As promised, here are the rosters of the Town Board, the Planning Board and the Town Attorney for the years related to the documented dumping of Poop in the Hudson river. Some are saying that it has gone on for much longer. If they've got the documentation, we'll print it. (This list is from documents produced as a result of a FOIL to the Town.)
1999 Town Board
Phil Gause – Supervisor
O’Brien
Poorman
Seward
McCabe
1999 Planning Board
Claude Rounds – Chairman
Bill Sinnott
Linda Pollman
Rich Benko
Bruce Geiger
Bill Haney
Bill Ritz
1000 Town Attorney - Kevin Engel
2000 Town Board
Robert Angelini – Supervisor
Kim Halloran
Rick McCabe
Richard Reilly
Robert Seward
2000 Planning Board
Bill Haney – Chairman
Bruce Geiger
Linda Pollman
Don Panton
Bill Ritz
Rich Benko
Sue Mangold
2000 Town Attorney - Joseph McCoy
2001 Town Board
Robert Angelini – Supervisor
Robert Seward
Rick McCabe
Kim Halloran
Rich Reilly
2001 Planning Board
Same as 2000
2001 Town Attorney – Joseph
McCoy
2002 Town Board
Robert Angelini – Supervisor
Kim Halloran
Dean Kennedy
Rick McCabe
Richard Reilly
2002 Planning Board
William Haney – Chairman
Rich Benko
Linda Pollman
William Ritz, Jr.
Bruce Geiger
Don Panton
Sue Mangold
2002 Town Attorney – Joseph
Liccardi
2003 Town Board
Robert Angelini – Supervisor
Kim Halloran
Dean Kennedy
Rick McCabe
Richard Reilly
2003 Planning Board
William Haney – Chairman
Rich Benko
Linda Pollman
William Ritz, Jr.
Bruce Geiger
Don Panton
Sue Mangold
2003 Town Attorney – Joseph
Liccardi
2004 Town Board
Robert Angelini – Supervisor
Phil Danaher
Dean Kennedy
Rick McCabe
Richard Reilly
2004 Planning Board
William Haney
Rich Benko
Linda Pollman
Bruce Geiger
Donald Panton
Sue Mangold
2004 Town Attorney – Joseph
Liccardi
2005 Town Board
Robert Angelini – Supervisor
Phil Danaher
Dean Kennedy
Rick McCabe
Richard Reilly
2005 Planning Board
William Haney – Chairman
Rich Benko
Linda Pollman/Kurt Bergmann
Will Ritz, Jr.
Bruce Geiger
Donald Panton
Sue Mangold
2005 Town Attorney – Joseph
Liccardi
2006 Town Board
Robert Angelini/Rick McCabe – Supervisor
Rick McCabe/Mike Cristo
Richard Reilly
Dean Kennedy
Phil Danaher
2006 Planning Board
Bill Haney – Chairman
Donald Panton
William Ritz
Rich Benko
Kurt Bergmann
Sue Mangold
Robert Davey
2006 Town Attorney – Joseph
Liccardi
2007 Town Board
Rick McCabe – Supervisor
Dean Kennedy
Phil Danaher
Mike Cristo
Dom Indelicato
2007 Planning Board
Rich Benko – Chairman
William Haney
William Ritz
Kurt Bergmann
Sue Mangold
Donald Panton
Robert Davey
2007 Town Attorney – Joseph
Liccardi
2008 Town Board
Rick McCabe – Supervisor
Dean Kennedy
Phil Danaher
Mike Cristo
Rick Matters
2008 Planning Board
Rich Benko – Chairman
William Ritz
Kurt Bergmann
Sue Mangold
Robert Davey
Donald Panton
Bill Haney
2008 Town Attorney – Joseph
Liccardi
2009 Town Board
Rick McCabe – Supervisor
Dean Kennedy
Phil Danaher
Mike Cristo
Rick Matters
2009 Planning Board
Rich Benko – Chairman
Kurt Bergmann
Sue Mangold
Robert Davey
Donald Panton
William Ritz
Matt Polsinello
2009 Town Attorney – Joseph
Liccardi
2010 Town Board
Rick McCabe – Supervisor
Rick Matters
Virginia O’Brien
Mike Cristo (removed 2/10)
Phil Danaher (removed 2/10)
2010 Planning Board
Jeff Pangburn – Chairman
Judith Condo
Steve Millins
Louis Polsinello
Joyce Lapham
Bob Seward, III
William Ritz, III
2010 Town Attorney - Craig Crist (on retainer)
2011 Town Board
Rick McCabe – Supervisor
Phil Malone
Sue Mangold
Rick Matters
Virginia O’Brien
2011 Planning Board
Dean Kennedy – Chairman
Robert Davey
Donald Panton
Matt Polsinello
William Ritz
Joseph Kelley
Lewis Dubuque
2011 Town Attorney – Joseph
Liccardi
WEll, well well. Looks like the poop perps have had knowledge for a long long time.
ReplyDeleteIf a resolution had to pass each year to pay the fines and penalties for the sewage issue, why did NO Board member, of ANY party, pursue it and push it and bring it to the public? Also, shouldn't the DPW Commissioners be listed as well? They know about the problems, they didn't make an uproar about it. Why? It does not matter who it is on that Board. If you knew about it you should have brought it to the public's attanetion and you should have had the courage to stand up and say, "There is a costly problem in this Town and some are ignoring it but I am not!" Nobody on that Board cared about the taxpayers. they all want the parades and photo ops but NOBODY had the guts to tell the EG residents what was going on. Disgusting!
ReplyDeleteThis can't be a credit to Mangold Malone or old Ginny herself.
ReplyDeleteThis is got to be looking quite bad for them.
As it is themselves and their Dem party that is mostly listed on this list.
But they won't look at it like that. They will find a denial somewhere. Or hush it up like usual.
Shameful!
It seems there was a great deal of information that McCabe did not share, not only with his own board, but the town residents as well. He took it upon himself to hide his extra salary and never said a word about the fines being paid to DEC. Maybe that's why they have the finances structured and screwed up as bad as they are. As long as one person can sign a check, you can do just about anything and not tell anyone. Our Town should require a signature from the majority AND the minority and if there isn't a minority it should be on a resolution for a PUBLIC vote before a disbursement can be made. Allowing politicians to hide payments so it benefits them is about as low as politics get. They aren't spending their own money, it's OURS, and we have a right to know where it's going!
ReplyDeleteWell, it seems the MMO team does not want an ethics rule for several reasons. They would have no choice but not to vote friends and relatives into Town jobs. Ms Mangolds relatives would not be conducting business with the Town and she would have to divulge what Buiness she is a part of in the Town.
ReplyDeleteAlso it looks like our new Supervisor has to get an ok from Ginny before he answers a question or comments as he looks and talks with her before just about every answer he gives.
Johnny T stands up at the last Board meeting and defends their actions on the poop in the Hudson, he's the guy who always criticized the Board for just about anything they do. (oh wait he got a lick of the lollipop as they gave him a job to correct part of the poop problem) is that great or what.
And last did anyone notice how the Supervisor wants to stop public comment by not allowing questions at board meetings on agenda items or give any comments on anything asked. maybe we did not get what we voted for as he and Matters always vote with the majority although they may not agree.
The Dems cannot be blamed for this issue. Allparties are represented on that Town Board and have been for many years. It takes only ONE Town Board member with the guts to stand up and say, "This resolution we are passing is to pay a fine for dumping sewage in the Hudson and will not end until we correct the problem. We will continue to see that fine from the DEC until the Town corrects the issue." That's it--that is all any ONE Board member had to say but, they didn't. They all choose to sit there, march in the parades, take photo ops and accept accolades but not ONE stood up and talked to US, the taxpayers and that includes business owners. Business owners may not live in town but if they own property in town they pay taxes. EVERY person listed above should be ASHAMED of himself/herself, with the exception of Keith Langley because he just got on the Board BUT he is NOT the reason this was brought to light. The authors of this blog and FOILers are the reason taxpayers were finally informed of this issue. EVERY SINGLE BOARD MEMBER LISTED ABOVE OWES EVERY TAXPAYER AN APOLOGY FOR IGNORING US AND WASTING OUR MONEY!!!!! This is AN OFFENSE TO EG TAXPAYERS BY EVERY NAME LISTED ABOVE--EVERY SINGLE ONE. You are all a bunch of self-serving bums that we, EG taxpayers, would be better off without! You take our money literally flush it down the toilet. SHAME ON EVERY SINGLE ONE OF YOU LISTED ABOVE--DEMS, REPUBLICANS, CONS, INDY's!
ReplyDeleteSpecial note to Ginny---it's a bigger problem to dump raw sewage in the Hudson than it is to smoke in the park. BIG PICTURE!
Gigi....I think the fair question is the question that Senator Howard Baker articulated during the Watergate Hearings..."What did the President know, and when did he know it?" What did they know and when did they know it?
ReplyDeleteThe first two Orders on Consent letters were sent to the Town Attorney, of all people. So there is a real question as to who knew what and when. If information was withheld, we need to find that out. If information was withheld from the Planning Board which has the responsibility of determining the environmental impact of development projects - this is a REAL problem. If this was a dirty little secret among the "in group" (a probability which I think is the most believable), we'll find that out.
If the fine checks were written without a Board Resolution (which is certainly possible, remember the stipends issued without Resolutons) it is possible that minority members did not know - at least early on.
Go back and read the summary of this issue on the Post about the Poop in the Hudson. Looks like a conspiracy to me - and who knew what when needs to be determined. I think the culpability is variable and graduated. If you look at what is happening now with regard to Ethics, you can see that even a thin majority can ram something through no matter how right the cause on the other side. If the majority over the last 13 years wanted to continue to poop in the Hudson, they could. The only fault on the minority is that they did not make it public. Maybe they call that "taking the high road."
In any case, the Dem majority was "in charge" during these years, and the responsibility belongs there. And in addition to pooping in the Hudson, they took $2.5 million from Sewer/Water and transferred it to the General Fund and singlehandedly created the East Greenbush Junk bond rating.
Do you think that this may be part of the reason that no more QUESTIONS are allowed at Board Meetings?
I strongly disagree. If you are serving on the Board you should KNOW what fines the Town is paying to the DEC. Ask the comptroller to review, with you, the checks each month. If you want to sit up there, you own the responsibility of where our tax dollars go each month. I am TIRED of hearing, "I didn't know..." Then WHY are you sitting there if you are not reviewing the money with the comptroller?
ReplyDeleteIf you approved a tax increase than you should know where that money goes. The Dem majority was the "majority", and if you want to hang the full weight of the responsibility on their shoulders than you MUST include the Board members that were cross-endorsed by the Dems. My opinion differs from yours, it takes only ONE LEADER to take ownership of the responsibility that goes along with being a Board member and sit with the comptroller and review the checks and bank statements once a month. That's not that difficult to do. For the love of God, many times I would see Board members sitting around Town Hall just chatting and visting...they should have been visiting the comptroller!
How dare they vote for a tax increase after paying those fines and THEN have the NERVE to say, "I didn't know". Look at the checks with the comptroller. Ignorance is no excuse! You approved a tax increase without paying attention to what the money paid for--shame on you!
I am a Conservative--a strict fiscal Conservative and even I am tired of hearing all the Dem bashing. They did not sit on that Board alone. One Board member could have been more mindful of the responsibility of being a Board member. They are each entrusted with our money. It's the same at the Federal level--President blames Congress, Congress blames President...STOP the MADNESS and if you would each pay attention and stop putting your faces and your wordy articles in the Advertiser maybe you would have the time to sit with the comptroller and pay attention to the money you you been elected to be the stewards of.
So, let's see how laws and good sense work around here when it comes to good, sound local governance.
ReplyDeleteRemember the nice lady with the contract McCabe refused to honor?
While that was going on the Town Board passed a noise ordinance and a no smoking in town park law. Stupid because neither is enforced in any way but a citizen with a signed, written contract is ignored. Doesn't make any sense but what does around here?
The ethics code from 1974? Utterly ignored until concerned citizens raised the issue. And now O'Brien, Mangold and Malone are right back in business ignoring their very own Ethics Board. Makes no sense; but what does around here?
Consent decrees on putting raw sewage into the Hudson? What are we on now? Number 6? The first 5 were pretty much ignored until Langley took command. Thank you Keith.
Notary Public requirements and Phil Malone? Phil says screw that. Following those requirements is not for someone with Malone's connections. Phil threatens a state worker. How do you think that state worker feels? Just like the rest of us - screwed over in the name of politics is the answer.
Deputy Police Chief destroys evidence. No big deal - he's a party insider with connections. It will be ignored. Makes so sense if you respect the law and legal processes.
The majority of O'Brien, Mangold and Malone do what they want. They ignore the public in the same way they ignore inconvenient laws. And we, fools that we are, take it.
The Dems have had the advantage here for years. They hold more power. Lets be fair here. If informatiion was witheld from the people why not the Repulicans? WE all know how McCabe ran things and from looking at this it sure seems like it more the Dems then anyone else as far as I am concerned.
ReplyDeleteThis just went up on the Town Website:
ReplyDelete"Please take notice that a special meeting of the East Greenbush Town Board will take place on May 24, 2012 at 5:00 p.m. for the purpose of considering the hiring of two (2) employees in the Department of Public Works."
Dontcha love the language...."for the purpose of considering the hiring?" I figure that the "considering" is already done. And I figure that no one will be able to ask questions either.
Think we're in for another "patronage mugging?"
We had so little snow and ice this past winter that the town and the DPW had to have saved a mountain of OUR money this past winter in reduced or eliminated overtime and salt.
ReplyDeleteI wonder where that money went or is right now?
There was talk at an early CFAC meeting of using any surplus to pay back the water and sewer funds that were illegally borrowed against by the General Fund.
But, like pretty much everything else, the Town Board keeps taxpayers in the dark.
You have to wonder why was this hiring decision not announced 5 business days ago at the regular May Board meeting? Did new critical information suddenly emerge that has forced the Board to act in this Special Meeting? Or, might the Board be more looking to slide one by taxpayers?
I realize this last question is strictly a trust issue. But that is what happens when O'Brien, Mangold and Malone say one thing and so another thing - as they have with their claims about being ethical but rejecting the recommended ethics code. The difference between what they say and what they do breeds suspicion in citizens and we ask more not less questions.
East Greenbush Gadfly will report here on any details that emerge from this "Special Meeting".
Lets see … Ginny O’Brien was on the Town Board back in 1999 and returned in 2010.
ReplyDeletePhil Malone and Sue Mangold came on the Town Board in late 2010.
Danaher was on the Town Board from 2004 – 2010. Cristo from 2006 – 2010. Matters came on the Town Board in 2008.
At the APRIL meeting, the Board authorized hiring Robert Gonzalez to moderate a group seminar for the purpose of determining the short and long range plans for modifications to the Wastewater Treatment Facility, associated pump stations, and infrastructure.
Appears that O’Brien, Malone, Mangold, Langley and Matters are working on it.
Let's see....Sue Mangold and Rich Benko (currently present and accounted for) were regulars on the Planning Board during the time in question. Since the Planning Board is the "gatekeeper" for development in Town and also the entity responsible for making determinations and recommendations related to the SEQRA environmental impact of new development, wouldn't it be reasonable to have an account from them as to how development continued in the context of the five Orders on Consent?
ReplyDeleteOr could it be that we are looking at a classic example of an "organization" making the calls and the appointed troops falling into line?
FLASH.... Bill Lambdin will have an interview with the EPA Federal Administrator related to sewage in the Hudson on the 6:00pm WNYT Channel 13 NEWS.
ReplyDeleteAfter years of following the blogs and attending Town Hall meetings,seeing for myself. I would say Organization making the calls and the appointed falling in line. Looks like Langley is falling in line.
ReplyDeleteHope I am wrong.
I have always wondered what is so hard about running our town?
ReplyDeleteIt seems to be a nice, small town with a very solid tax base. 96 or so employees, mostly in the DPW and PD. All that should be managable one might think.
And yet example after example suggest it has long been run like a circus side show and by one set of baffoons after another. I know that's harsh. I apologize to anyone I have offended - but it sure looks that way after 6 consent decrees and fines over 11 or so years doesn't it?
Why is that?
After some research I have reached a conclusion.
The town is not run for the benefit of the citizens and taxpayers. Instead every decision is filtered through some stupid political mindset that skews and confuses the key decision maker.
These are just examples...
So, Sue Mangold worries more about her family businesses than the town. Phil Malone worries more about his Mom's town hall job than the town. Ginny O'Brien worries more about her husband's town hall job than the town.
I was at the Town Board meeting where Phil Malone took the Supervisor to task for moving Phil's Mom's desk. And I thought to myself how petty, how small minded, how silly to spend the Town Board's and the tax payers time and energy on such an issue.
Maybe I am wrong but the examples keep piling up and that worries me.
I think enough has been said to show culpability rests with both sides. Here's another thing. If people's jobs can be threatened because they speak out, why can't Town officials who may know what is going on be pressured to keep quiet? It has happened ladies and gentlemen.
ReplyDeleteThe only thing to do now is to keep this issue before the public so that there are positive actions towards a resolution.
But just remember -- funds transferred illegally from sewage and water fund amounted to 2 and 1/2 million. We won't know what's been paid back (if anything) until we get the independent audits from 2010 and 2011. Think we'll see a bond resolution on the next election ballot?
Dear 11:55 AM
ReplyDeleteIt has always been my feeling that the CFAC should be reviewing the financial plan to get us out of junk bond status. But I don't think there really is such a plan.
It has always been my feeling that the CFAC should be reviewing the budget transfers required to, sooner or later, repay the water and sewer fund. But I don't think there really is such a plan.
It has always been my feeling that the CFAC should have reviewed and addressed to the Board and the public last year's $500,000 early retirement expense and any claimed savings. But, they didn't.
It has always been my feeling that the CFAC should review and report on the vote tomorrow night to add two additional positions to the town's payroll. But, I doubt that will happen.
It has always been my feeling that the CFAC should make a public report at every month's Town Board meeting. But that has never happened.
And now, having said all that, go to the town's web site and see when was the last CFAC meeting that even had minutes posted.
Are you sensing a pattern here?
On the May pre board meeting agenda there was a resolution to change the Chairman of the CFAC to a paid position in town hall to work on a 5 year capital plan. What? The CFAC cannot do that?
It is probably a coincidence that the Chairman of the CFAC is also a Democratic Party insider and a member of the Town's Democratic Party Committee. I openly acknowledge my cynicism in this regard.
Based strictly on the financial condition of our town and the accomlishments of the CFAC and not on patronage this pending appointment makes no sense. Perhaps there is good news and that is why the pre board resolution did not make to an actual vote. We'll see if it re-emerges for the June Town Board meeting.
Doing sensical things, when it comes to East Greenbush politics rarely, if ever, makes good sense. Just think about agreeing to consent decrees and paying fines over and over again for all these years.
Go figure - I rationally and logically cannot.
Am I right in stating we have been paying the town attorney who has been helping the majority board drag their feet on accepting the Ethics Code drafted by the Ethics Board, an attorney who has advised the Ethics Board in drafting the Ethics Code and the majority board who has refused to accept the Ethics Board drafted Ethics Code. Now we are paying an attorney to step in and handle the poop mess that was not taken care of for many years, plus paying out the DEC. ANOTHER FINE. Also if the problem was taken care of sooner the cost would have been CHEAPER.
ReplyDeleteShake your heads folks, I sure am. Even try to figure out how much of our tax dollars has been wasted on attorneys, board members salaries and fines. I don't mind saying I'm angry at all of this. See what happens when you get inbred people running this town. None of these people are stupid, and they can't say they don't know what they are doing. The ethics refusal and poop have something in common folks, they both smell.
The Town Attorney put on a many months long fight with me to prevent me from getting a copy of a public document that the Committee on Open Government said the public was entitled to.
ReplyDeleteAt a Town Board earier this year that same Town Attorney misrepresented the facts on what that opinion from the Committee on Open Government said.
That same Town Attorney excused himself from Ethics Boards meetings. He told the Ethics Board that he could not work with them because in the future he might have to defend the town on an ethics violation. We, the taxpayers, paid for an outside attorney to work with the Ethics Board.
The Town Attorney, we know now, was a participant in the secret meetings between members of the Town Board and the Ethics Board.
The Town Attorney, as reported at the last Ethics Board meeting has re-written the ethics code recommended by the Ethics Board at the request of O'Brien, Mangold and Malone to conform to their personal preferences in the ethics code. That version of an ethics code remains a town secret and, apparently, will only be shared with the public when the law requires the town to do so which is 10 days prior to the upcoming public hearing.
There has been very recent correspondence between the Ethics Board and the Town Attorney. Those documents have been FOIled for but not received to date.
First Observer, I hope that addresses your questions and concerns.
The Agenda is up on the Town's website for tomorrow's hiring meeting.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.eastgreenbush.org/downloads/cat_view/48-town-board-agendas
I see that over on East Greenbush Talks there is a post blaming Bob Angelini for the sewer issue. Yes siree, the old Vince Foster excuse...when the going gets bad, blame it on the dead guy. Love those democratic traditions.
ReplyDeleteDoes anyone wonder why a special meeting of the Board is needed 8 days after the regular Board last wed. ( OH, I know, lets keep this under the radar as low as possible when hiring another friends son) lets see how Langley and Matters vote this time, especially since we know that this decision had already been made.
DeleteI didn't read it that way at all. It doesn't seem to blame, but rather to explain. "Democratic traditions" ?
DeleteYour cynicism takes away from the topic.
I see how you'd want to cast the comment as an "explanation," but it's much more than that. You seem to be suggesting that Angelini ran up the municipal bond debt and that the next "administration" transferred the cash from Sewer and Water to pay the debt service. Just a couple of things. Since only a portion of the Town's taxpayers pay Sewer/Water taxes, wouldn't it seem a bit unfair (if not illegal) to take the S/W funds which belong to a smaller group of taxpayers and pay off the general bonded debt of the municipality, as you suggest? And shouldn't the debt service on a general municipal obligation be built into the Town's budget? A perfect example of ad hoc governing - otherwise known as "making it up as you go along."
DeleteI wish we were making this stuff up, but we're not.
I think we all wish we were making it up. But this stuff you can't make up.. It comes to this majority board and the Dems so naturally.
DeleteI think that things here have gotten worse over the years and their tends to be more hostile people running town hall.
WE seem to have a few that think that they are owed something from the town.
Those are the ones that need to be exiled out.
WE need to start with a fresh slate. Remove old baggage and move on to newer and better things.
Please!! Say YES..
All special meetings have the same purpose and goal - to slip things by taxpayers. The early retirement option that included spending of $500,000 of our money was mismanaged the same way - special meeting after special meeting at odd hours and with the bare minimum of notice.
ReplyDeleteOne of these positions is unbudgeted. But we did not spend all of this year's snow removal money and rather than use that money intelligently to pay down debt, reduce the tax burden or repay the water and sewer account our illustrious Town Board is creating two additional patronage appointments.
Hell yes, we are getting flim flamed. Again, and yet again and until such a time as we vote out these scoundrels with Ginny O'Brien at the head of the pack.
You know when we hired 3 additional police officers Ginny O'Brien told the public that overtime would be reduced.
ReplyDeleteThe CFAC was asked to look into if, in fact, overtime had been reduced. But CFAC Chairman Pete Stenson - noted Democratic Party insider, refused that request.
I just caught this article in the Times Union. I don't recall anyone commenting on Rick Benko's statement in the article.
ReplyDelete"It is an ongoing and very expensive problem we have been trying to remedy for years," said town Engineer Rich Benko
http://www.timesunion.com/default/article/Town-fined-over-sewer-leak-3586699.php
He is right in saying to fix the problem it is expensive. The article did not mention the inter fund borrowing problem. I don't know the numbers here, but I do know there was a serious problem and the money was taken from the sewage fund and given to the general fund.
How do you remedy a problem, when the money to fix the problem is being nibbled away at? Has our aging infrastructure been properly addressed over the years as we are led to believe in the article, I wonder. Who knew what and when, well tell me how the CFO of the town didn't know about the problems over the years. That's a good starting point. Start at the top and work your way down.
Check out this Editorial in today's TU about a bill pending in the State Lagislature related to "real time" warning to the public about sewage releases into the Hudson.
ReplyDeletehttp://blog.timesunion.com/opinion/so-how%E2%80%99s-the-water/19851/#comments
That was a great article Gadfly. Great, we would get real time knowledge of municipalities dumping raw sewage into the Hudson. Again I get an uncomfortable take on the following statement in the first sentence.
DeleteThe cost of separating all those sewers is so enormous that many communities have simply stopped talking about it. A real-time notification system would at least give people the kind of information they need to decide whether to brave the Hudson or not on a particular day.
Sounds like what's been happening in our town, they stopped talking about it. No talk equals no action taken. Does our town really have a good financial excuse for not addressing the sewage problem in a timely manner?
Well we’re starting to get the “it’s all your fault because you didn’t catch me” routine from the “blogoshills” of the Democratic machine here in Town related to the 13 years of Poop in the Hudson. Look at the list at the top of this Post. It’s a veritable Dem Insider equivalent of the Mormon Tabernacle Choir populating the Town board, Planning board and the Town Attorney job. And they’d have us believe that Danaher, Cristo and Matters could have done some sort of revolution routine and put a stop to the debacle.
ReplyDeleteLet’s just take a look at what is happening before our eyes right now. Majority leader O’Brien and her minions Malone and Mangold just rammed a couple of patronage/nepotism appointments down our throats with reasons that didn't even relate to the appointments. And they are going to mug us on Ethics next month. And this is in the open. What the hell do you think this bunch can accomplish below the radar? They do what they want. And the only way to stop this selfish corruption is to get them out of the majority.
I’m hearing now that some of them still need the Sewer revenue to play with so much that they’ll be floating a plan to get local taxpayers to float a bond issue to create enough infrastructure to take care of southern Rensselaer County, rather than let the County worry about the infrastructure in the future. They actually consider this option after singlehandedly screwing our bond rating to Junk by looting the Sewer and Water Funds in recent years. Take a look at the list. I’d say that names on it should not be in charge of the solutions of this problem. Enough already.
It’s been said that you get the government that you deserve. If you have a political constituency incapable of thinking clearly or is without conscience or moral compass – or just doesn’t care – you have “carte blanche” to operate just about any way you choose.
ReplyDeleteI’ve quoted a couple of comments from the “wholly other” blog to illustrate my point. The first “Anonymous” is positively apoplectic about his/her perception that other municipalities are dumping Poop in the Hudson, and East Greenbush citizens had the audacity to expose the fact that East Greenbush has been doing it for at least 13 years – in violation of the law, by the way. He/she hopes that whistleblowers will be vilified if somebody tries to float a bond issue fund the renovation of the treatment plant. He/she is not upset at all that $2.5 million was taken from the Sewer/Water funds to be spent elsewhere, and not on the Sewer/Water infrastructure. I think it is addressed to Ray and Don.
“You two have nothing ~ NOTHING but distorted points of view. AND when this sewer treatment plant gets the 2million+ renovation - I hope every taxpayer in EGB screams at both of you ALL day , every day !! You morons bother to check with other local municipalities along the Hudson to see that ALMOST EVERY ONE OF THEM DUMPS INTO THE HUDSON AS WELL ??? NO--because that doesn't fit your plan..idiots !”
And…….the second “Anonymous” wants us all to applaud and enjoy benefiting from a series of illegal actions on the part of our municipal government.
“9:38 did you benefit from lower taxes while the surpluses were used?”
This he/she doesn’t understand that Sewer/Water taxes come from a significantly smaller tax base than the property taxes that every property owner pays to support the General Fund. The General Municipal Law is written the way it is to prevent this kind of activity. And this “he/she” seems to say that we should be enjoying this circumvention of the law.
This is how the common life of a community is eroded. Cut corners where you can. Get away with what you can. It’s very discouraging when the message is “go along to get along.” I think it’s a “moral compass” and Ethics issue. And next month we will see the hosing down of a fine Ethics Code to suit the needs of the politicians supported by the likes of the “constituents” quoted above.
Anything goes.
Dear 8:32 PM:
ReplyDeleteAnything goes until citizens show some responsibility and say enough is enough.
That's how we got the stipends stopped. That's how we got something going to stop the pollution of the river.
And if, next year, we vote for more positive change and replace Majority Leader Ginny O'Brien we will see more and more and more positive change.
Don, Ray: my contacts at Riverkeeper, American Rivers (2 environmental groups devoted to keeping our rivers clean), the New York City waste treatment division, and a local riverine biologist all agree: this community, our community, East Greenbush, has the ability to keep this polluting of the Hudson from happening. If it wasn't a big deal then DEC would not be doing what they're doing to us re fines, and EPA would not be concerned either. So the environmental groups and the government agencies responsible are in agreement: this should not have happened. The money was there to address the problem, politicians at Town Hall thought they knew better, and look where we are. I would love to hear the waste water experts in Town lay out their case for why the Town was right in raiding the sewer funds for other things when they could have fixed the problem. Other towns do it? And? Towns and people do stupid, irresponsible things all the time. We should follow suit? I can't tell you how many people have thanked me for bringing this to their attention. Most people do not want to be part of an organization that knowingly injures the environment, especially when they had the means to fix the problem years ago but didn't, for entirely selfish reasons. Am I sorry I FOILED for the documents? Nope. And as the biologist noted when he heard that it took almost NO TIME for those FOILS to come to me, someone at DEC HAD to have wanted this information made public, otherwise they would have stalled until forced by threat of suit to do so. Dwight Jenkins
ReplyDeleteThis is a link that might be informative. Obviously now we contributed to some of those unacceptable sample dates. www.riverkeeper.org/water-quality/locations/Albany-rensselaer/Dunn-memorial-bridge/ . Dwight
ReplyDeleteDwight..what is so discouraging in all this is that some of us have been getting calls with the message to "cool it" and let the wheeler-dealers address the problem as only they know how. My view is that the wheeler-dealers haven't got a clue and have successfully gotten us into this mess in the first place. These wheeler-dealers have both "D's" and "R's" on their foreheads. They seem to have made a "political" issue out of something which should not be politicized at all. Just jockeying for power.
ReplyDeleteCan't anybody do what is right, just because it is right?? The Board in 2000 could have addressed the problem, but chose to ignore it. Those names are on the list and they should be held accountable. And then their successors chose to loot the S/W funds for other purposes - like stipends, illegal hirings and an MOA. And they just can't abide the fact that a whole bunch of folks know about that now.
Agreed, Don. But if we can get a group like the above to help out, now we're in a whole other realm. Now you are talking eyes on the ground, political heft, investigative powers, legal prowess....They are interested. That's why I've given up on the Town Hallers- they don't care. "Cool it?" Last I checked the Town wasn't' paying me, so screw them. Dwight
ReplyDeleteIs it possible that the "cool it" calls are because Supervisor Langley is planning on dropping a "big load" of tax increases on the working people of the Town to pay for his sewer plan.
ReplyDeleteWhy not call a public hearing to let the public know what is going on? After all it is the taxpayers that will have to pay for it.
What are Langley and his "wheeler-dealers" trying to hide. Does he think his "poop" doesn't stink. Dwight is right, let's get this issue out in the open. We are talking about the health of our kids and their kids you know. Enough is enough!!
ReplyDeleteCouldn't we just turn control of our poop to the County? Obviously WE can't manage it, so why not let them do it. They seem to do better with budgets and accountability than we do. When I FOIL them I get documents, when I write Jimino I get a response. What more can a citizen want? Besides, haven't they expressed an interest and ability to safely handle it? It would be one less thing for us to worry about. Is there a down side to this? Serious question, not sarcasm. Maybe there is and I don't know about it. Dwight
ReplyDeleteDwight...I'm going to quote a portion of the Post which kicked this topic off on The Gadfly. I think it illustrates that "politics," which in this case just might mean access to MONEY - over the table and under the table - drives much of what has happened in this matter. Wouldn't be surprised if it is driving current plans. Development has been a "cash cow" for local politicians. I wouldn't be surprised if the local "R's" and "D's" are working on something to keep the cash local so they can share it. Of course the local taxpayer would be on the hook to pay dearly for that solution.
ReplyDeleteIf there is a reason for NOT transferring the whole thing to the County which isn't "political," I think the locals have a responsibility to immediately state it. How about it Mr. Langley, Ms. OBrien????
"East Greenbush has been over capacity
They knew it
They didn't care
They didn't want to give up the approval rights for development to the County
Still don't
The sewer fund makes money
Cheaper to pay the fine than give up the cash flow that funded other departments
Status quo was easier
They didn't care
They paid the fine
They kept approving projects
Everyone made money
They are still approving projects
An issue was made of this a few years ago and the matter was ignored.. They can not afford to update the facility to handle the capacity. They can not bifurcate the system and split treatment with the county, it's an all or nothing process. They don't want to give up the approval right for projects to the County because that is where the power is. If you can grant approvals, you can bring in donations. If the County has a say, it takes power away from the Town and donations are split between the Town and County and two different parties. It's that simple.
The sewer fund makes money and has been where they have been taking money to fund their underfunded budget lines in the General Fund. They owe it over a million dollars. The right thing to do is to shift the control and treatment of our effluent over to the county. Sewers can more easily be expanded out to Schodack and beyond if you do. The Dems in EG haven't wanted to do that. They should put a stop to Carver Court right now because they want to go to apartments and don't have the capacity to treat the additional effluent. Development should by right come to a stop, make the switch and go from there. It isn't an over night solution thought because there is no switch to flip. They have to build the connector from our plant to the County system which will take more than a couple of months.
They never disclosed fines or told the public about them, they just paid it because it was easier."
I don't believe Langley is hiding anything, in fact, I doubt he is capable. Not unlike Obama, he inherited a mess from Mr. McCabe who hid an awful lot. To his credit, Mr. Langley is addressing this issue head on, it never advanced at all under the previous administrations. Also, the planning board has a certain amount of responsibility, which includes Sue Mangold who sat there year after year and participated in approving projects that were reviewed by their engineers. She had to know they were over capacity, and voted to approve and push through projects we couldn't handle.
ReplyDeleteThe majority will try to pin this on Langley, but if he want to hide from it, he could have by not sending a letter to the County. The majority has a difficult time dealing with inconvenient truths. It is still early in Langley's term, he is still learning the ropes. The majority should have taken the lead on this and didn't. Thank God for Ray, Don and Dwight who don't seem to be politicizing this, is just something that needs to be dealt with. My bet is that Langley will be more willing to listen than his predecessor. Good for tax payers, not so good for the majority who will try to spin their solution so it benefits them, not us!
To Anonymous 2:45PM What did you mean when you wrote that "...if he (Mr Langley) want (sic) to hide from it, he could have by not sending a letter to the County."
ReplyDeletePlease elaborate. What is the subject of this letter? What issues does it address? Does it propose a way to make the Poop situation better?
I haven't seen the letter, but was told that town engineers and the board sent a proposal to the County to fix the problem as part of the requirement to come up with a solution for DEC within the 120 day time frame. It's the kind of thing that wasn't done before and ignoring it was easier than addressing it. The board majority is likely just going through the motions, but the fact that the issue is being addressed is significant and Supervisor Langley should be commended for it.
ReplyDeleteWhy should Supervisor Langley be commended for an unseen proposal sent by the town engineers and the board to the County? Sure would be easier to commend him if we knew what impact the proposal would have on the taxpayers pockets.
ReplyDeleteThe clock is ticking on the DEC 120 day time frame and the alarm bell has rung on the pollution the Town is dumping in the Hudson.
ReplyDeleteIt is time for Mr. Langley to exhibit some principled decision making to protect our fragile ecosystem. He needs to either lead or get out of the way.
What did we do with the money we got not long ago for sewer improvements? From the 3/12/11 piece I wrote for East Greenbush Prays (Lent is Upon Us) it is clear that we financed the six-million-dollar poop man, but who is he and what has he done for us? Add that to the 2.5 million that was taken from the Water/Sewer funds and you're looking at a lot of money that is...where?
ReplyDeleteEG Addict-
ReplyDeleteDo you think Mr. Langley is aware of the identity of the six-million-dollar poop man?
Is Mr. Langley aware? I have no idea. My communications with the Supervisor have already been surpassed in length by the typing of this response. I can honestly say I had far more face time with the last Supe than this one. I might be at 5 minutes in 5 months? As I said, I have given up on the normal channels- all you get is lies and political B.S. Go straight to the source. FOIL. Think I'll FOIL where that 6,000,000 in sewer bonding went. If I don't get answer from Town Hall there's always other avenues. With so many violations of Consent Orders it seems logical to infer that the money did not go toward sewer fixes. Maybe I'm wrong. I don't care if I'm wrong. Dwight
ReplyDeleteGo to You Tube and view Part II of the Water/Sewer rate meeting at Town Hall, conducted by engineering contractor Hank Labarba, 1/1911. It's a good presentation as far as it goes, but as I listened to where the money went it didn't add up to $6 million. We did sewage tank fixing, UV treatment, Hampton Manor/ Couse water infiltration, but I never heard that the money was all spent. I heard about 1/2 of it gone, maybe 2/3? That still leaves a lot of money that went....where?
ReplyDeleteHere's the link:
Deletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBc0X4vhq_0&feature=youtube_gdata_player
To Anonymous June 3, 2012 6:45AM Have you been given any further inside information about the letter you were told about that was sent to the County by the Board addressing the sewer issue?
ReplyDeleteDwight, maybe some of the money is allocated for future projects, that Hank Labarba said may be presented in June. How do you track 6 Million dollars? Too bad Nate Hans vanished, he put out a lot of good information. It is duly noted though, that you, Don and Ray are a fantastic trio. Much better than another trio I am familiar with.
ReplyDeleteI like what I read, our elected officials should just do the right thing, so simple. Too bad stinking politics and conflicts of interest get in the way. I wonder how much the attorney, who is addressing the poop issue, is getting paid for saving the town $5,000.00. I would not expect her fee to be cheap.
Dwight, I so enjoyed your posts on EG Prays, they were very enlightening. Jesus exposed the pretenders of His day, it's time for the pretenders in our day to be fully exposed for what they really are. I believe Jesus said, they are like white washed tombs, which may appear beautiful outwardly, but are full of dead men's bones and rotting flesh.
More than the River stinks.
First Observer, you might be absolutely, entirely right. In fact, I hope you are. But part of our job as citizens, not subjects, is to ask questions and hold officials accountable with our money. That is why I filed a FOIL request to see where the money went and how much is left. Dwight
ReplyDeleteNew discovery on my part: the Rensselaer Co. Water and Sewer Authority actually controls all the sewer infrastructure bonding and spending. If you go to their web site at discoverrensselaer.com/Econ/AboutRCWSA.aspx you will see a whole series of year by year resolutions and approval for bids/payments relating to our $6 million bonding for sewer repairs. The town of EG is not outwardly involved. So...if I left anyone with the impression that we got $6mil dumped in our laps and now it is gone? Forget it. Hank Labarba, overseeing the project, it seems, has to submit invoices for approval to get things paid as they come up, including those for his own company, which seems a little odd since he is the Authority's Engineering Consultant too, but maybe that's fine, I don't know. The point is that we basically got a line of credit from the Sewer/Water Authority to make improvements and then they basically babysit us along the way to make it gets done by the lowest bidder. Sound right?
ReplyDeleteThat last comment was mine, by the way. Forgot to put my name on it. Dwight.
ReplyDeleteDwight, wasn't some of that money used for building the new water tanks up on Grandview?
ReplyDeleteYes.
DeleteAnon, not Dwight
Yes, you can see the tanks invoices mixed in there with the pumps and UV that Hank talked about in his power point presentation early last year. Tanks was water though, separate problem, separate money, and not the cause of polluting the Hudson. Dwight
ReplyDeleteI'm confused.
ReplyDeleteSince Hank Labarba is the paid consultant for BOTH the Town AND the County Sewer Authority will he be negotiating with himself on the Langley sewer proposal?
Double Honey, love the name, but don't know the answer. Funny question though. Dwight
ReplyDeleteHey, just throwing it out there for discussion: Section 1199 Q of New York's PBA Law says the following under Interest in Contracts Prohibited: "It shall be a misdemeanor for any member of the governing body or any officer, agent, servant or employee of the Authority to be in any way or manner interested, directly or indirectly, in the furnishing of work, materials, supplies or labor, or in any contract therefor which the Authority is empowered to make." It does make Double Honey Dipper's question a little more focused. Again, maybe it's fine the way things are- it just looks funny at this point. Again, hope I'm wrong. Dwight
ReplyDeleteDwight.
ReplyDeleteBINGO!!!
Not that it makes any difference at this point, but wasn't Labarba and Angelini partners just before he became supervisor?
ReplyDeleteThe problem is Labarba is doing all the majorities dirty work. I wonder who's cart he road in at the Democratic fund raising golf outing yesterday?
ReplyDeleteHe is being paid to perform as a consulting engineer for our sewer system. We also have a full time town engineer. I guess the simple question is, why has DEC shut us down completely?
We are paying 2 professional engineers, so which one is professionally responsible? Are they licensed like other professionals must be in NYS.?
Anonymous 6/9/12 @ 12:38- What do you mean when you ask "...why has the DEC shut us down completely?" Is there a story here we don't know about, or you talking metaphorically, as in the DEC giving us gadflies and whiners the stiff-arm? At any rate, it was great fun to open the Times Union today and see that we made the news (op-ed section, letter from Joe Martens, Commissioner of DEC) as Hudson River polluters, right alongside Troy and Rensselaer. The Times Union failed to give up proper credit as polluters in their last news story. Looks like Joe is doing some damage control in his letter, but his explanation is polluted, as far as I'm concerned. They have known for more than a decade that the Consent Orders were as worthless as the paper they were printed on and as easily dismissed as the small fines we wrote to DEC in exchange for their continual violations. But at least it looks like we are finally on the way to a resolution of the problem. Thanks for nothing, DEC, because in fact you had nothing to do with it- things only got attention when DEC got attention- the wrong kind. Only some great reporting by Bill Lambdin, especially when he showed up at that EPA dog and pony show down by the river, brought us to where we are at. A swimmable Hudson? We might just get there someday despite the best efforts of East Greenbush officials, Rensselaer County Sewer and Water officials, and State DEC officials to minimize or hide the problem altogether. A lot of people made a lot money on it while it lasted... Dwight
ReplyDeleteEven now the County Legislature is taking up Resolution P/291/12 at their meeting tonight in Troy. At the heart of the resolution is an exploration of the benefits to a joint agreement with East Greenbush for handling our sewage, since we don't do so good at it. Who knows, maybe by this time next year we'll be saving money AND keeping pollutants out of the Hudson. It could happen. Or not. Dwight Jenkins
ReplyDeleteGlad to see that happening. It appears that something like it was in the works back in 2008 when the County Authority bonded $6 million for the benefit of East Greenbush sewer infrastructure. There were 3 resolutions passed by the EG Board in 2008 which seem to relate to what Dwight is referring to. I posted the comment below back in April on the earlier Poop thread:
ReplyDelete"I'm looking at three Town Board Resolutions (47-2008, 48-2008 and 59-2008) which relate to water and sewer construction and services agreements with Rensselaer City and County and the City of Troy. If I am reading these documents correctly, and I am open to correction in this matter, the Board already gave the Supervisor the requisite authority. These resolutions are available on the Town's website in the minutes for the April 9, 2008 and the May 14, 2008 meetings. Here are the last three resolves from 59-2008, dated May 14, 2008:
"RESOLVED, that the Supervisor is authorized to execute a Sewer Service Agreement and a Water Service Agreement in substantially the forms annexed hereto as Exhibits A and B, respectively, and it is further
RESOLVED, the the Supervisor is authorized to execute a Water Facilities Agreement and a Sewerage Facilities Operating Agreement, in substantially the forms annexed hereto as Exhibits C and D, respectively, and it is further
RESOLVED that the Town Board hereby reaffirms Resolution 47-2008 and 48-2008."
From what I am able to discover, the Sewer stuff in these resolutions never happened. Some of the Water stuff may have.
If the authorization was provided, why wasn't it accomplished? I have a sinking feeling though (remember the foggy information about what Rensselaer was supposed to owe East Greenbush related to water?) that something got seriously lost in execution. Maybe it was in the "details" of Exhibits A, B, C, and D. I have the uncomfortable feeling that there is something in the "control over development" and all the "linkages, mechanisms and interdigitations" that go with that, that put the skids on some of the above. After all, everything has to be submitted to the politics meat-grinder."
I have one simple question - Why wasn't this addressed in 2008? Taxpayers have been paying debt service on those bonds since 2008, and that money doesn't seem to have been put to work. If I'm reading this wrong, somebody please explain. If I'm reading it correctly, we deserve some accountability. I think the annual debt service is in the area of $111,000, so we're pushing a half a million out the door for no performance on the bonding.
Am I cionfusing issues? Wasn't the purpose of all or some of those resolutions to (finally) get Rensselaer to re-pay the money - whatever the heck Supervisor Rick McCabe claimed was the correct amount?
ReplyDeleteI remember then Supervisor McCabe banting about several different amount we were owed by Rennselaer.
I thought that, perhaps, one or more of those resolutions was to approve the contract that had been ignored or negleted by the McCabe administration because there was some "wink and a nod" relationship and deal with Rensselaer?
Heaven only knows that is the town were just run in a business like manner, if the people making decisions were open and honest and if there were halfway decent communications with the taxpayers who foot the bill for all this incompetance we might not need to blog about it!
You simple motherfuckers can't even spell.
ReplyDeleteThis is the mindset of what we are up against, ladies and gentlemen. Do you remember the mention of "happy pills" and the other mindless attacks? I haven't heard ONE cogent reasoned argument from any of the bomb-throwers who oppose constructive change in our Town. It's all wise-ass wise cracks from behind the 6th grade backstop - accompanied by adolescent giggles.
ReplyDeleteThis is the rooting section to the bunch that has been running this Town into the ground for over a decade. Any attempt to improve responsibility, accountability and openness in this Town is met by catcalls - not intelligent discourse from this bunch.
Pretty harsh stuff. I'm surprised you actually printed it, but not surprised by the mindset that generated it. We've been down this road countless times over the last few years: attack the messenger because you can't prevail against the simple logic of simply doing the right thing. It's sad. I'm glad you put it out there unvarnished so that the rest of the readers can see where the opposition is coming from. Dwight ( hope I spelled everything right)
ReplyDeleteGood for you Don! These people have taken advantage of this town for far too long. They treat it like it's their own private club. They are complaining about losing Laura on the other site, but they forget she was a big part of the problem for years. She helped them get away with a lot of their excess. They just don't care about the rest of us paying taxes, as long as they profit! The language from them is no surprise. If you can't think of something smart to say, curse!
ReplyDeleteLaura should be gone, it's the price you have to pay when the town is trying to get it's house in order. There are a few more that should go too. Shame on anyone who had a part in making McCabe's stipends happen. Btw, friendships have nothing to do with correctly running a town. The status quo was evident of that very fact.
ReplyDeleteAlso, anyone who is giving Langley a hard time, when he is trying to do the right thing for the town, is against the taxpayers and should be fired.
I'm still waiting for an intelligent argument, explaining why the policies of MOM are good for the town.
Any word on how Hank LaBarba's self negotiations are going on the secret Langley sewer proposal?
ReplyDeleteDear Anonymous 4:08 PM
ReplyDeleteQuestion-
Hank LaBarba (representing the Town) vs. Hank LaBarba (representing the County)... Who wins?
Answer-
Hank LaBarba
How can LaBarba win, now that we and the Supervisor should know, LaBarba should not be financially benefiting at the town level? Who is the person(s) responsible for addressing this? I hope the town govt. can get it's act together and properly address this issue.
ReplyDeleteIs LaBarba in violation of Section 1199 Q of New York State PBA Law? Shouldn't the esteem town attorney be available for counsel on this matter? Oh yeah, I just woke up, I had this funny dream that......
If there's a problem with this arrangement I'm not sure it's the Town's responsibility as much as it is the Sewer and Water Authority's responsibility. It's written into their law. I've sent e-mails to the Authority counsel as well as the County Executive but...no word back yet. Maybe they're just thinking really hard on it, or maybe it really is just fine as is. I just brought it to their attention, asked if I was reading their own law correctly, blah blah. I guess next will be the County majority head, then up the chain of command until somebody tells me one way or another. Maybe eventually Mr. Obama will make the call, I don't know. Somebody has to. Dwight
ReplyDeleteFor those keeping track, there was a recent meeting of the Water and Sewer Authority dated June 12 at which EG sewer problems were discussed in detail, along with the fixes that are being made as we speak. You can view the minutes at www.discoverrensselaer.com/Libraries/RCWSA_Resolutions_2012/Status_Report_and_AgendaJun12.sflb.ashx
ReplyDeleteIt is encouraging to see that we finally have some sense of urgency to get this thing fixed. Seems to be simple enough, reading through the report. The contracts have been awarded quickly, the work is proceeding quickly, and one would think we have known for quite a while what was needed to make this problem go away. We just didn't. Why now? From the report: This program has become crucial to the Town in order to allow DEC to consider lifting a sewer connection moratorium. Each project goal is generate (sic, lest I be accused of inability to spell...) sewer capacity which will allow future connections...
The report was prepared by H.V. LaBarba, PE, Consultant to the Authority. Please review the article. It is concise and informative. Dwight
Dwight:
ReplyDeleteThanks for providing the information about the Sewer Status Report. It is indeed very informative and actually somewhat interesting as well.
Be well,
Tom
5:25 AM
ReplyDeleteI wonder if this recent flurry of activity by Mr. LaBarba had anything to do with the recent meeting Sue Mangold had with the REGENERON people at their offices about their immediate need for increased Sewer flow capacity from the Town of East Greenbush?
Well let's see.....Regeneron is on the "notable clients" list at Martin Electric where Sue Mangold appears to be a Corporate Officer. What's good for Regeneron has to be good for Martin Electric. If connections to the sewer system are scarce or limited, it might be nice to have a close connection to those in charge of rationing connections or capacity. Must be nice for Regeneron AND Martin.
Deleteactually she's listed as Human Resources and what if she is an officer
Deletewould you deny Regeneron permits on the possibility that Geo. Martin gets a job
NG turned away what's now Glogal Foundries
Actually, it looks like Martin is one of the Hart family businesses with which Ms. Mangold is involved. And no I wouldn't deny Regeneron permits on the possibility that Martin gets a job. The issues is whether the playing field is level and the competitive advantage is not skewed by what is called "connections." Its the thing that makes some people "more equal than others." It's the thing that gives the appearance that someone could be using their position to provide unwarranted privilege or exemption to others. It's the kind of thing that makes a strong argument that we'd be better off if we didn't have to contend with Ms. Mangold contending with potential conflict of interest.
DeleteDo you think there are other interests in EG which would give a lot to have that kind of "connection" to further their business or personal interests? What processes are in place to insure that the playing field is level? One of those things is supposed to be a Code of Ethics with financial disclosure provisions. Why do you think that Ms. Mangold doesn't want an Ethics Code with financial disclosure provisions? Enough dots to connect yet?
At least Ms. Mangold is showing some leadership on this, unlike "Silent" Keith Langley!
DeleteIt looks like it's possible that in this case what's good for Regeneron and George Martin is good for the Town as well.
Maybe it makes sense to have someone with varied business experiences and a good education leading the Town.
If Mangold could possibly agree to a strong Code of Ethics, she might be just the type of candidate that the Real Republicans could support for Supervisor in 2015.
Something to think about...
You've got a good point. The key is an Ethics Code that provides enough transparency and accountability that there is simply NO CHANCE of double dealing and corruption. So far, we have seen nothing but skittishness about such a code from Mangold, O'Brien and Malone. Far from embracing these things, they've shown just the opposite. I think we'd be better off without people in government with these kinds of conflicts. Fact is that Regeneron and Martin could flourish in EG without Ms. Mangold in office, and we wouldn't have to contend with her contending with the potential conflict of interest. Right now it seems that she's the reason that the Ethics Code proposed by the Ethics Board has been rejected by the Board majority.
DeleteTo Anonymous 10;06 AM
DeleteWe can still dream can't we?
Regeneron and Martin could also flourish in EG if Ms. Mangold were to support a Strong Ethics Code.
Think of the terrific example Ms. Mangold would be setting if she were to reconsider her opposition to a Strong Code and throw her support behind the Rick Matters Ethic reso.
If she were to do that I bet she would get a bunch of Real Republican votes.
I'd be careful abut flying off into the sunset on a fantasy. Ms. Mangold would need to do some things to clean up the record she has already created in her support of the majority. She just helped pork up the DPW payroll didn't she? She did mis-represent the content of the UHY audit before it was released, didn't she? She is, after all, a participant in the McCabe/O'Brien legacy. Hardly a "clean Jean." Lots of work yet, but maybe a start.
Delete9:43 PM
ReplyDeleteI wonder if this might be an appropriate avenue for inquiry at this Wednesday's Public Hearing on Ethics. If only the Supe would permit questions???
Dear 9:48 AM:
ReplyDeleteIt is widely believed that, in point of fact, Ms. Mangold is at the very heart of the majority's opposition to the ethics code recommended by the Ethics Board. Specifically, Ms. Mangold is believed to be adamently opposed to the finance disclosure recommended to protect the public's inerests by the Ethics Board.
Ms. Mangold's family, to their credit, own many business in the area. A number of those businesses do a lot of business with the town and on projects that come before the Town Board for a vote. There are believed to be some 14 different Hart family businesses.
Ms. Mangold is a partner and part of owner of one or more of those businesses.
If the ethics code recommended by the Ethics Board were made law Ms. Mangold would be required to share with the public all the family businesses she has a financial interest in. For reasons that only lead to suspicion and concern Ms. Mangold will positively not agree to do that. One can speculate as to why but the interconnections between the town's business and the family businesses seems obvious.
I am sure it is difficult for Ms. Mangold to find the ethical place where she can use her position on the Town Board to her family's business advantage while at the same time being perceived as representing the public's interests.
For me, as long as Ms. Mangold plays hardball on the ethics code recommended by the Ethics Board she will live under a cloud of doubt and concern.
Dear 10:16 AM
DeleteAgreed!
I believe it is imperative that Ms. Mangold needs to support a disclosure based Ethics Code in order to garner significant Real Republican support.
Again, if she were to do the right thing by supporting the Matters Ethics reso, she would certainly stand out as an elected official who is willing to listen to the concerns of the people.
God Bless America!!
By the way!
ReplyDeleteWhy haven't Chris DeFruscio and Sean Mulvey as the self appointed "leaders" of the Town Republican Party been "leading" the charge in favor of the Rick Matters Ethics Reso?
I hope they plan to make statements at tonite's Ethics Board Meeting at 7pm in Town Hall. I believe that the Ethics Chairman, Jack Conway, will even allow them to ask a question or two.
If they are unable to be there tonite maybe they can make their statements at tomorrow's Ethics Public Hearing in Town Hall at 6:30pm. I'm not sure if the Supe will allow them to ask any questions at that one though.
Slightly back on topic, just wanted folks to know that I sent County Majority Leader Reid essentially the same e-mail that I sent to the Water and Sewer Authority Counsel and to Ms. Jimino. Will I get a response? Hell no. That's okay, I also FOIL'ed the County for Sewer documents and will share when I get a response. Now back to our regularly scheduled Sue-Bash. Carry on, maggots. Dwight
ReplyDeleteDwight, you are our hero. Nobody carries on as well as you.
DeleteSecret dumps of EG waste into the Hudson must be reported:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.timesunion.com/local/article/No-swim-alert-for-sewage-spills-3653979.php
Required within 4 hours.
Nice. Good to know. Something else good to know: just found out that the 2010 AUD which was so long overdue and fixated on has in fact been filed with OSC... Since April! Who knew! Well, the Town did, but they didn't tell anyone publicly, or put it on the Town web site (comptroller section, I would guess?). At any rate, as soon as I or anyone I have shared it with can pull some data from it we'll post it here, hopefully, with the permission of the Gadfly, of course. I only glanced it briefly but already there are some fascinating line items. As expected, scrap revenue went up about ten-fold, as expected. That means that money was either hidden in other lines in years past or we had a sweetheart deal with a scap dealer. Or maybe something else. Never took accounting. Dwight
ReplyDeleteIf anyone wants a copy of the 2010 AUD, send me an e-mail at eggadfly@yahoo.com and I'll send you the .pdf file.
ReplyDeleteAfter a rather lengthy delay the Planning Board Minutes are updated on the Town Document Download site. Interestingly, the 5/23/12 minutes reflect a cover-our-ass conversation initiated by the Chair of the Board in which he asked about our Consent Order problem. What we heard was that it is a complex problem, very expensive to repair, we're not the only town dumping sewage, and that we haven't been ignoring the problem. What we didn't hear was a reason for the transfer of sewer funds to the general fund, when we could have and should have used those sewer fund surpluses to address the problem. Of course, we also got more than $6 million dollars in bonding from the County Water and Sewer authority back in 2008 to fix the problem, but we haven't used much of that for anything. It sits there while we pay more than a hundred thousand dollars a month in debt service for unfinished projects that would fix the problem. Look how quickly we spent the $6 million or so bond for water repairs: we banged out infrastructure updates and new water tanks in no time. That was a job well done. As for the sewer? No, this smells like a fight over power, influence, and money, hence the delays, hence the unacted upon consent orders, hence the State is finally pissed enough to jack up the fines to a level where they hurt, hence a connected lawyer got a nice payday to lower those fines somewhat,hence we got a bullshit answer on 5/23/12 in response to a staged question. Go read it for yourself if you don't believe me. Yes, we have problems with aging pipes and rainstorms. NO SHIT! That's what the sewer surplus and the hefty bond were to have fixed by now! Dwight Jenkins
ReplyDeleteDwight:
ReplyDeleteFor a primer on public/private "power, influence and money" it just doesn't get any better than the movie "Chinatown" (1974) directed by Roman Polanski and starring Jack Nicholson, Faye Dunaway and the incomparable John Huston.
The story is set back in 1930's Los Angeles but I believe it has some current relevance.
Be well,
Tom