. Based on my political affiliation I am confident the anonymous caller was a democratic party thug or operative. That person eventually got connected to human resources. The anonymous caller told human resources that I was doing non company related work on the clock and was using the company's computer and e-mail for political purposes.
ReplyDeleteNothing more happened to me but that call was made and investigated by my employer.
Mr. Conway: we are surrounded by politicians of the rankest kind as well as those who benefit from their dirty dealings. I think you know that. Our politicians, their families and friends are at the very lowest levels of evil. I think you know that, too. And that's what I think the "Get real" comment was all about.
Giving or not giving these people power is pure bullshit. They enjoy the power of their office coupled to the ignorance and apathy of 95% of East Greenbush voters as well as the complete and utter lack of oversight from the state. I think you know that as well.
I think Gadfly hit it on the head. You have always seen the East Greenbush political world through rose colored glasses. But please do not belittle or be condesending towards people whose experiences and feelings are different than yours.
Anonymous 8:15 and Gadfly - I respect your comments but you are giving these people too much power. I don't think I'm looking through rose colored glasses - although I will admit I look for the good in people - it's just that I can't imagine a situation where any of these chicken shit people who you claim are intimidating people could not be countered by (a) the quality of the work that you do which would mean more to any employer than phone calls from strangers; and (b)ignoring them completely which takes away all of this power you are giving them. I'll say it again, if you really have something to lose than keep your thoughts to yourself and take your medicine.
ReplyDeleteBut to hurl insulting comments at named individuals while you hide behind the cloak of anonymity is like a 15-year old kid writing the f-word on a bathroom wall. It is meaningless graffiti. If spewing hatred at people while you lurk in the shadows makes you feel better then you probably have more issues than the person you are insulting. I don't mean to be condescending but no one can enslave you without your permission. This is a free country and you always have means of redress if you are done wrong. Always.
I'm not denying the existence of dirty dealings on the part of local politicians. The political culture in this town is a cesspool that brings honor to virtually no one. But the anonymous name calling on the blogs is part of the problem, not part of the solution. Call me Pollyanna if you'd like but I'm not the one who's afraid of these lightweights.
Jack, the politicians in this town, specifically Phil Malone, created the gadfly label to describe people that asked he, Ginny and Sue uncomfortable questions. Speak about Phil in that context why don't you?
ReplyDeletePeople on the Talks blog have used the vilest degrading terms possible to describe Ann Taylor - and many, many others. I trust you have taken note of the fact that Ginny O'Brien and Sue Mangold, as supposedely responsible women, never expressed any objection to the gender phobic terms used to describe Ann Taylor. Write about that why don't you? Take Ginny and Sue to task for supporting the people who used those terms. Then come back and lecture the rest of us.
Hell, the Talks and DEMands blog administrators are anonymous although the speculation of who runs those blogs is probably pretty accurate.
Okay, so my job was called by an anonymous asshole. In your world of handling that what should I have done?
I don't deny for a single second that anonymous blog comments accomlish nothing other than to enable that blogger to vent. But when there is no way to ask and get answers to serious questions I can forgive those bloggers and allow them to vent their frustrations with the people that purport to run our town.
Unfortunately, for most of these wanna be power brokers, the quality of work doesn't matter. The only thing that matters is 100 percent adherence to the party line. Ninety five percent agreement isn't good enough for them. In fact, ANY questioning of the Party line is dealt with in a thuggish fashion. These type of operatives cannot tolerate ANY form of dissent or discussion. This blog serves a valuable purpose by allowing and encouraging the discussion of important issues.
ReplyDeleteIndeed, the tradition of anonymous debate dates back to the very beginnings of our great Nation in the eighteenth century.
Today, in East Greenbush, information is also being exchanged, people are talking, emailing and blogging with each other, sometimes anonymously. The old governmental ways of deliberately withholding information from the general public are being challenged by more and more people.
Significantly, one of the Town's major political insiders, Chris Defruscio, has consistently tried to discourage the rank and file members of his party from even reading this and any other blog except his own. As a result of his heavy handed actions, the number of viewings of this blog and I would imagine the Talks blog as well, has increased at a great rate.
Anonymous 7:25: You make an intelligent argument so let me try to respond in a similar tone. My entire point here was to condemn anonymous blogging when the blogger uses someone else's name and hides behind the cover of anonymity. How this can be construed as a defense of Phil Malone is utterly beyond me. When you say that Talks has been offensive to people like Ann Taylor go back and read what I have written on this blog about that specific situation. I used the words 'borderline sociopathology' to describe the gruesome attacks on Ann. And that's exactly my point. Have you ever seen one of those comments with a name attached to it? If you are going to name someone, be it Toni Murphy, Don Johnson, Chris DeFruscio or Phil Malone, and engage in nothing other than a personal attack, and you don't sign your real name then I think you are a sad person with fundamental issues who should seek help immediately. Your politics don't matter as much to me as your lack of civility and your need to spew hatred from a cowardly position. As I said in my original post here, if you are blogging anonymously about issues or policies - I don't like the Couse Corner roundabout, we should have gone with the county for wastewater treatment, etc - then I don't have a problem with it and much can be added to the public debate. But there is never an excuse for the name-calling. Feeling threatened at your job may be a reason for blogging anonymously but it is NOT an excuse for the vicious personal attacks and that was the point I was making.
ReplyDeleteOn the issue of asking important questions, the Gadflies have done a great job and I give them a lot of credit. One of the reasons I like writing on this blog is because there's a lot of substantive discussion and a healthy exchange of viewpoints. But go to a town board meeting and tell me that I've just accepted the status quo. I have a different personal style than most people but I have been banging away at the town board for years. But just as I tell them when I think they've done something wrong, I'm going to make my views clear when I think the bloggers are screwing up. That's what I've tried to do here.
Anonymous 7:36: I really wish people would stop waving the 18th century in my face because it's an incredibly lame argument. The authors of the federalist papers were technically guilty of treason and would have been beheaded if they revealed their identities. Those same authors believed in slavery, genocide against native peoples and that women should not vote or own property. Are those other proud traditions you support? And I will say it again and for the last time: I have no problem with 'anonymous debates' or the 'discussion of important issues' only with anonymous stone throwing. To compare the personal attacks on EG blogs to the federalist papers is like comparing the National Enquirer to the Bible.
Dear Jack,
DeletePlease allow me a gentle point of clarification...
The "Federalist Papers" as they are now called, were published primarily in the fall of 1787 and spring/summer of 1788, approximately five years after the official conclusion of the American Revolution and during the period when our Nation was governed under the Articles of Confederation. Hamilton, Madison and Jay wrote the papers primarily in support of a vote by the individual States to ratify what later became the United States Constitution. Thankfully, they were never (at least during that time period) guilty of treason or at risk of being beheaded if they revealed their identities.
They advocated for the ratification of the Constitution through discussion, debate and deliberation, rather than by force or intimidation... much like the Gadfly has advocated for reform in modern day East Greenbush.
Jack, you are a very good man with wonderful intentions. Your work on the Ethics Board and on the ethics code was superlative - beyond that really.
ReplyDeleteYou are also a skilled politician - in a complimentary way.
You are a bit more of an idealist that I might wish for but that is merely a point of insigificant difference between us.
You accept or tolerate mediocrity, incompetence, corruption, abuse of power and a whole lot of things that go on in our little town more than I am at all comfortable with. But I also have the utmost respect and admiration for you.
You would make an outstanding supervisor or town board member. I think your values, beliefs and principles are wonderful.
BUT...you have also not been able to influence positive change. That's a regretable reality. Your values, beliefs and principles are not shared by the politicians and their party chairmen. That's not much of a stretch because the town's politicians, with the single exception of Rick Matters, have no principles, no honor, no values, no decency, no nothing except their own evilness to guide them. And like someone else said: You know that.
Your points about blogging are well written, and for me, well taken. But I also share the complete frustration experienced by people who care but are stymied by the politican machines and the lack of state oversight. In another day and time a revolution might result.
The only thing that has resulted in any positive change around our town has been exposure of corruption through FOILs and citizen activism. And every bit of that has been driven by the key people in the Gadfly organization.
Anonymous 11:30: Thanks for the kind words. I accept the merit of some of your critical comments although I don't accept or tolerate corruption. I share the frustrations of people who want to see radical change in the way our town is governed but I take a longer view of how the political process works. It's too early to say whether I've influenced positive change or not. I think we'll have a new Code of Ethics by April or May so I wouldn't give up on that yet. I also think we're one major breakthrough away from loosening the grip of the machines on our town. Whether that breakthrough comes in the form of an election deadlock, a third party, or someone getting caught with their hand in the till only time will tell. East Greenbush politics can't live in the 20th century forever.
ReplyDeleteCitizen activism has been the prime agent of change so far but I believe that those citizens could have overturned the entire system by now if they had approached things in a different way. The thing about our town is that there are so many good things happening and all we need to do is straighten out the political system which would result in much lower taxes that would really get this place rocking again but too many of the citizens fighting for change have lost sight of the positive and have harped so consistently on the negative that they've allowed themselves to be marginalized as bitter or alienated people with a personal grudge. Somebody has to bring the sharp edge of the critique while retaining a sense that this is a nice place to live or they won't be heard. That's why I rail against mud slinging on blogs and try to encourage civility in the way we treat each other when we're talking politics. Constantly bringing negative energy into the political debate plays right into the hands of the machines and helps them divide and conquer our town. I'm not mad at anyone, I just want change. If that makes me naïve or ineffective, so be it. If I'm going down, I'm going down smiling not swinging. Life has been far too good to me to see it any other way.
Jack....the only people who consider the Gadflys to be marginalized and alienated are those who got caught with their hands in the cookie jar. It's called "rationalization." These are the folks who continue to take the anonymous personal shots on Talks and other venues. What we all found has been corroborated by the Office of the State Comptroller, the bond rating agencies and even UHY. In fact, OSC found even more than we accomplished through FOIL. I think it's a bit early for "come let us reason together." Until the machines are discredited, they will hang on to power. That's why all the stops come out when an oversight agency arrives at Town Hall. It will be interesting to watch the change in dynamics now that Mr. C. is gone and The Mayor is retiring.
ReplyDeleteRight now, I'd guess that some folks are hoping that the statute of limitations runs out soon.
Jack, I admire your position of being free from the fear of retribution. I am a person who has been spoken to at work because the political activity of an associate offended an elected official in East Greenbush and that official called my boss and asked that I "get my associate in line". An associate of mine has been shouted at and harassed in public by a political operative because of an assumption that I took a certain action. In this economic climate no one wants to take the risk of being perceived as a negative person or a social liability in the workplace or in the community. It is, indeed, unfortunate that East Greenbush politics (both sides of the isle) goes immediately to personal attacks and killing the messenger but it is very true.
ReplyDeleteI understand that not signing my name reduces the creditability of my statements but I also firmly believe that some of my unsigned statements have made a serious difference. While I admire the outspoken few who are able to use their names, I will, for now, not take the risk.
By the way, I would like to be clear, I am not a public figure and I have been insulted for no reason on Talks. I only post on Gadfly. I do not ever post personal attacks.
Anonymous 1:03: I appreciate your post and know that there are others who have felt threatened at their place of employment but here's why I brought the issue up in the first place. Every time I speak out against the garbage being spewed by anonymous bloggers (not all anonymous blogs are garbage but the personal attacks are) I am told people blog anonymously out of fear for their jobs. Most anonymous posts have nothing to do with intimidation but since that is a reasonable defense people jump on it to counteract my criticism. In your case, I accept it and I know it has happened to others, but those cases have nothing to do with the vicious personal attacks where a named individual is slaughtered by somebody who likes to see others defamed but doesn't have the courage to use his or her own name. I assume that many of these people are parents and I wonder if these are the values they teach their children: be hateful, run and hide when things get tough, never accept responsibility for your actions, engage in anti-social behavior as long as you can get away with it. Somehow I doubt it so I wonder why it's okay to treat your neighbors that way.
ReplyDeleteJack,
ReplyDeleteI have always enjoyed your posts. They are invariably thoughtful and reasoned. In your 3:49pm post, your first sentence includes a line about "...others who have FELT threatened..."
Unfortunately, in three cases of which I have personal knowledge, (four, counting myself) these employees and their colleagues WERE DIRECTLY threatened with the loss of their employment or other business relationships if they didn't "get with the program", or "shut the F#&k up" or "stop asking questions".
There are people, closely associated with the Town of East Greenbush and Rensselaer County, who take great enjoyment from making these threats to the livelihoods of people who have raised legitimate questions and concerns under their own names.
Fortunately, some of these people, rather than abandoning their concerns, questions and cherished beliefs, have now chosen to blog on these issues anonymously. I give them a great deal of credit for continuing to speak out despite the personal threats they have received. They also continue to respectfully raise concerns regarding the motives behind the actions of governmental and political leaders.
IMHO, the Gadfly does an excellent job of moderating the comments that appear on this Blog.
I hope these anonymous bloggers continue to RESPECTFULLY engage in the public discourse.
Okay, Jack. We disagree. Let us move forward from this issue and get on to the primary issues in this Town: Ethics and Open Government. Anonymous or named is not as important as trying to determine how each candidate will address these issues. The time is now.
ReplyDeleteRespectfully yours,
Anon 1:03
Anon 5:13: 'Respectfully' is the key word. I have no problem with people raising any issues that matter to them. But if there's no substance just hatred, count me out. By fighting against hate speech I have no interest in justifying or supporting the crap that passes for politics in this town. A lot of people in power have behaved badly but calling them names is playing their game. It's time for change. In government, in politics and in the way we treat each other.
ReplyDeleteAnon 1:03: It's a deal.
Jack,
ReplyDeleteAgreed!
Jack, it seems you and I see eye to eye on the anonymous blogging. I too do not have a problem with people blogging anonymously, but what I do have a problem with is the personal attacks when people are anonymous. I can sympathize with people remaining anonymous because I have been on the side of getting hurt by people who only care about one thing, their power, but if you want to remain anonymous that doesn't give you free reign to bash people.
ReplyDeleteWe as people have a right to question government, and we should take every opportunity to do so, but we shouldn't have to fear retribution from our government for doing so.
Thomas Jefferson:
ReplyDelete"When the people fear the government there is tyranny. When the government fears the people there is liberty".
Which do you think we have more of in East Greenbush?
I dedicate this quote from Dr. Martin Luther King to Keith Langley and his relentless excuses because he only has a minority on the town board:
ReplyDelete"Almost always the creative, dedicated minority has made the world better."
The key words, Supervisor Langley, are "creative" and dedicated".
I believe Mr. Jefferson's words are indeed factual. The political balance in East Greenbush is tilted toward the extreme abyss. Five elected officials have taken an oath, to do to the best of their abilities, make decisions that benefit the whole town, and none that would benefit themselves, family and friends. Does the public record prove this to be true? I am very concerned, that those who have taken us to the financial abyss, and those by association, refuse to accept the ethics code drafted by Jack C. and the other committee members. Sometimes it takes a heavy hand to control the hammer. Just something to think about. Bonnie L.
ReplyDeletelots of allegations about 'power brokers' calling bosses to complain about their employees ... bufred flintstonet no specifics. imagine the conversations
ReplyDeletecaller: "hi, i'm barney rubble of the east greenbush (fill in the blank) and i'm calling to complain about comments fred flintstone has been making ... either make him stop or fire him or you'll our full wrath"
corporate boss: "really? seriously? east where? are you the guys hiding Ed Snowden? where'd ya say you're from?"
get real folks ... who in eg can has that kind of pull or power?
It goes like this: hi, i am (elected official) in EG where you conduct your customer dependent business (or, more often where you get your permits or seek contracts). Then a little story about how we will all remain such great friends if only your cranky and misguided employee would stop (asking questions, requesting an ethics law, ect.). This would be followed by example of "after all we've all known eachother a long time and, trust me, there is no wrongdoing to be found". There are a lot of variations but but it is clubby, nasty, and hard to overcome.
ReplyDeleteThat is why I am anon 1:03
9:36 PM
DeleteYou nailed it. That's also how it also works at the county. Although there they don't have the "elected" officials make the calls.
Seriously you flys are not that sharp, no knowledge on how anything works, I'm glad Bonnie finally got her doctorate in political science, must be where you got your Theology degree. Abyss University. Just an opinion boys and girls
DeleteRight. The calls come from whomever can "get to" the boss of the person who spoke up. The carrot can be "we will open accounts, get more clients, support your election in the future, 'look out' for permit applications, 'guide' your project applications," and so on.
DeleteWhen caught, these folks think they can hide behind the veil of "just chatting with a friend, business associate, former student" and so on.
Many bosses might not fire the employee or even speak to them but the jerks who make these calls are then plotting to discredit a person and put their lively hood in jeopardy for merely asserting their rights as a citizen.
The Gadfly gives an opportunity to have a say in local government without fear of damaging our careers. Rock on Gadfly, rock on.
I hate to say this BUT, there is a very important post over on the Talks blog regarding the case of "Matters v. Estes", which was decided by Senior Federal Judge Thomas J. McAvoy on May, 31, 2013.
ReplyDeleteThis case has had a direct impact on East Greenbush Town and County Republican Politics.
I just finished reading Judge McAvoy's well written decision, it is very informative and quite disturbing, as it shines a strong light on what passes for government and politics in East Greenbush.
By the way, Judge McAvoy was appointed to the Federal Bench by President Ronald Reagan.
NO politician or political candidate is immune....not a single one !
DeleteIt is unclear to me when the practice of calling a politcal figure's place of work first began in East Greenbush.
ReplyDeleteGinny O'Brien's husband, Mike, was allegedely fired from his state job for campaigning on Ginny's behalf while on the job when she ran for state senate against Joe Bruno.
Phil Malone left his former state job under very hush hush circmstances. Kind of like his so called law school attendance.
Kim Halloran has always been alleged to be behind most of the dirty politics around here when she was the democratic party chair. She was the plaintiff in the lawsuit that resulted in Danaher and Cristo leaving the town board.
We heard very specific allegations from Ann Taylor about former supervisor, Rick McCabe calling her boss. McCabe's explanations for those calls were, in a word, lame.
Rich Hendricks had to withdraw his candidacy when republican party operative ratted him out to his job.
Rick Matters had his own experiences.
So, playing dirty tricks with people's jobs is a bi-partisan piece of pure shit that dominates our otherwise fine little town.
Nice people seeking to rule us huh?
Here's my question...
What is there about a part time job for little pay in a small town that makes these town board jobs so coveted and makes the stakes so high that people would do these dastardly deeds to get these jobs?
I think the answer has to lie in the corruption that is so inherent to our town. I think it has to be, in part, the ability to give taxpayers' hard earned money to your family and friends.
And every stinking bit of it is pure evil. Halloran, Malone and DeFruscio all own a piece of it. They are all evil, nasty, rotten people. Every stinking one of them.
Sorry Jack, anonymous. Deal with it.
I disagree with much of what you said in your list above. I was talking about innocent people who blog being maligned for raising questions. I think public employee who is doing the wrong thing should be brought to the attention of the appointing authority and subjected to the appropriate disciplinary sanction. Let me go through your list:
DeleteMike O'Brien was fired for campaigning on state time and using state materials to do so. This is a was wrong and the state agency, not EG pols, dealt with this bad act.
I don't know anything for sure about Mr. Malone's job but there is nothing about phone calls in the many rumors I have heard.
Kim Halloran is free to offer a lawsuit. It is her right as a citizen. Her lawsuit was successful. That is our system of government. I have not heard anything about her calling a person's job so, unless you can be specific, I can't address your allegations.
The Ann Taylor situation is the only example of an innocent party being maligned for no reason by a political wrong-doer. The horrible things said about her had nothing to do with any job or political performance. Ms. Taylor did not violate any rules or regulations.
Rich Hendrick is the CFO of an agency overseeing our Federal Government dollars.
Anytime Federal dollars are given in the form of a grant, there are clear, published guidelines for the administration of the grant. The Federal Government agency in charge of overseeing Federal Grants found Mr. Hendricks to be in violation of the Hatch Act if he were to run. No rats, no phone calls, folks. It was the finding of the Federal Government.
The Rick Matters case at hand is the finding of a Federal judge. His earlier case also was a finding of the appropriate authority.
I would like to make the point that if you are doing the wrong thing and you get caught
the circumstances surrounding how you got caught are not very relevant. I want the those who are exercise their constitutional rights and are innocent of wrongdoing to be protected from baseless phone calls.
i bet these dastardly deeds go on in any small town, village or school board elections
ReplyDeletecorruption is on the way out in our town just takes a little time
Dear 1:15 PM
ReplyDeleteIt breaks my heart to see Rick Matters' name on this list.
Who is campaigning to be the write in candidates for the County on the Cons, Ind, and WF? The party endorsed candidates were on the petitions. Who is opposing them? EG's Mangold, NG's Zweig and who else?
ReplyDeleteDave
8:44 AM I haven't heard who the Cons. Ind. and WF. County candidates are. The Rep. Party Candidates endorsed by current Town Rep. Chairman Chris DeFruscio on the petitions for EG Town Board were his cousin, Randolph Cherubino and Keith Langley's High School Classmate, Deberah DiMartino.
ReplyDeleteAlthough I've heard that might have changed.
Anon 9:53
ReplyDeleteMy question said County.
Dave in NG
possibly
ReplyDeleteTown Board (2 seats)
Dems – Mike Botillo
Reps – Debbie DiMartino
County Legislature (4 seats)
Dems - Brian Zweig, Sue Mangold, Andrea Smyth
Reps - Phil Danaher, Kelly Hoffman, Leon Fiacco
Anon. 9:53, I'm not sure how to take your comment about Deb. DiMartino. You said she was a classmate of Keith Langley. Does that bother you, or was it information you felt needed to be share with us? You could eliminate a lot of people from running for town board, if the criteria was not going to high school with a town employee. I may be wrong, but it came across that way.
ReplyDeleteIt means nothing to me if any candidates went to high school with a standing board member or any other town employee. I'm interested in what they say, and how they are going to back it up. I'll start with their standings on implementing the original Ethics Code, drafted under the leadership of Jack Conway.
I'm really not too encouraged about the slate for Town offices - except for the candidacy of Ms. Matters. The fact is that Rick Matters got screwed. The Judge made an illogical leap which he shouldn't have. Rick made his reimbursement, but the Judge concluded that no lesson was learned. The facts don't support that conclusion. Maybe that Federal Judge should look at some "time and attendance" records in this Town, along with phone use and internet access. In this connection, if the Supervisor had any lead in his pencil, he'd have the Town IT guy put come clamps on computer use and start monitoring the phones like the Thruway Authority did with Rick.
ReplyDeleteWhat this Town needs is a forensic audit. We won't have an honest government until both established parties are NOT in power.
Dear Gideon,
ReplyDeleteI'd also like to be encouraged by the candidacy of Ms. Matters. However, I am very concerned about her political relationship with Chris DeFruscio.
The last thing we need is another DeFruscio backed candidate like current Supervisor Keith Langley.
I will watching very carefully to see of Ms. Matters is able to publicly disassociate herself from the do nothing policies of Keith Langley and his political boss, Chris DeFruscio.
My mantra this election cycle is: "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."
Not to worry Anonymous. I got an e-mail from Ms. Matters and she assures me that her's will be an issue based campaign. I think it's great that she will be talking about ideas and policy. It will make the lack of such activity apparent in the others, should they decide not to engage on ideas and policy. She just may be able to back DeFruscio into a corner on his apparent policy of "no comment."
ReplyDeleteWe're going to win this Town yet. It may take a while, but those who want to continue the "machine" modality are in for a long hard time. It's over. This is the 21st century. Bye bye, Maney, Malone, DeFruscio, Jennings, Canestrari, Bruno, DiNapoli, Cuomo......
What happened to DiMartino and Cherubino? I thought they were Town Republican Chairman Chris DeFruscio's handpicked candidates for EG Town Board. Did one of them move out of EG to a place where they won't have to pay the high taxes proposed by Supervisor Langley? Or did they move to a Town that has a financial recovery plan? Or did they move to a place that has an ethics code more current than the one in EG that dates back to pre-internet 1974?
DeleteWho's place did Ms. Matters take and why?
I'm so pleased that Mangold is on the County slate. Maybe we can "elect" her out of here and get an Ethics code passed. She can do less harm at the County. The thing to watch is if the Town Board majority moves to rescind "Ginny's Law" to allow two hat double dipping. If that happens, it's time for a revolution. It would display the final straw in the corruption of local politics. Would be time to really call the cops.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous at 10:11......You need to learn to type better. What you sent makes no sense. I let you guys post stuff on this blog. The least you could do for all of us us to stop sniffing or smoking before your post.
ReplyDeleteDear Gadfly,
ReplyDeleteSorry to have missed the Anonymous at 10:11 post. That must have been a good one. Do you think it could have been composed "in the truck?"
Donnie boy Your Statue of Limitations is almost up
ReplyDelete9:09 AM
ReplyDeleteWhat the heck does that mean? Can you provide more details and a fact or two?
You come across like the people on Talks who allege that DeFruscio did this, that, and the next thing but they refuse to provide a single fact.
Oh wait...maybe you are referring to the ever soon to come slander lawsuit from our former supervisor. Is that what you are referring to?
Or, are you simply another mindless troll and part of the corrupt political machine (of either political party by the way) that has screwed up our otherwise nice town?
I think the mindless troll (who can't spell, by the way) is referring to the Statute of Limitations on Larceny which would relate to the stipends.
ReplyDeleteGadfky:
ReplyDeleteHow nice to know. Doesn't feel so good to every taxpayer that the people who created and perpetuated the illegal stipend disbursements to family and friends are actually counting the days to when the statute of limitations expires?
Unfortunately, the stupidity of how our town is governed goes right on - regardless of political party.
If there is a write in candidate or candidates in November's town board election that person or persons will get my vote. Otherwise I am going to write in some people I know would be wonderful candidates. And NONE of those possible write in candidates are connected to our local political thugs - Malone and Defruscio.
Aug 2 at 2:39 PM-any suggestions?
ReplyDelete11:39
ReplyDeleteYea, lots. But I am not going to provide names. There are already more than enough personal cheap shots around our town. I refuse to give the Talks and DEMands bloggers any fodder for their mindless and evil comments by listing anyone's name as a possible write in candidate.
To change the way our town does business means a wholesale change in the political system.
It means the elimination of nepotism and patronage as the sole criteria for hiring people.
It means spending taxpayers' hard earned money as though it were your own.
It means following the law - all laws - even the inconvenient ones.
It means respecting our environment.
It means being open, honest, truthful and transparent.
It means accounting for taxpayers' money and, therefore, it means doing a real, deep and meaningful forensic audit to uncover just how far and wide the corruption really runs in our town.
And, it means being ethical. Really and truly ethical.
There are a handful of people who meet each and every one of these criteria. And you, and everyone else, probably already know exactly who these people are.
They show up at meetings, they speak out against the status quo, they file FOILs. They write and inform all citizens of what goes on around here.
These are the people who deserve our support. They are not doing these things to get some flunky relative or friend on the town's payroll. They have a different motivation - to simply do what is right. And the politicians and their supporter depise them for that.
I would like to wish Mike Botillo good luck in the upcoming election. With Sue Mangold running for county legislature a big void could become apparent on our town board if she should win. Mike Botillo is Brian Harts brother in law. As you know the Hart family spends a great deal of money to help our town from falling into a state of urban blight. Having the Hart family maintaining their presence on the town board keeps them moving forward. Who knows if Ms. Mangold should lose her run for county legislature, and Mike Botillo wins his town board seat we would have two members of the Hart family on the board at the same time. With the Hart family in control of the town board, Hart Engineering doing all the towns engineering work, and Brian Hart buying up all the property our town will begin to turn around and move forward. There may be light at the end of the tunnel after all.
ReplyDeleteI wonder if this means that the Dems want to perpetuate the moratorium on a new Ethics Code.
DeleteDear 7:42 AM
DeleteSounds good to me. Might be worth giving it a try. Maybe Supervisor Langley would then be hesitant to propose another one of his Tax increases and might also be convinced to implement a business and taxpayer friendly work management plan, including an updating of the civil service classification job descriptions for non-union Town employees.
Of course a "slight" problem would be any Hart family members would have to abstain on any votes involving the Hart family multitude of companies and their many overlapping busines interests.
DeleteIt has long been my understanding that Sue Mangold shot down the ethics code to avoid having to share with the public just how deep she is personally involved in the Hart family businesses. Revealing her financial interests would expose just how deep, and serious, her conflicts of interest really are.
I am all for the Hart's making money - but the good old fashioned way - through brains and hard work. Making money by using family members to slip slide around any inconveniences like what might be good for all the rest of East Greenbush's taxpayers should not be a part of their business model.
But...we have had "Maney-ville" and these days we are seeing young Phil going for "Malone-ville" so maybe "Hart-ville" is only to be expexted. God help us all.
A general question for Jack Conway:
DeleteDear Jack,
Generally speaking, in your (non-binding) opinion...
Would a sitting Town Board member, the in law of a person bidding for, or already providing contracted services to the Town (and who does not live or work with, or receive significant financial support from that in law) be required to disclose that relationship under the updated ethics code, as proposed by the East Greenbush Ethics Board?
Be well,
Tom
I also wonder if current Town Rep. Chairman Chris DeFruscio also wants to perpetuate the moratorium on a new Ethics Code. I also wonder if current Town Rep. Chairman Chris DeFruscio also wants to prevent the establishment of a Financial Recovery Plan.
ReplyDeleteYou see, in this Town, there is really no policy difference between the current Dem and Rep leadership.
It looks like this election boils down to a choice between the DeFruscio/Cherubino group and the Harts.
Which group is best equipped to oversee the Town for the next two years...?
That is the "choice" facing EG voters this year!!
Dear 10:24 AM,
ReplyDeleteWould you know if Supervisor Keith Langley has been able to take time out of his busy schedule to consult with his political boss, Chris DeFruscio, about making his (DeFruscio's?) appointment to the EG Ethics Board?
Supervisor Langley has already had a self imposed moratorium of five months to make his (DeFruscio's?) choice. Why the delay??
Maybe he and his boss, Chris DeFruscio, have already made a top secret appointment and are just "waiting for the right time" to let the non-connected citizens know about it.
Tom - In the example you present, the town board member would not have to disclose that relationship on their financial disclosure form (assuming one was required) but he/she would have to recuse themselves from any projects put before the town. Recusal is more than abstention, it means that person can't ever be even in the room when the project is being discussed. Right now the best we're getting is an abstention during the vote, and we're not even always getting that. I hope things are good.
ReplyDeleteDear Jack,
DeleteThanks for taking a look at this example and thank you for the information.
Best,
Tom
So we tip-toe around the financial entanglements of one Town family......What about the interests of all the rest of us?????
ReplyDeleteAnonymous 9:30: I couldn't agree more. During the time I was on the Board of Ethics I studied a number of Codes and read a lot of the literature on municipal codes of ethics and they all said the same thing: a Code of Ethics exists to assure the public that all transactions made by their town officials are made in the public interest and not for the benefit of any political party, family, individual or business interest. The fatal flaw in the state law empowering boards of ethics is that town boards have the final say in what is contained in a town's Code of Ethics. In effect, they are asked to police themselves and it's not just our town board, can you think of any set of politicians you would trust to do that? At first I thought it was okay because I didn't believe that a board would embarrass itself by ignoring the public interest but as I've been told many times I am hopelessly naïve because that's exactly what happened. But sometimes you have to play the long game when dealing with government and I promise you we will get a good Code of Ethics at some point. Since I'm getting old I hope I'm around to see it.
ReplyDeleteLest we forget...One of Sue Mangold's brothers in law, received a stipend without even a fake or made up justification. When the former supervisor gave taxpayer money to him there was exactly nothing listed as a reason.
ReplyDeleteAmazing but true and the Gadfly has the documwnts to prove if you doubt it.
That's a lie!
Delete337. So does everybody else it was public record. Nice try once again. Good grief do something constructive in your life. Sincerely Your everyday mindless troll
ReplyDeleteKevin Tuffy, $2,000 - zero explanation.
ReplyDeleteThat's a simple, basic, fact. Look it up.
And, it was only public record AFTER it was FOILed for. Heck, the town board did not even know what they were voting for because the stipend amounts were buried in the budget.
Do you both realize that Ginny O'Brien has never publically stated if she approved the stipends and voted for them. Do you think that is an acc9ident or a smart political move on her part?
If the stipends were such a good thing for our town why hasn't the town board continued them? Or, does the very idea of giving a HUGE stipend for "depositing checks" to Toni Murphy seems a little ridiculous even to you both?
So, to my friends and neighbors at 12:54 PM and 9:46 AM you are simply incorrect.
Have there been any comments from East Greenbush CFO and Town Supervisor Keith Langley regarding today's news reports comparing East Greenbush to Detroit, Michigan? The reports state that East Greenbush is at risk of bankruptcy due to "years of fiscal mismanagement-including questionable employment contracts and illegal payments to town officials."
ReplyDeleteTHE LANGLEY RESPONSE?? Supervisor Langley has chosen to once again hide from the media (no surprise).
Looks like Langley is in way over his head and has absolutely no clue about what to say or do.
Yikes!!!
Here's the link...
ReplyDeletehttp://blog.timesunion.com/capitol/archives/192723/are-east-greenbush-and-newburgh-going-to-be-nys-detroits/
For G*d's sake Keith. SPEAK UP!! THIS IS SERIOUS BUSINESS! Start by talking to someone other than Chris DeFruscio!!!
ReplyDeleteCouldn't agree more ! Defruscio is NOT the person Langley should be taking advice from ! Good Grief !
DeleteIt's time for the Supervisor to quit thinking he won a beauty contest and recognize that he's in the job because the previous administration screwed up royally. (He actually said this in a campaign interview with Jim L.) It's time to get down to some real administrative action to save this berg. And enough with the "I'm in the minority so I can't do anything BS."
ReplyDeleteThe Town just hired Wojeski to compile financial records prior to 2009 to attempt to make sense of the Town's financial position. What does that tell you about the competence of financial management that got the Town into a $2.5 million interfund debt? Nobody was minding the store, and the taxpayer was continually footing the bill.
Time to throw all the bums out!!!
OK...and replace them with who? Dimartino? What financial experience does she have ??
DeleteLangley has access to any number of people who do not have political "loyalties" or aspirations who have the ability to advise in these matters. He blew them off right after the election under pressure from the Dems and at the advice of DeFruscio. Some genius, huh?
DeleteDear 9:14 PM,
DeleteDon't forget, Mr. Langley DID reach out to former Supervisor McCabe to serve as his consultant and spokesman, as is noted in the link to the Times Union article at the top of this page.
What a travesty and what a sad day for the taxpayers and the residents of the Town of East Greenbush.
We should all try to take comfort in each other as we are headed for some really tough times as a Town.
Why oh why did Keith Langley follow the advice of Chris DeFruscio, for Pete's sake?
DeleteDue to Mr. Langley's complete lack of leadership and the dreadful influence of Mr. DeFruscio, East Greenbush is now in deep trouble.
If Mr. Langley can't or won't do anything, EG may be looking at the imposition of a State run Financial Control Board, which could
ReplyDeleteaffect EG's ability to borrow the full $14 million from the NYS Environmental Facilities Corporation for the sewer project.
Moore's article in Newsmax is an utterly stunning development!!! For East Greenbush to come so high on an unholy list like that means all of the worst case scenarios laid out by critics of the town board are likely true. All hyperbole aside, if I was a member of the East Greenbush town board and I read that article I would immediately resign and write a letter of apology to be mailed to every home in town at my own expense. While it is true that not all of this is the fault of the current board or supervisor the fact that they continue to conduct business as usual with no financial recovery plan, no hiring freeze, no plan to cut costs and absolutely no open acknowledgement that we are in junk bond status means they are as culpable as the people who dug this hole to begin with. I have tried to look at the bright side and think of myself as a positive person but this is pure and total bullshit. How much humiliation will it take before something changes? Enough of the excuses. Time to pass a strong Code of Ethics, adopt a plan for administrative reform, pass a painful but realistic financial recovery plan, and somebody needs to explain to the people of this town why this has happened. Time for the people in power to step up or step off!
ReplyDeleteWasn't Rick McCabe, Ms. Bennett, and Ms. Ingolsby in charge of the town finances when this fiscal disaster occurred. All of which are aligned with the current board majority of Mangold, O'Brien, and Malone. Isn't it also true that Mr. Malone not only serves on the Town Board, but is also the chairman of the East Greenbush Democrat Party.
DeleteDoes anyone really expect anything will be different when Mr. Malone selects his two candidates for Town Board during this years election cycle?
Can all be summed up in two words.
" SELF SERVING"
Jack, I think I would resign too, but you and I both have ethics something this towns leadership has been lacking for quite some time. While I agree that Langley and the current town board have added to this mess, it should not in anyway be solely placed on them. This is something that has happened over time.
ReplyDeleteWe as the people here in this town deserve better, but until these so called politicians get off of their asses and actually do something beneficial for the whole town rather than for their friends and family nothing will change.
Election time is coming people wake up!!!!
Jack: It is, in fact, MUCH worse than what you describe. Most members of the current town board blew $500,000 of taxpayer money on the completely financially irresponsible early retirement option. Another $60,000 was blown to allow a town employee to receive a state pension under highly questionable circumstances.
ReplyDeleteThe $14 million we are about to spend on the waste treatment plant is the result of decades of neglet. The solar panels have a roughly 22 year payback.
Then we have all the consultant's, the unbelievable number of new patronage and nepotism positions created, new and unnecessary vehicles and equipment purhased, raises granted, irresponsible union contract agreements and on and on and on it goes.
The Citizens Financial Advisory Committee is a farce; a joke - as was the Ethics Board.
But supervisor Langley got a pay increase, as did Toni Murphy and others.
We, including you, know exactly why this has happened. The town board is flagrantly irresponsible. They care only about finding, and worse creating, unnecessary jobs for family and friends. They care nothing, and I mean nothing, about doing what is best for taxpayers. Their decision making, their secrecy, their lies, their deceit, their playing games have all added up to the current mess.
Resign? It would be better if they all were indicted.
It really and truly is time for a taxpayer revolt.
Here is unholy, http://blog.timesunion.com/capitol/archives/192723/are-east-greenbush-and-newburgh-going-to-be-nys-detroits/
ReplyDeleteUnion contracts and their "negotiations" with the Town are at fault too.
A few years ago we had a chance to begin turning this around. One candidate showed us a FRP and a couple of candidates gave us their ideas for SOLUTIONS. Instead, we elected the same old, same old, and shame on those that keep electing the old regime and their offspring. Too bad THOSE 2 aren't running this year!
Now we know why Ginny moved out of East Greenbush. Sorry Gin, you are STILL part of this BIG mess.
ReplyDeleteJack;
ReplyDeleteI am very surprised that a man as smart as you would be sucked in by such an irresponsible piece of garbage political article like that. First, the list is in alphabetical order, in case you didn't notice. He has EG , with 2 mil in debt.(its actually much less) listed ahead of cites with billions. 2nd, how does East Greenbush get included on a list of Major U.S. Cities? 3rd, just about every municipality has debt and most larger than EG.
Finally, if you want the real story, go to State Comptroller Tom Dinapoli's website and look at the report he put out in June. It lists the municipalities in NY and their stress level. For one example, Colonie is listed as under considerable stress. EG is on the no designation list, meaning it is not under stress. EG is listed at 37% level and Colonie is in the 65% area, which puts Colonie on the list and EG not even close.
Plain and simple, Someone got to that blogger on the very conservative Newsmax.com site and it is very irresponible for whomever did this, as it is causing the people of this town to think we are going under....all for politcal reasons.
I would tend to believe the lists that DiNapoli put out before that Newsmax.com idiot.
For starters, Anony, the numbers which OSC uses in this survey are not audited. And OSC just finished saying in its last report on EG that the numbers were in such a shambles that the Town couldn't determine its financial position. Isn't that why Wojeski was recently hired to compile records for Toski? DiNapoli's list is compiled from "ratios" based on unaudited numbers in some cases. (I think you need to remember what Dwight pointed out recently.....One of the last AUDS submitted to OSC had no fuel numbers at all.)
DeleteJust google Capitol Confidential.
ReplyDeleteI agree with 6:31 AM. Where are Those 2? I also remember one of the candidates bringing to light the Scrap scandal. I think that candidate was instrumental in getting the State to audit EG. Of course, the Town officials ignored the State findings.
Is there any way the State can be informed that our Officials have just ignored what they were told to do?
Wake up EG Dems, it's your pocketbook, too.
I hope Mary Ann makes a copy of the East Greenbush-Detroit story and passes it out on her campaign through the Town.
ReplyDeleteGood Luck, Mary Ann.
That is a great idea, and if she needs some help passing out that stuff I would be more than happy to help
DeleteI'm getting some "push-back" asserting that the State Comptroller says that things are not so bad. The problem is that the State Comptroller has shown himself to be highly selective in a politicized way in the manner in which he supposedly does his job. Anonymous @9:45 above makes the point that I'd emphasize - the OSC doesn't do compliance reviews when it re-engages an auditee. OSC recommended a Financial Recovery Plan years ago. In the last go around, not a mention in the report that the issue had not been addressed. It's very instructive to do a comparison of the recent audit reports. Findings and recommendations in earlier reports aren't addressed in subsequent reports.
ReplyDeleteAnd on the matter of "distress level," the fact is that EG cannot even determine its financial condition. The Town just hired Wojeski to compile financial material so that the 2010 financial statements could be audited by Toski.
OSC has failed as an oversight agency to really "nail" what has been going on here in EG, and thereby has in effect "licensed" what has been going on. They have treated our politicians with "kid gloves."
Will supervisor langley be once again asking rick mccabe to consult with him about this financial mess?
ReplyDeletei blame a lot of this on mr. langley. he sat around for two years doing nothing except having lunch with rick mccabe and riding around in the truck with chris defruscio. he has ignored the call for a recoupment of illegally paid stipends and other incentives to insiders and he has refused to even propose a financial recovery plan. mr. langley has not shown the type of work effort needed to get the town out of this mess. things may be fine for him over on langley lane, but the rest of us run the great risk of our home values tanking and our services becoming even more limited. it's not surprising mr. langley won't speak up and offer a plan. he just doesn't have the temperament required to formulate any viable proposals.
let's not rush to jump on the ms. matters bandwagon just yet. i am hopeful about her, but she has yet to offer any plan at this point. although i do believe she does have the ability to do so, unlike her husband. the other mr. defruscio candidate, ms. dimartino, is a langley acolyte. she says she is running for the town board to support the langley program, whatever that it. as for mr. malone and the democratic candidates, they have the chance to also stand up and offer a plan, let's hope they do, sooner rather than later. this town cannot afford another two years of langley's emperor nero like inaction and inattention. thank you for allowing me to express my views. i enjoy reading your blog.
Every one of the people who think there is nothing wrong in our town need to get your heads out of your asses. I know that is not nice but what is it going to take?
ReplyDeleteMoody's and S&P issued junk bond ratings of our credit.
We illegally made interfund transfer that are being recovered at a glacial pace not the 1 year required by law.
The OSC audit of our mess called financial accounting was a complete train wreck. Did you read it? Seriously, did you read the damn thing?
The town has been BADLY managed for a long time. I don't give a shit who is to blame. - McCabe? For sure. Before him? Who cares. Langley and the current town board? Definitely.
But please stop pretending that all is well - because it most certainly is not.
I realize it is hard for people to admit. But the reformers were right all along. They still are.
There is not a household or a business in town that would make the stupid decisions this and previous town boards have made.
So...make fun of the reformers, spew your filth. But please do not try to keep selling the crap that all is well. It is not and it has not been for too many years now.
It's hard to describe how depressing the Moore article is to people who care about this town. The democrats probably bear the most responsibility because they have been in power but does anyone think the republicans would act differently? Neither side wants to change the system, they only want control so their own people can feed at the public trough. I've said it many times but it bears repeating: town government in East Greenbush exists for the benefit of town employees and political insiders and not for the benefit of the residents of the town. We just pay the freight.
ReplyDeleteI've been here for 25 years and it's a sad thing to watch a nice community like this fall into decline because of purposeful neglect by public officials. This town needs a Citizens Budget Commission. Not a farce like the Citizens Financial Advisory Committee and certainly not anything with people appointed by the crowd that dug this hole but an independent vehicle for the residents of EG to focus the town board's attention on the really important things, like our tax rate or the decrepit government we're being offered. Such a Commission would do an independent analysis of the town's finances and tap into the many people in town who do have some financial expertise and can be of real assistance at a time like this.
The fiscal catastrophe we face is not a partisan issue because it affects everyone regardless of political affiliation. Second most likely to follow Detroit into the void? Worse financial situation than Oakland or the poster child for corruption, Providence RI? I think Anonymous 1:50 actually gives the powers-that-be too much credit when he says they're selling a message that all is well. It's worse than that. They think we're 'ahead of the curve.'
However, the state comptroller's office says it's their list you should pay attention to. The Fiscal Stress Monitoring System is a guideline based on fiscal and environmental factors that rates each community’s stress level. Based on these numbers, East Greenbush doesn't need to worry.
ReplyDeleteNew York State Assistant Comptroller Nathaalie Carey explained, “In order to reach into our fiscal stress categories, which would've been ‘susceptible to stress,’ which is the lowest category, you have to have at least 45 percent. They're at 35.”
When asked about the town’s fiscal history, she replied, “We have seen them get into a better financial situation now than they were in in years past."
If you take time to look at the OSC data site, you will see that the data is a "snapshot as of May 31, 2013. According to OSC itself, the Town is not capable of producing financial condition data as of that date. So OSC sends out a "flack" to interpret a system which has flawed data regarding EG.
ReplyDeleteThe "majority" is grasping at anything available to preserve some sort of confidence in its administration of Town finances over the years. They don't get that it's over. Year after year of reports which haven't been addressed, and they are still trying to hold on to some sort of credibility. It's over.
Remember the "majority", on this and most other issues, includes Mr. Langley. There's the rub...
ReplyDeleteNow this jerk is trying to say that the solution is not viable because Langley is in the mix. Don't you get it? Both parties are out. We can't have the mischief anymore.
ReplyDeleteWho was actually responsible for putting us over $2,000,000 in debt? Is it correct that Rick McCabe was the Town Supervisor during that time? Is it correct that Kate Bennett was the Town Comptroller during that time? Is it correct that Laura Ingolsby was the Director of Finance during that time?
DeleteIt would seem that they would have been the ones with the fiduciary responsibility to administer the town budget during that time, along with the Town Board, during that time.
Is there something else we should understand in order to have a factual knowledge of what led our town into this financial disaster?
They just weren't minding the store.
DeleteThe Supervisor just said on WNYT that he would propose a tax increase to deal with the "budget deficit." ( I think he might mean the interfund debt.)
ReplyDeleteIf there is going to be a tax increase to retire that debt, it seems to me that the first contributors should be the stipend recipients and the sick-leave and longevity recipients cited by the State Comptroller. There's even an in-law of a current Board member on that list.
Supervisor Langley just loves those tax increases.
DeleteWould be nice if we had the policy and a multi-year plan implementing that policy spelled out in plain English and on the record, wouldn't it. Until they understand that, and it is out there in public so there is accountability - all the talk is just blowing smoke.
DeleteBTW, from the sound of it, Malone just threw McCabe, Bennett and Ingoldsby under the bus on WNYT.
Seems to me as if Malone is finally beginning to step up. At least he didn't automatically talk about tax increases like Langley did.
ReplyDeleteMr. Langley, the answer isn't another one of your tax increases. The solution starts with your support and articulation of a financial recovery plan.
Just what is it that Malone is stepping up to? His people, his party mismanaged over $2,000,000 of our money. Unlike Phil stepping up, Langley is manning up and cleaning up our financial mess. Taxes were increased by 1.9%. This was below the 2% tax cap. This tax increase was representative of $180,000 towards "deficit" reduction. Langley voted NO on the hiring of 3 full time employees witin the last year at our DPW. Those 3 employees cost the town a minimum of another $180,000 per year that could have gone towards deficit reduction. Simple math folks, if Malone had listened to Langley we would be reducing the deficit by $360,000 per year instead of $180,000. There's a recovery plan, modest tax increase while cutting spending. Malone doesn't get it and never will. If Langley wasn't there the so called mischief would be still going on. Remember McCabe's country club?
DeleteMaybe the town workers (all of them) could be furloughed just like the state workers and federal workers were before they decide to increase anyone's taxes in this town. We pay more than enough already in taxes in bush!!!
ReplyDelete7:49 PM-- Good suggestion. Would you consider trying to contact Mr. Langley at town hall before lunchtime to ask him to consider bringing this up during the upcoming labor/management contract negotiations?
ReplyDeleteNot something your really "negotiate" is it? It's usually something that management decides in order to further a necessary policy.
DeleteAs long as Phil Malone continues to squander the tax payers money you are going to have tax increases . Get used to it or get rid of Malone. Don't blame Langley for paying the bills legitimately.
ReplyDeleteThe Supervisor could be making a lot more public noise about the overspending of the majority. To this point, he has decided not to.
DeleteYou seem to have a lot to say. Why don't you give him a hand. I do.
Delete820 - Malone has nothing to do with squandering the tax dollars. Its virtually impossible for him to singly do anything of the sort. Malone isn't the one continually saying he's going to raise taxes....
DeleteO really???? The last Town hire (salary, pension and benefits) was a Malone family friend. Questionable at that.
DeleteMalone is directly responsible for squandering the hard earned money of the East Greenbush taxpayers. He voted YES on all three of those full time DPW hirings. He cost the East Greenbush taxpayers $180,000 that could have gone toward reducing the illegal inter fund borrowing that Malone's Democrat party ran up an illegal bill of over $2,000,000. Malone likes to spend our money on his friends. That's what Malone is all about spending our money on his friends and family.
DeleteSo as it has been reported on channel 13 news that Malone stated he will not support going after any of the stipend money doled out by Rick McCabe. He claims it not to be cost affective . When in fact in large part most of the money was given to people within the democrat party, or at the very least loyalist to Malone's party. Who knows, there might be a silver lining in it for McCabe. With all the weight of worry off his shoulders he might improve his handicap.
DeleteOne more thing, Malone said he inherited the problem of an over $2,000,000 illegal inter fund borrowing debt ( deficit ). It would be important to note that he inherited it from his own people. Only difference then and now is McCabe handed out
"money " to his friends and family. Malone is now handing out "jobs"to his friends and family.
Hopefully in November the voters will make a smart decision and elect new people not aligned with Malone and his old regime. The only way to make the problem go away is to vote them all away.
To better days!
He hasn't asked.
ReplyDeleteFood for Thought_________
ReplyDelete"People are often unreasonable and self-centered. Forgive them anyway.
If you are kind, people may accuse you of ulterior motives. Be kind anyway.
If you are honest, people may cheat you. Be honest anyway.
If you find happiness, people may be jealous. Be happy anyway.
The good you do today may be forgotten tomorrow. Do good anyway.
Give the world the best you have and it may never be enough. Give your best anyway.
For you see, in the end, it is between you and God. It was never between you and them anyway."
-Mother Teresa
Joe, you are a super nice man aligned with thieves, liars, crooks, corrupt politicians, and other miscellaneous and assorted scoundrels.
DeleteBy the way, can you kindly enlighten East Greenbush taxpayers on how much money the town has received from the sale of scrap in 2011, 2012 and year to date 2013?
Thanks so much.
I would like to hear from Mary Ann. If the Wall Street Journal writes about the East Greenbush-
ReplyDeleteDetroit problem, Mary Ann has an issue handed to her.
I, frankly, will have a hard time dealing with another tax increase.
Mary Ann, please keep pounding the Tax Increase issue. Langley announced the increase on TV. This is the ONE ISSUE people understand!
Speaking of :
ReplyDelete• McCabe stipend payouts to all his friends and family.
• McCabe's illegal $2,000.000 + inter-fund borrowing practices.
• Malone's patronage hiring dragging the town further into debt.
• Malone's mother working in town hall.
• Malone's brother working for the town DPW.
Just to mention a few things being talked about around the water cooler this week.
Did any one catch the article in this weeks Thursday Advertiser about Ethics. Yes folks, Matters and Langley are still trying to put the people first, and push for a strong Ethics code as originally drafted by the ethics board then chaired by Jack Conway. Matters and Langley have been supportive of Mr. Conway's ethics code version since its conception only to be denied even a public hearing on the issue by the current board majority. It's time to get behind Supervisor Langley and Councilperson Matters and help them see this through.
Much, if not all of what has been identified here could not be possible if the original version of the ethics code were to be voted into law.
I am in support of the Ethics Code as drafted by the Conway Board. I am glad Mr. Langley and Mr. Matters are also in support but I would hope that they both attempt to understand it better because their explanation of it in the Advertiser is misleading and, frankly, scary.
DeleteLet me explain. Langley and Matters say the the code "would reduce patronage" when in fact patronage is actually written into state law and, while held in disliked by some, it is a part of the fabric of government. What needs to be reduced is nepotism and cronyism (the practice of selecting a less qualified candidate because of who they are). Victorious office holders are allowed to appoint QUALIFIED candidates to Town jobs. Patronage is not entirely prohibited and if done correctly as directed by the Code is perfectly acceptable.
The Code also does not prohibit family members of TB members from competing for Town contracts. It provides ways for the public to be assured that the contracts are awarded on an even playing field. In this Town, it is good when a certain parties are awarded contracts. the Code simply stipulates that disclosure and recluser is necessary.
Dear 11:49 AM,
DeleteWould you know if Supervisor Langley has appointed anyone to the ethics board? It's been about five months since former Supervisor McCabe's appointee, Jim Brieg, resigned.
Thank you.
Jack Conway's comment on Talks posted last night deserves an appearance here::
ReplyDelete"You guys think I'm crying wolf when your defense is that we don't really know how bad things are because the books are so screwed up. Are you people listening to yourselves? In the world of finance it is NO defense to argue that things can't really be that bad because we have no idea what the numbers are. Do you really think that with an accounting disaster like this there is a random chance that things are really alright? Mention of a financial recovery 'plan' is simple denial: there is no plan, there is no strategy, there doesn't even seem to be that much concern that we live in a town that has ridiculously high taxes and a huge debt. How is possible to have both of those things at the same time? I'll give you a hint: mismanagement, excessive patronage hiring and no concern about the effect of the actions of a few on the taxpayers of this town.
I hope you guys are listening to people talking in the shops and supermarkets. You can rationalize this stuff any way you like but our town has taken a devastating hit in the court of public opinion. People are pissed and rightfully so."
9:14 PM-This is the first time I heard about Malone recently hiring another friend. He definitely is NOT interested in helping the Town clean up this financial disaster. Malone may NOT be the cause of this mess, but he sure isn't helping to fix it.
ReplyDeleteBy the way, how did Langley ever get elected?
Simple answer. Langley got elected by taking the high road, and thankfully is staying on it.
DeleteSupport Langley and Ethics Reform. I am!!
Still waiting to read about the "Langley plan"!! It might be a nice topic for him to address in his next Supervisor's Report in the Advertiser.
ReplyDeleteSupervisor Langley's continued association with his political boss, Chris DeFruscio, calls into question his sincere belief in Ethics Reform, or any open government proposals for that matter.
ReplyDeleteI do give Rick Matters credit for continuing to fight the good fight on Ethics Reform. I am hopeful Rick Matters' wife will have the political courage to distance herself from Chris DeFruscio and continue her husband's good works in this area.
Sadly, Mr. Langley has refused to use his Bully Pulpit as Supervisor to sincerely champion Ethics Reform. For example, he could convene a public forum on ethics at a location such as the EG Library, in order to engage the general public and local businesses in a wide ranging discussion. I am sure that someone like Jack Conway would agree to serve as a moderator if Mr. Langley was unable or felt uncomfortable to do so himself. In fact, there is still time for Mr. Langley to set up such a forum before the election. Mr. Langley would then be able to provide detailed reasons for why the residents of EG should support Ethics Reform.
Perhaps Mr. Langley could invite his Boss, current GOP Chairman Chris DeFruscio to participate. I'm sure the people of EG would be greatly entertained and enlightened by hearing Mr. DeFruscio's views on Ethics and other Reform topics.
Andrea Smith is a diehard democrat who is running this year for a seat on the Rens. County Legislature. Not surprisingly, Smith openly and brazenly blames minority members Langley and Matters for all the ills of East Greenbush, including the fact that we were listed # 2 on the list of towns most likely to go bankrupt. Also, not surprising, is the fact that Smith is running with Susan Mangold who is currently one-third of the majority of votes on our town board and sister-in-law to Kevin Tuffy who took a $2,000 stipend payment for an undisclosed reason. Smith and Mangold need to be honest with themselves and others and place blame for the damage that's been done to our town where it BELONGS and EG residents need to stop turning a blind eye to the state of our town at the polls and the majority of THREE people who are running our town into the dirt. Instead of voting incumbents in over and over, look at the fresh faces who want to cure our town's ills. This election year, think CHANGE. Don't forget to vote in the primary on September 10!
ReplyDeleteTo Anonymous on 8/10 at 10:41 a.m.: If you want to see the illusive "plan," use your vote(s) on September 10 (Primary Day) and November 5 (Election Day) to place the Supervisor in the MAJORITY on the town board. The way to do that is to vote for Mary Ann Matters AND Deberah DiMartino on 9/10 and/or 11/5. The current majority of Democrats has no interest in helping the Supervisor to achieve his goals for the town of EG via "the plan." Therefore, why would he devulge the details of the plan before he was is able to implement the plan? Be patient...and vote. Give the Supervisor the POWER he needs to bring this town back to good fiscal health. Currently, the town of EG is collecting PLENTY of money from us taxpayers YET it is dying financially. If the current board majority (Ginny O'Brien, Phil Malone and Susan Mangold) were managing a sub shop, for example, it would out of business in a year...bankrupt! These individuals do NOT know how to run a sound business, nor do they want to. They just want to hire their family and friends to work in the shop and help themselves to free subs while raising the prices for the rest of us to pay for it. Get it? VOTE!!!
ReplyDeleteThere's are REAL problem with this approach. It's "elect me and I'll show you what's in the sack." Well the voters need and deserve to know what's in the sack before the election. Give us a non-secret reason to vote for you. The "pig in the poke" approach just doesn't work. If there is a "plan," put it out there - in plain English.
DeleteDear 9;16 AM,
Delete"...why would he (Langley) devulge (sic) the details of the plan..." because this is the United States of America, that's why. Our Founding Fathers fought to allow citizens the right to make INFORMED decisions about who or what they choose to vote for.
GOD BLESS AMERICA!!
To 9:15 AM,
DeleteHow would anyone know that the "current majority of Democrats has no interest in helping the Supervisor to achieve his goals for the town of EG via 'the plan'"? If, as you say, he (Mr. Langley has declined to "devulge (??) the details of the plan before he is able to implement the plan?"
How can the Town Board members "help the Supervisor to achieve his goals for the Town of EG" when the Supervisor refuses to tell anyone what his goals are?
I disagree, 9:15 AM. The voters should seek a candidate who will listen to the people. What you are asking for is two TB members who will always support Langley, giving Langley the same thing that the current majority has, the ability to shove things that are bad through because what the majority says goes. That is not acceptable.
DeleteTo fix this, I do have a plan. Jack Conway, can we ask your permission to write your name in on primary day and election day? If a real independent person who understands the issues is elected all the problems associated with "majority" will be cleared up. We will be able to force our politicians into adult discussions on real issues.
@9:15AM....Please do not send Ms. Matters and Ms. DiMartino out into the public with this curious secret platform. If you have something different or better, please say so. Come on, we are desperate, the Democrats have not served us well. Please let the Republicans tell us how they can do better. Otherwise we can only assume these two candidates will be a disappointment, much like Langley.
ReplyDeleteOh, maybe you are doing a parody, 9:15. Are you using your post to show us how silly a secret platform is.
I remember when Mike and Ann ran a few years ago and they had a GREAT Financial plan. It not only would have put the Town on the road to recovery, but as I remember, it also included a small tax DECREASE. Can you imagine-DECREASE.
ReplyDeleteMaybe Langley should be asking them for help.
9:15 AM-You do NOT have to tell me to vote. I haven't missed an election since 1960-Kennedy.
9:15 am
ReplyDeleteIf you attended the debate, or paid attention to the campaign between Cristo/Taylor and Malone/Mangold you may recall that Cristo/Taylor had created, and discussed, their "contract with the taxpayers". It was a point by point pretty well detailed plan of what they would do if elected.
I agree with the Gadfly. If Langley has such a plan what possible benfit is there to keep it a secret? Seriously, plans only come to life when they are shared and discussed.
Almost all politicians promise more than they ever deliver. That's a polite way to say most politicians lie during campaigns. Mangold and Malone most certainly did when they promised greater operational transparency. Please tell us that Langley is not following that sad trend with his often claimned but never shared financial plan.
Voters deserve respect and information in return for their vote. Arguing for people's vote but providing no reasons for that vote is disrespectful and insulting to people's intelligence.
While we're waiting for the Langley/Matters Advertiser letter on the Ethics code for a new Post, let's have at this one. Mr. Malone told the WNYT reporter that the Board had consulted with Counsel and had determined that attempting to recover the illegally paid stipends, longevity and sick-leave disbursements - as recommended by the State Comptroller was not "cost effective." A friend sent the following questions for Mr. Malone:
ReplyDelete"I have been wondering about Malone's comments that the town consulted with an attorney who concluded that attempting to recover the stipends was too expense to be justified.
I am wondering if the attorney were Liccardi?
I am wondering why that information was shared with a TV reporter but not the public who paid for the stipends and stood to gain by their recovery?
I am wondering if the legal analysis was put in writing?
I am wondering what criteria the legal analysis used to reach the stated conclusion?
I continue to wonder what actual legal "work" Liccardi (and Joan Malone) actually perform?
I am wondering why Liccardi could not have handled the matter in the regular course of his employment by the town?"
Some good questions there for Mr. Malone to answer. Just about all those who would be reimbursing the Town to the tune of something like $140,000 are his Democratic Party-mates. Time for Langley and Matters to offer that Resolution to proceed, and let MOM vote it down and explain that to the taxpayer.
Dear Gadfly:
DeleteDidn't the Comptroller's report also suggest that Mr. Liccardi's paid Town employment status be looked into?
Dear Gadfly 5:20 PM,
ReplyDeleteYou raise some excellent questions.
One would also think these would be questions Supervisor Langley might ask of EG Town Attorney, Mr. Liccardi.
After all, Mr. Langley is currently the Town's Chief Financial Officer.
The best bet is that Mr. Langley has already spoken to Mr. Liccardi and has been convinced that the best way to handle this is to remain silent (no surprise there). This suits Mr. Langley's purposes just fine, as it fits in nicely with the DeFruscio/Langley SAY NOTHING, DO NOTHING, TOP SECRET PLAN campaign strategy. (lol)
Otherwise, Mr. Langley would have made sure to highlight his differences with Mr. Malone to Ch 13... wouldn't he?
If "Counsel" was consulted, Counsel should be required to put the opinion in writing, since this was a recommendation of the State Comptroller. At this point, I don't believe Mr. Malone. His statement appeared a bit "off-hand" and was not convincing. I think some "paper'' would help his credibility.
ReplyDeleteTo add to the gadfly's questions, and no offense to Mr. Malone because I have defended him before, but here is my question for Mr. Malone, Why would I trust anything you have to say since you used your notary public in a not so notary way?
ReplyDeleteAnd since I'm into speaking my mind here, I think 8/9 at 7:49 had a pretty good suggestion. I didn't create the problem in this town, so I shouldn't have to pay any more taxes than I already do. No offense to the people that work in the town, because I don't think its right if they take pay away from you either, but as a state worker the governor made me pay for his and all of his cronies who couldn't manage to balance a budget. I also know of some federal workers going through it right now because for whatever reason our federal government doesn't know how to balance a budget either. So in my mind if they want to up the taxes in this town they can kiss my backside, we already pay more than enough in taxes in this town. So find some other way to get, or better learn how to manage the money you get a little better. I can't believe anyone would even think of a tax increase!!!
I also agree with what other people are saying if Langley has a plan lets hear it. To me the way I see it unless he comes up with some type of plan he will get at least one less vote next time.
Dear Jim C.,
DeleteThe way I understand it, is that Mr. Langley has a plan, but he has decided not to tell anyone what it is before the election.
I'm concerned this secret Langley plan involves a large tax increase.
I'm with you, I'm not voting for the Langley supported Town Board candidates until he tells us what his plan is all about.
Tomorrow morning Paul Vandenburg will be talking about the stories he missed last week.
ReplyDeleteSomeone, who can explain the East Greenbush-Detroit story, may want to call Paul.
I will give you 1 huge reason it would not be cost effective to go after the stipend and sick time money. The people who got the money, were working fort the town when it happened. They got the money, thinking they were entitled to it. The town would therefore have to provide council to every person that they were going after. That means the town would pay for a lawyer for everyone, including all the republicans in the 70's and 80's, cuz it won't stop with the few that you gadflies want to go after. Start adding up those bills and you see why it isn't cost effective.
ReplyDeleteTo quote our Tax Receiver....."I need that for my pension." How credible is "depositing checks" as an excuse for extra cash for the Tax Receiver? Gimme a break. They all knew it was an "inside deal." The whole mess just goes to show you how corrupt and messed up our Town government has been. If the bunch had any honor at all, they'd start writing their checks. The patronage crowd now becomes an employee cadre demanding the Town defend them?
DeleteDear 8:52 PM
ReplyDeleteBy what stretch of legal logic do you conclude that the town would have to provide counsel to every stipend recipient?
The former supervisor's so called "logic" was that stipends had always been done that way.
So, if applying this same logic...if someone murders 9 people do they get to murder the 10th and claim, "I have always done it this way"? An absurd example to point out the absurdity of your comment.
The former supervisor, had, at all times, complete and unfettered access to an attorney who could have advised him of the illegal nature of how the stipends were being granted.
Surely even you see the ridiculousness of the former supervisor awarding himself and his daughter a huge stipend.
Surely even you see the absurdity of the tax collector receiving a huge stipend for depositing checks.
Surely you see the theft of taxpayer money associated with giving Sue Mangold's brother-in-law a stipend for NOTHING - no explanation at all.
Look, the stupidity of how our town has been managed - by both political parties has to end - and right now.
If what you claim is correct how about the attorney who did the analysis and reached the conclusion you are claiming issues a public, written document in support of that conclusion? Can you help us all with that? Thanks if you can; take a hike if you cannot. I, for one, am sick of the excuses for the continuing misuse and abuse of taxpayers in this otherwise fine town.
Dear 8:38 AM,
ReplyDeleteThank you so much for your terrific post.
Supervisor Keith Langley, as the Town's Chief Financial Officer, is also well positioned to issue "a public, written document" about this issue. I'm sure he is in the process of crafting a detailed analysis for his next Advertiser Column
It is very important to Supervisor Keith Langley that the residents of East Greenbush receive comprehensive information about the excellent points raised by 8:38 AM
I'm sure the people of East Greenbush will be very impressed after reading what Supervisor Keith Langley has to say about this.
Keith Langley is a wonderful leader.
Dear I Like Langley:
ReplyDeleteOne can only assume, based on your complete and total lack of credibility, that you are engaging in political humor or the ultimate in irony.
Nothing you have ever wirtten has been true, factual, accurate or makes you look like anything besides either an idiot or a really bad political satirist.
Have I missed anything here?
Anonymous 8;52: I believe that it would be right to recoup the money but I agree it would be a very expensive proposition. I don't think the town would have to provide attorneys for everybody but it would have to pay attorney fees to defend the town against the private lawsuits that would likely be filed. In addition, the town might lose a number of these cases as employees do not have an obligation to show they are being paid in a legal manner. If someone offers you a raise or incentive at your job it's a fair argument to say you took it in good faith. I'm obviously not an attorney but I think a good lawyer could beat the town on this one.
ReplyDeleteI advocate a different approach to the problem. I think this town board should, by a vote of 5-0, pass a resolution admitting that the payments were wrong and request that the recipients repay the town. Do I think this would result in the money being recouped? Probably not. But it would put this town board on record as admitting that this was wrong and it would become part of the public record of those who received the money that they were requested to repay the money and failed to do so. Without a resolution of this sort, the "it's not cost effective" argument is allowed to mask the fact that wrongful practices aren't being acknowledged and condemned.
For goodness sake, Conway. You're making the insider co-conspirator recipients of the stipends the victims of the illegal activity and not the taxpayer. Before adopting your approach, I think we should see the written opinion from Mr. Malone's "consultation." I just can't see a bunch of political insiders suing the Town to protect their receipt of an illegal payment. Those payments - whether they knew it or not - were illegal. And those who initiated them are responsible for that. Your "kid gloves" on this one only serves to promote a culture of permissiveness - the wink and nod government which constantly leaks cash, like gas and scrap.
ReplyDeleteI believe the OSC divided the illegal payments into two categories. The stipends, concerning which the Town should seek legal counsel to see if the monies could be recouped, and the longevity/sick-leave payments to the Tax Receiver and the Supervisor which should be recouped. OSC itself discovered the longevity/sick-leave payments itself during the course of the recent audit. They were not part of the taxpayer complaints submitted to OSC.
Jack, are you aware of the fact that if you receive stolen property you are obligated, legally, to surrender it - even if you did not know it was stolen?
ReplyDeleteArguably the stipends were not stolen - except perhaps by McCabe, his daughter and Tuffy. But they were also, unarguably, implemented illegally for all elected officials - McCabe and Toni Murphy in particular. If McCabe claims otherwise all he does is shift the issue from corrupt to flaggrantly incompetent.
Keep in mind, please, that taxpayers spend thousands of dollars every year to send town officials to the Association of Towns junket - where they learn better even if they ignore what they learn.
Having said that I can understand you point about the town board coming clean on the issue but the odds of that ever happening are even less than getting the ethics code passed. Why that is the case bears examination by each and every voter.
I like the idea of Phil Malone backing up his claim with the written legal analysis that supports his public comments being shared with the taxpayers of our town - or was he just bullshitting us - again?
legal analysts don't do cost effective
DeleteI was talking with a friend, and wow is she upset. Her words, "Higher taxes?" Why, I didn't cause this problem. With the high taxes I pay, we should be swimming in money". I agreed with her.
ReplyDeleteThen she mentioned the sewer problem. I know she does not read blogs, so I was surprised. She
is a dem who thinks for herself.
The town of East Greenbush has an excellent tax base - even with the loss of businesses and the tax concessions made to FedEx.
ReplyDeleteOur problem is not taxes.
Our single problem is we keep electing irresponsible people who care only about shifting taxpayer money to themselves, their family members and their friends.
We overspend - period. Our political "leaders" hide, lie, mislead, misrepresent, obscure, cover up - you name it when it comes to spending.
We spent over half a million dollars to allow a small handful of people to retire early - and then promptly replaced them. That's $500,000 the East Greenbush town officials pissed away like it was nothing. How long does it take the average taxpayer to earn, and save $500,000??? With one stinking vote that money, our money, got spent completely wastefully.
When Langley got elected O'Brien, Mangold and Malone had, literally, a hissy fit and created brand new, made up jobs for a whole bunch of people.
There's more but writing about makes me sick.
3:29 PM
ReplyDeleteOf course they do. Any lawyer will provide an anticipated or expected cost of litigation.
That cost when compared to the expected recovery and the odds of prevailing is what goes into the kind of analysis board member Phil Malone was quoted as speaking to with his comments to the TV reporter.
Or, as someone else already suggested: "was he (Phil Malone) just bullshitting us - again?"
Bottillo, Vallee , DiMartino, and Matters should really think twice about getting involved in this mess.
DeleteAs long as the Phil Malone can wield his power and influence on our town nothing will change. He will continue to sweep yesterday's dirt under the carpet and simply lay down new carpet for tomorrow's similar behavior. That's all he knows, after all he was taught by the best, the very people that ran this town into the ground to begin with.
To 8:24 AM:
ReplyDeleteAgreed!
Unfortunately, it's not just Malone. The rank and file Reps. are also suffering under the iron fisted control of their Chairman Chris DeFruscio. Chris has no interest in supporting a healthy discussion of important Town issues such as Ethics, a Financial Recovery Plan and open and responsible government.
Just ask Martha Adiago and Randolph Cherubino about Mr. DeFruscio's use of his power and influence.
Sadly, both Malone and DeFruscio are cur from the same cloth.
According to new guidelines released by the State Comptroller's office this week, New York's property-tax cap for 2014 will drop to 1.66% due to changes in the consumer price index.
ReplyDeleteBudget conscious taxpayers of East Greenbush will want to know how this will impact Supervisor Keith Langley's "Plan" to increase their East Greenbush taxes next year.
Perhaps this announcement from the Comptroller's Office might prompt Mr. Langley to publicly reveal the details of his "Plan" prior to the election.
Or would this put him at odds with the no issues "strategy" of his political boss, current Rep. Chairman Chris DeFruscio?
Mr. Langley needs to choose between Good Government and Bad Politics ... and soon.