Keith Langley won't attend. He already knows it ALL...just ask him. He will send resident drone "Mr. Ethics" Gilbert but he'll be wearing his wannabe Depty Supr. hat and attempting to argue every point, albeit unsuccessfully. He may send others but the "friends" of Langley who are willing to give up a Wednesday evening in front of the TV for him are dwindling in number. Most of the town board members won't view this as an opportunity to learn something but more as a criticism of their performance, so they won't give SEG, who they believe is behind it, the satisfaction of attending. This is no different than the casino forums that were held at the library. None of them (except CP Matters) attended those either. Shame.
So then how many governmental policy calls did she make when she was not a legal "elector" in the Town? The last big one I remember was to kill the sewer rate study a couple of weeks ago.
Let's not forget Supervisor Langley and Supervisor wanna be Malone also voted to kill the sewer rate study. At least now, if Matters and DiMartino hold firm, Langley and Malone won't be able to push forward a sewer fee increase without a completed study. They now hold the leverage, since a 2-2 vote is not enough for Langley and Malone to impose any fee increase without a completed rate study.
Langley will be pushing for a replacement for Mangold. If he thinks there's a chance of that happening this year, he's dreaming. The person she screwed most of all by resigning was Casino Keith. Thanks, Sue!
This forum is what I love about the New East Greenbush. Residents have questions - so they are asking them, and they want answers - so they are getting them. No more waiting for blank stares from elected officials.
Can the Town Board take legal action against Toni Murphy and Rick McCabe for the thousands of dollars they both illegally accepted per the OSC report. Shouldn't Toni Murphys illegal acceptance of tax payers money disallow her from running for her public office this year. If Langley won't address the problem Mary Ann Matters should take control of the situation and back what's left of this board into a corner with a resolution.
DiMartino and matters should introduce a resolution to recoup the illegal stipends paid to McCabe and Murphy. Let's get Langley's and Malone's votes on the record for all the residents to see. Langley and Malone should finally be held accountable. No Langley or Malone in 2015!!
Not gonna happen 821. Murphy was pushing the Dems to endorse Langley at last Monday's committee meeting. Guess Langley's anti women attitudes don't bother her.
I was hoping to see Supervisor Langley at today's opening day ceremonies for the EG baseball & softball leagues to show support for the children of our community, but unfortunately he wasn't in attendance. 8:00 on a Saturday must be too early for Casino Keith to rise and shine, but Poorman and DiMartino made it there bright and early, along with Jimino and others. Maybe he went rainbow trout fishing at the town park instead?
At least he had the class not to show. The County contingent which tried to ram a casino down our throats a year ago has now become "family oriented" and shows up at ball games. They should all go "play in the street."
News flash Gadfly, Mike Poorman, and Deb DiMartino were strong advocates for the casino and can't stand any of you and your group.DiMartino had Corellis riding around in the town truck putting casino signs all over town on town time as well as his own time with the town truck.
Mary Ann Matters was also at the ball field bright and early yesterday but the announcer didn't announce her name... just saying. It looked like she was having it out with that county guy, the big dufus with the camera. He was probably pressuring her to get back with McLangley now that Mangold has walked away without so much as a goodbye and thank you. You're welcome, Sue! Have a nice life! The dems told McLangley "NO" to cross-endorsement and now he's scrambling to regroup with those he he turned his back on. DeF has disappeared, which is his M-O whenever things look bleak. Danny-boy is on deck and is sure to be spending every minute of his days on town time working to get boss hog re-elected. The dems see a chance to run fresh faces and maybe win. Good luck with that, Tuff-guy. There are forces coming the likes of which you've never seen. Prepare to be amazed.
Question? In 2017, will county legislators who bamboozled our thin-skinned, wide-eyed Supervisor into supporting a big box casino in small town, USA be held accountable at election time for their actions or will all be forgotten by then? One of those legislators is Phil Danaher who has had a hand in more than just casino follies in our town. Cowboy Rob Bayley was also hugely supportive of a casino in EG. He lives in Poestinkill, so what does he care? Leon Fiacco and cousin Danny were also huge supporters of the casino.
Our Supervisor could not even fake being a decent politician who cares about our town and make an appearance at the Take Back the Night Walk that took place less than a mile from Town Hall. It should be noted Phil Malone could not even make an appearance as well. My guess, Keith had the sniffles and Phil couldn't decide if he could make it an entire lap around the lake without having to use the potty.
8:48 & 9;12 - The county representatives and their handler (guy with camera) will need to.answer to voters in two years. This year we will have honest, concerned, intelligent, experienced candidates for local office and we must focus on supporting them in every way we can. This includes staying focused on the local race and what we can do right now. East Greenbush is on the brink of something big.
This is one of several comments I've gotten which serve to indicate that the conspiracy hatched by the two machines and their insiders to foist a big box casino on a quiet bedroom/rural community has backfired and they are all as nervous as hell. They didn't do their homework and still are living in the bubble which reinforces the concept that they can wheel and deal their way to survival. We started saying a few years ago that the old ways were OVER, but got back "that's the way we've always done it." Thompson Hill, casino and Cooper Ave. are the latest iterations of the perennial mischief. Gotta love it. You just can't make this stuff up.
11:08 Your post is so indecipherable, we're wondering if our resident illiterate is knocking on the GF's door. Remember, 11:08, spelling and punctuation really do matter!
Gadfly, their is more than enough bad news that will be used to stomp BOTH machines to death this year, and they're sweating bullets because of it. Langley's trial run in the "majority," that he said he needed to succeed, crashed and burned in a big way. He's over. Even people in his own camp are eyeballing his job! With Mangold's departure, Langley's chickens have come home to roost. His goose is cooked for the rest of the year. It's Eddie "ethics chairman" Gilbert who calls you "Donnie." He doubles as the resident wanna be Deputy Supervisor and infamous republican drone all at the same time. He rears his ugly head when he starts getting really nervous for boss hog. Just the fact that he's reading and responding to GF posts PROVES that they're nervous as hell. Only six more months to go, boys, and then poof, you're gone.
Please remember everyone that the unpredictable variable in every election is the voting public. It's a lot of work to educate them, help them understand and appreciate what is going on and alter their voting patterns, which is more often than not... NOT voting. You need numbers and you need people who understand what is going on. The easiest group of people to motivate to vote are those who benefit from the system the way it is. Town workers and their families will be at the polls and vote the way that benefits them most. They just don't care about fixing a broken system. As long as they can "get by" week to week, they just don't have a long term vision and you can't change their minds. Truth is, both dems and repubs are counting on that. You need a whole new contingent of voters willing to come up and support a new direction. Good luck!
1:38 p.m. Do you mean like the "whole new contingent" of citizens who woke-up last year to the reality of greedy, self-serving, arrogant town, planning and zoning board members and then banded together to defeat BIG money business interest in EG? The Gaming Commission Siting Board specifically referenced the "highly organized" opposition to the project as one of the reasons EG was not chosen. The same people who organized the defeat of the casino are working to organize a whole new party of citizens who have not forgotten the boarish bunch that proceeded so unyieldingly with ramming something so completely controversial down our throats that it caused disruption and anxiety in our lives that compares to nothing else we've ever experienced while living in the town! These highly experienced and professional organizers will make a difference in the next election. They will send a loud and clear message that we live in a democracy, even in little East Greenbush, NY, not an autocracy. So, it's not about luck, 1:38. It's about hard work, dedication, commitment, and kick butt organizational skills. Therefore, the "good luck" wishes really should go to the "this is the way it's always been done" crowd.
Yes, 3:52 PM, all of us extremist kooks.... we who are doctors, lawyers, nurses, librarians, business owners, State and Federal workers, engineers and other highly intelligent MOTIVATED VOTERS. BTW, I don't consider you an "average person."
Interesting comment 3:52. If you consider a group made up of hard working people, parents, grandparents young singles, retirees, business owners, dentists, veterinarians, lawyers, teachers, doctors, nurses, entrepreneurs, authors and so many others to be kooks then I consider myself in damn good company. I don't think you know what you are talking about but I'd love to have a conversation with you.
3:52 p.m. Who is the "average person" to whom you are referring? You? Do you really think this movement to take out the trash in East Greenbush would be so strong if things were going well in EG? Does one have to be an "extremist kook" to want a town government that functions WITHOUT a "broken beyond repair accounting system," expensive audits that bore no results, lost opportunities to take advantage of free financial assistance and aid from the state because we can't produce certified audit reports, a fully functioning ethics code, constant and very expensive lawsuits, an unwillingness to recover the stipend money, constant reduced assessments from tax certs, deals with politically connected insiders who don't follow the rules and town employees who turn their heads the other way, expensive contracts with in-house consultants who contribute heavily (at your expense) to politicians campaign accounts, highly lucrative union contracts (in exchange for votes) that have been breaking the financial back of the town, especially with overtime costs, interfund borrowing debt that is purported to be largely paid back but no one knows how it's happening, and a reclusive Supervisor who resents resident participation in town government with a dysfunctional town board chaser of elected officials who can't work together. Geez! Need I go on? Because I could! The "kooks" are clearly the ones who want things to stay the same as they are now for their own selfish benefit and enrichment. Enough is enough! Why don't you join us, the "A" team, 3:52. You won't regret it, especially if you're overworked and overtaxed and just plain fed up with corrupt, backroom, government shenanigans that just won't quit. Come join us. There's always room for one more.
Langley and the Reps are toast and Tuff-guy is going to have a hard time living down the record of the previous administration. Obviously time for a BIG change.
The appeal for 1 Cooper Ave. is being "tabled." I wonder what that means. Will the illegal sewer connection which was made during the moratorium be disconnected? It will be interesting to see what kind of "rub-a-dub-dub" we get.
10:26 a.m. This will get ugly as town managers start blaming one another and lying through their teeth to get out of the line of fire. Someone's head has to roll for this. My bet is on the Bldg. Inspector. Angry dems will then be looking for another head to roll. My bet is on the Supervisor.
Take a look at slide 27, page 16. Then take a look at our zoning map under our ZBA page and you'll clearly see the only non R2 zoning is 2 Cooper Ave., and this map was made available 3 years prior to the Hart's purchasing 1 Cooper Ave..
Are you suggesting another decision for an "insider" like the one they made for the casino? (Remember any decision doesn't make the problem of the illegal sewer connection go away. DEC never knew about it, and somebody, maybe several, had to allow it locally.
Who cares? Just approve a use variance at the zoning board. Stop attacking people that are investing into our town. Did it ever occur to you that they might be fed up with you? They live here also, and are doing more than just talking such as yourself. Respectfully saying.
It's important that everyone obey the law. Investing in the Town doesn't mean that one can disobey the law. I'm fed up with preferential treatment for insiders. I pay my share of taxes. A larger tax bill doesn't translate to the ability to avoid compliance with the law.
An illegal sewer connection during the moratorium is not a dispassionate investment in the Town, it's a violation of the law - winked at by those in authority. Time for a BIG change in the way things are done around here.
So Mr. Who cares? you would be alright if this was right next to you? So you would be alright with the fact that anyone else in this town that gets any kind of work done on their house has to follow proper procedure, and these people didn't have to? So next time you want to improve your house are you ok with the fact that you need to follow procedure so as the town can adjust your taxes so they can make sure to get the fair share from you, but these people didn't have to do that and would have been paying a lower tax bill on something that should have been much much higher. you are ok with that? Oh thats right let me guess you are one of them right? You have fed at the trough too?
So who cares, you are all right with paying the taxes you pay, but the rest of the property owners don't have to pay an equal amount? I live right next door to 1 cooper ave. and over the last so many years have had work done on my house, always following proper procedure, and getting a building permit when I needed to. And I watched my taxes go up and up and up, after all the work. But these people that do stuff like this don't pay their fair share in, and make it worse for people that actually do.
I guess someone like you will never understand.
If they don't have to follow proper procedure neither do I, nor does anyone else for that matter!!!
Someone needs to tell the ZBA or the Town Board that spot zoning is not allowed. It would be like putting a casino in the middle of a residential neighborhood. To put something other than R2 in an R2 area would not stand up to a legal challenge. Unless of course you had the right last name.
There's clearly an uprising of fed up citizens in EG and, throughout history, that's never been good for bad government. We are limping along with a defiant Supervisor who has no regard for internal controls and very little if any knowledge of state and town law. He is treating town hall like a club house and granting access to only those who know the secret handshake. The operative word here is SECRET. Shhhh! NO LANGLEY & M(ALONE) 2015!
Dear 'Who cares"---apparently one of them no longer lives in this Town. Fancy that--first Ginny O'Brien leaves after passing tax hikes and now, after casinogate, Mangold. They increase taxes, take what they can and poof--gone.
8:09 a.m. You are so right. Imagine how we'd feel abt Ms. Mangold's resignation if we were actually awarded the casino license. This is precisely why the electorate must become more proactive about researching candidates backgrounds BEFORE they elect them. Given her family's extensive business endeavors in the town, many agree that a Hart or anyone related to the Harts by marriage should NOT be elected or appointed to a town, planning or zoning board in East Greenbush and that goes for other big names, too, like Polsinello, Corellis, and I'm sure there are others. There is something called a conflict-of-interest that must be taken more seriously. Looking into a candidates background educationally, professionally, and familially is crucial to picking good candidates. Voting for someone because they are attractive or popular is never a good idea, there has to be more, much more because these people are being given the power to make decisions FOR US. The casino fiasco was the perfect example of that. The electorate GIVES elected officials control of their tax dollars and town hall. Therefore, we must take the opportunity while they are campaigning to check out their background because after they are elected, it's too late.
Just imagine that the people living next door to you, behind you, near you in any way, decide to build on to or in any way alter the building on their property. Do you realize what that does to YOUR property value? Who's going to buy near an eye sore? For anyone who does not understand, that's the purpose of zoning laws! 1 Cooper Ave does not meet those requirements. Plain and simple!
I attended the resident forum last night. It was very interesting to hear from a former seven term supervisor from North Greenbush and a CPA in the biz for over 30 years. The Q & A afterwards was very much appreciated. No town officials showed up except the Matters and the Depty Supe. I was told CP DiMartino wanted to come but couldn't due to illness. Maybe we could get a video tape to her?
Langley and Malone were also no shows. Allergies??? Or just afraid of being in the same room with intelligent people asking (and receiving answers to) good questions???
It's good to see Langley isn't just barfing out lies on the town website for the most recent Supervisor update, but really with this "While there is the concept of a “broken” accounting system, I want you to know that we are able to process and manage accounts effectively, just not as efficiently as we would prefer." This is his 4th year as our CFO and he doesn't manage our accounts efficiently?!
What the heck Supervisor Langley talking about when he is writing about the CONCEPT of a broken accounting system? When a baseball is hit through a window, does that result in the CONCEPT of a broken window? Isn't the window ACTUALLY broken? C'mon Keith, we've had enough of your political comments.
Thanks to Jack Conway for organizing the fiscal forum on April 29. It was great to hear that an AUD can be audited for purposes of reconciling local compliance with the State Comptroller's standards for strong internal controls and material substantiation of actions taken with the town's finances. I was also impressed by the former elected official's balanced opinion about why a management letter from an auditor is a good thing. He conveyed that there are lessons to learn when someone who is objectively reviewing past decisions makes suggestions about how to improve in the future. A very worthwhile evening!
It's too bad Town Supervisor Keith Langley and Town Comptroller George Phillips were unable to attend last night's citizen fiscal forum at the East Greenbush Library. I'm sure they would have been impressed and well informed by the good fellowship and important information shared by the panelists and the full room of attendees.
Kudos to Tina Tierney and Jack Conway for pulling this all together.
Tom, if I were the town Comptroller, there is no way I would have missed this event. I would have wanted to be there to defend my performance and assure residents that I have everything under control. Of course, in our Comptroller's case, he would have had to drive in from out-of-town since 16 months-in he is still not a resident of East Greenbush. The residency requirement in the town does not seem to be enforced, so why don't we just get rid of it?
Tina and Jack, Thank you for organizing last night's highly informative and professional "good government" event. Both speakers set an example of excellence that is sadly lacking in East Greenbush.
Dear Ms. Smyth, Your problem, as I see it, is that the McCabian democrats with whom you associate have no interest whatsoever in the kind of good government that was being discussed at the forum. This would make it difficult for you to be effective if you were to run for the town board and win. Weren't you and the former Councilperson Sue Mangold the democrats who ran for county legislature in 2013 and lost? Where were you last year when the town was under seige by advocates for a casino? Did you help to defeat it? Did you sign the petition against it? You suddenly seem to be everywhere but the question is where have you been and who supports you politically? To the readers: please reread the post on 4/29 @ 1:42 p.m. and start here, start now.
Sue Mangold and Andrea Smythe knocked on my door when they ran together for county Legislature and they acted like they were sisters. Don't be fooled, and make no mistake about it. Andrea Smythe is a Hart family loyalist. She is also a LOSER, and for good reasons. These people just keep coming!!!
Is this the same Andrea Smyth who was appointed by Phil Malone to CFAC? And now she's talking about internal control standards? Sorry, I'm just not buying it.
Dear Ms. Smyth- You are Phil Malone's appointee to the Citizen's Fiscal Advisory Committee (CFAC). Don't forget to list that on your campaign biography right next to your campaign for the county legislature with your running mate Sue Mangold. So now you're trying to portray yourself yourself as some sort of a good government reformer. Nice try Ms. Smyth, but that dog won't hunt.
Can anyone believe that Ed Gilbert actually had some dignity? He stated last election season with regards to Phil Malone's childish campaign propaganda (the Matters wanted ads) the following in his blog from November 2013:
"This is the act of someone that knows they can’t win on the issues. Someone with a seriously flawed idea of right and wrong, someone more concerned about themselves then about the Town and someone I do NOT want in any leadership position. Anyone that would condone this type of activity is not someone I would want making decision on what’s best for the town because clearly they have no idea on what is best for anyone but themselves."
What's ironic, if it could be written for himself and his BFF Langley. This is the same man who got up in front of the Gaming Commission and called his residents a bunch of NIMBYs who were liars because how dare we claim that there was a school (or two) and a Girls Scout camp within the vicinity.
Ah, the poetic justice of being tagged an insider democrat! At the moment, the list of town dems who will associate with me is rather short. Nonetheless, those sowing the seeds of reform know where I have been and what I hope to accomplish. So, please introduce yourself to me the next time you see me around so you can learn more and know that while I may fail, it will be while daring greatly.
Sorry, 9:23 not revelent. Any Gilbert talk is out of focus. We all need to concentrate on defeating Langley. Also, neither of the Matters are running. The stage belongs to new, vibrant candidates this election season. Candidates are coming who will run for the future of our town. They will be running to win. Forget the personal stuff.
No offense, but is half of what's said in a blog relevant to the original post? It's absolutely relevant because we have a Supervisor who appointed this man and as long as this man remains our ethic's chairman it is most certainly relevant. Especially when the very man who appointed him and allows him to make a mockery of our town is indeed running this year.
I agree though keeping it relevant is important, as to why I posted about one of the most embarassing Langley appointees . Posting anonymous attacks about citizens who are volunteers for our town is completely irrelevant, and rather childish. (Just a disclaimer, I do not know Andrea)
I do not know Andrea either, and have never met her. Maybe she came to my door last year and maybe she didn't? I do remember Sue Mangold coming to my door and telling her straight to her face that I wouldn't have voted for her.
Well anyways, on to my point, What gives some anonymous person the right to knock Andrea? Why because you can hide behind your anonymity? Andrea don't be discourage there are a few of us that use are names on here and take heat for it. I guess you must have hit some type of nerve?
Guilt by association is a dangerous game. You may not like Phil Malone but his appointment of Andrea Smyth to CFAC was a good move. Go to one of their meetings and you'll see why. Some people have a problem with Andrea because she's a strong independent voice but you really can't have enough people like her if you want to make progress. This will be an unprecedented year in town politics, one where old alignments and loyalties will be undermined and new coalitions created. Politically speaking, I 'm more interested in where Andrea is going than where she's been. I feel the same way about everyone else as well. The personal attacks are wrong in principle but in Andrea's case they're also wrong in fact.
"Guilt by association" is a fact of life. So is "birds of a feather flock together." Where was Andrea during the casino war between the town board and the residents? It's time to ditch the "kumbiya" stuff, Jack, lest you be eaten alive behind your back. This town is trying to repair itself, which is a Herculean endeavor, and we can't afford to make any mistakes...not THIS year! Be hyper-careful.
Jack- You said "Politically speaking, I'm more interested in where Andrea is going than where she's been. I feel the same way about everyone else as well." By your logic that would include characters like Sue Mangold and Phil Malone. There are a number of us who have embraced your candidacy as a reformer. The only way to change this Town for the better is to drain the swamp of insiders such as Mangold and Malone and their assorted hangers on. Ms. Smyth spent a great deal of her time over the past several years supporting Mangold's and Malone's various political efforts. She now claims to have distanced herself from them. I'm sorry Jack, but I'm not willing to blindly jump on the Smyth bandwagon just because she now says warm and fuzzy things about good government. She was an officer of the East Greenbush Democratic Committee during the casino debacle and remained silent throughout the whole siting process. She was an officer of the East Greenbush Democratic Committee and remained silent throughout the whole Cooper Avenue (Hart family) illegal sewer connection process. Ms. Smyth's previous actions do not demonstrate that "she's a strong independent voice." They demonstrate that she was a political crony of Sue Mangold and Phil Malone.
To go back and crucify anyone who supported Malone and Mangold in their political endeavors is not only useless, it could become a daunting task given there were thousands who chose to vote for them and support their campaign. If anyone decided to jump on their bandwagon now for reelection (although we knew Mangold was done 6/12/14 when she publicly basically said so) after they've showed us their true colors, that's a different story.
With regards to bashing Andrea Smyth for not publicly fighting the casino is also irrelevant. As a huge, and loud, opponent of the casino I never focused on non-elected officials for wanting a casino. After all, as a citizen it is their right. It was our elected officials the fight was with. The elected officials who blatantly disregarded the wishes, interests and safety of their residents. If Andrea were to choose to run and was asked about the casino, it is then that she has the duty to respond. As a private citizen who sits on a volunteering committee, it is not her responsibility whether you like it or not. As someone who read almost every CV casino document, I can tell you Andrea Smyth's signature is not on any petition in support of CV. And, no I do not know Andrea Smyth, nor am I affiliated with either of the major parties.
@ 11:10 AM, The wonderful thing about the Gadfly blog is the Gadfly's willingness to allow people to engage in meaningful and civil dialogue regarding the important issues facing our Town. It seems to me as if 10:35 AM has raised some important points and so have you. Unfortunately, your use of emotionally charges words such as "crucify" and "bashing" detracts from your otherwise thoughtful comments.
Letter to the editor of this blog (Don)...So I guess you don't believe the "Ladies" currently holding position on our board are tying to do good for the people? I wrote to you 4/30 between the hours of 3-4 but was DISMISSED... this blog is just as bias & hypocritical as all the others....very disappointed that only your views matter. I have been a reader on THE Gadfly for roughly 5 yrs now, I AM NEITHER A REPUBLICAN OR DEMOCRAT...I vote for whomever I believe will be the best of the 2 evils. Respectfully, very confused!
Dear Anony.....I have NOTHING in the trash or spam file that fits the description or time parameters you describe. I am, however, being flooded with a bunch a stuff attempting to link Andrea Smyth to McCabe, Tuffey and Malone.
Jack, I agree that Andrea's voice should be heard, and in that spirit, I listened carefully to her (and others) during the casino debate. She spoke in favor of programs for children and families being funded out of casino mitigations and considerations at a town board meeting. Other than that, she took no public position. I do not believe that town government should fund social services projects and I was against the casino location. I will not, therefore, support Ms. Smythe for any town office. During the SWF campaign we were asked to support candidates based on where they said they were going and SWF went into office and did the exact opposite of what they said they would do. A debate on this blog a few days ago pointed out the significant bad government appointments they made their first week in office. My point is that, based on many bait and switch political maneuvers that have plagued our town' s political process we must consider the records of all candidates.
lest you forget in your Andrea Smyth-bashing frenzy, a number of you actively supported Keith Langley four years ago and the SWF two years ago ... and they all played major roles in 'casinogate'.
This is 5/1 at 11:09 again. I didn't bash Ms. Smyth I simply made a point based on the issues. Supporting candidates based on their records is the American way. Further, I expect to get through the entire election season without casting any stones and I hope you will do the same, 11:19.
Regarding who I supported in the past, I did not support SWF. I will forever regret my support of Keith Langley and because of that mistake, I will work ever harder for my good government candidates.
To 11:19- You make an excellent point. I admit I wasn't paying close enough attention four years ago, or even two years ago. But I'm sure paying attention now. I will be looking closely at the records and positions of ALL the potential candidates for ALL offices this year. And I will be paying particular attention to where each of them stood, didn't stand, or remained silent, during the casino debacle.
11:19 a.m. Langley was elected two years BEFORE the casino project in an 'anyone has got to be better than Rick McCabe' run for office. The vote wasn't FOR Langley, it was AGAINST McCabe and all the serious financial problems his time in office visited on the town. The SWF (Deb and MAM) ran an honest and true campaign. They were very proud of their platform and couldn't wait to get started. The problem was that Keith Langley didn't believe in their platform and NEVER TOLD THEM. They got in, their platform was shoved aside (because they didn't have three votes to execute it) and it all went downhill from there until their majority literally dissolved. Lastly, MAM was the only board member who helped to defeat the siting of a casino in EG...lest you forget.
Now it make sense that all of the sudden people are talking Andrea Smyth now that Tuffey (and rumored some other "boys") resigned. Just childish EG politics as usual. Time to rid our town of this embarrassment of a circus on November 3rd and replace Town Hall with new,intelligent faces!
What a joke! It shouldn't be long now before we see an announcement from Andrea Smyth that she is running for Supervisor on a Democratic Party "Reform" ticket. The result will be to split the reform vote, thus allowing Langley and company to squeak through on election day. Langley, Tuffey, Fiacco, Benko, (DeFruscio), Murphy, (the Harts) and McCabe must be loving this.
11:05 a.m. No worries. Ms. Smythe has no better chance of becoming Supervisor than Langley has of being re-elected. The town wants REAL change in 2015 and the casino war between the town board and the residents taught us that, when properly organized, change IS achievable. If he's got the stomach for it, Keith Langley will be primaried this year for the republican line so we could wind up having three candidates to choose from for supervisor. With all this competition, it will be interesting to see just how much Keith Langley wants to be re-elected.
I will not be voting for any of the Rep. or Dem. candidates for Supervisor or Town Board this year. I've had enough. I plan to write in the names of good and honest people who are not part of either the Reps or the Dems It's too bad we don't have non-partisan elections in EG.
Unfortunately, anyone who runs on either of the 2 major tickets will be tainted by the actions of those who have come before and who have managed to run this town into the ground. We need to rid this government of the insiders and hangers-on. It is not going to be easy and anyone who gets elected and wants to clean up will have a lot of sleepless nights. Langley will not go quietly and he will leave the victor with a mess - plain and simple because the new Supe will have no say in the budget or appointments for the next year. The Planning and Zoning Boards are already stacked with those who have looked the other way for years and have their own self-interests at heart. No - I am not talking about all - but the few and you know who they are - . It will take good guys - if they are elected at least a full term to begin to make a dent in the mess. They will need our support. Suzanne
Supervisor Langley wants a cross-endorsement by the democrats. He thinks that with a cross-endorsement, he won't have to campaign door-to-door like other candidates or spend money on a campaign to get your vote. But why would the democrats cross-endorse Keith Langley? Is it because they don't have a viable candidate of their own to challenge him and win or is it because they don't think he can be beaten or is it because they consider him to be the best candidate for the job? If the democrats do give Keith Langley a cross-endorsement, at what price to the town? And what if he wins another term but he's not part of a coveted majority? The political calculus that goes into this decision is extremely complicated. Does the chairman of the democrat committee have the ability and the experience to lead the party in the right direction? For all our sakes, let's hope so.
Apparently, Tuffy resigned because the Majority of Dem committee people wouldn't go along with the cross endorsement sham. They are upset with DVW cuz he was the most vocal against the deal. It is also said that DVW will be the Dem candidate, without the support of Tuffy, McCabe and the other big wigs. Maybe there is hope for DVW, after breaking away from them.
There are now Reps who are questioning their loyalty to Langley in the light of new candidates who are coming forward. After all, Langley abandoned his loyalty to Reps everywhere when he slithered to the Dems for a cross-endorsement. IF the cross happens, it won't come cheaply. Most current town employees will have to kiss their jobs goodbye as they're replaced by Dems as repayment for the cross. Town hall will look like it did when Rick McCabe was supervisor. Oh, Mr. Langley, what a tangled web we weave, when first we practice to deceive.
All he hadda do was be a decent guy with the two newbies on the board. Wouldn't that have been so much easier than the path he chose? This guy has seriously impaired judgement. How can anyone even think about reelecting him? It makes no sense.
Even if Keith Langley is cross-endorsed by the Democrats, it doesn't mean people will vote for him. There will be another choice on the ballot this year, and maybe as many as three choices for Supervisor if things go really badly for Mr. Langley. Time will tell what he's up against.
Dear Gadfly, I'm getting mixed messages on a very important issue relating to the upcoming election. It is my understanding that Counsel Person Matters is putting her support behind Jack Conway for all his hard work apposing the Casino. It's now being said that she is throwing her support behind Mike Poorman who was a supporter of the Casino. Do you know if there is any truth to this?
What ever happenred to the Cooper Ave scandal. Is there a reason ZBA chairman Jeffrey Pangburn hasn't addressed this issue or is he and other members of the ZBA avoiding it for some unknown reason?
What Pangburn said at the last ZBA meeting was that the ZBA had not received and was awaiting "guidance" from the Building Department. They've got a hot potato on their hands. Start with the illegal Plat approval by the Planning Board Chairman a year ago last January for the Thompson Way project and then culminating with an illegal sewer connection at Cooper Ave. and then throw in the casino mischief .... the insiders have really compromised the futures of those politicians who have courted them for so long. The culture of corruption is even under attack in the Assembly and Senate. Geeze....even some Dems have had enough. What this town needs is a good perp walk. If DiNapoli hadn't been compromised a few years ago, we'd have had one then.
How is this year going to be any different? You have Dave VanWormer who is connected at the hip with Rick McCabe and the rest of the Dem machine getting the Dem endorsement for Supervisor. Then you have Mike Poorman with a capital R stamped on his forehead trying to get the Republican machine endorsement for supervisor who is best friends with Brian Hart.
That's funny, Sword, the ZBA is waiting for "guidance" from the Building Department? Isn't that a bit like the Jets waiting for guidance from the Sharks (West Side Story)? The bottom line is that they're ALL bad news.
I'm sick of this town being down. Given its close proximity to Albany, East Greenbush should be one of the most desirable towns in the Capital District in which to live and raise a family, yet we don't even have a town planner. Columbia Turnpike should be bustling with business but instead a lot of it's buildings are outdated and shabby looking. We don't even have a McDonald's! Clifton Park is looking at acquiring a medical marijuana dispensary for their town, which should bring in a lot of out-of-towners who will also spend money in their stores and restaurants. This sounds like a good idea for their economy. Maybe it could also work for Columbia Turnpike in EG?
YES, with the right people on the town board! Not everyone is corrupt. We must believe that and do our homework into the backgrounds of candidates. This year, we must also have candidate debates. NO LANGLEY - NO MALONE 2015!
"29 years ago today, I started my Law Enforcement Career(which didn't end so good!). Now, 29 years to the day later, I begin my political career, as I have secured the Democratic Endorsement to run for Town of East Greenbush Supervisor! I will accept votes from all persuasions, D,R,I,C etc., so my friends who are not a D, you can still vote for me in November. Thanks to the committee for choosing me."
Does Mr. VW not understand the democratic nominating process? Nominations happen in September at the caucus. If he secures the nomination, is he willing to have the sordid details of his past made public? He should think twice for it surely won't "end so good" yet again.
Sorry, Dave....But anyone even associated with law enforcement,Renss.politics;McCabe;Tuffy:McLangley;Malone;Mangold;Maney;Hart...Need not even try,or apply. Thanks for mudding the waters.
As the Gadfly stated the main agenda has been lining their own pockets, and not taking care of this town or the people in it, so needless to say some things have gone to waste, like most of 9&20.
Start now, folks, researching the backgrounds of prospective candidates and SHARE YOUR FINDINGS! Research a candidate's education, employment history, experience working in a government setting, associations both family and friends, and their political affiliations. Who they associate with and those who support their candidacy will tell you a lot about their politics. Their employment history, both past and present, will tell something about why they're running. Is the candidate for Supervisor gainfully employed, under-employed, unemployed, happily or unhappily employed, or retired? Also look into the candidates goals for the town and question them about HOW they plan to achieve their goals. Don't accept the usual campaign rhetoric like "I will lower taxes." Make them tell you HOW they will lower taxes. The time has long come for the electorate to literally INTERVIEW candidates for the job. You can't be employed by McDonald's flipping burgers without first going on an interview and you can't get elected in East Greenbush any longer without first doing the same. Make them work for your vote because, as Mr. Langley has demonstrated time and time again, after they're elected, the Q & A period is over.
A good start might be for Supervisor Langley and CP Malone to post their biographies on the Town Website. C'mon fellas you've been in office for years. What's the hold up? Mangold, Matters and DiMartino were able to do it. Why not you guys?
Some people just don't have much to brag about. These may be two such people. As long as we're researching into candidates backgrounds, I'd like to know the five biggest accomplishments of Mr. Langley and Mr. Malone since they were first elected. This is a fair question.
DVW's character is, sadly, going to be like the proverbial millstone around his neck. He was fired from his cop job for sleeping on the job and using the town's computer for personal business . His termination was not challenged by the union.
His bar was cited for serving underage people.
As DPW Commish he cost all of us money as he completely mismanaged the town's fuel tanks and created another environmental mess.
His close personal connection to ousted former supervisor McCabe is not going to generate any favorable votes except from the same damnable people who got, and try to keep, OUR town in the same messes that have plagued us for years.
Phil Malone made the motion, and Phil's Mother made the second to nominate him. DVW is up to his ears in all that past corruption of the McCabe era. They are determined to resurrect that group.
Anyone who would put their name on that Democrat ticket with DVM would have to be out of their mind. Talk about the potential to get dragged through the mud.
Here's Tina Tierney's letter in today's Advertiser describing the event at the Library next Wednesday......
ReplyDeletehttps://eastgreenbushtruth.files.wordpress.com/2015/04/wpid-2015-04-22-14-31-59.png
Tina and Jack---GREAT idea and Jim F---thank you so much for your active participation!
ReplyDeleteEVERY member of the Town Board, CFAC and the Ethics Cmt should be present at this forum. This forum is such a great idea!
ReplyDeleteKeith Langley won't attend. He already knows it ALL...just ask him. He will send resident drone "Mr. Ethics" Gilbert but he'll be wearing his wannabe Depty Supr. hat and attempting to argue every point, albeit unsuccessfully. He may send others but the "friends" of Langley who are willing to give up a Wednesday evening in front of the TV for him are dwindling in number. Most of the town board members won't view this as an opportunity to learn something but more as a criticism of their performance, so they won't give SEG, who they believe is behind it, the satisfaction of attending. This is no different than the casino forums that were held at the library. None of them (except CP Matters) attended those either. Shame.
ReplyDeleteCP Mangold officially resigned from the Town Board today for residency reasons.
ReplyDeleteShe moved 6 months ago and was about to have the whistle blown on her.
DeleteSo then how many governmental policy calls did she make when she was not a legal "elector" in the Town? The last big one I remember was to kill the sewer rate study a couple of weeks ago.
DeleteLet's not forget Supervisor Langley and Supervisor wanna be Malone also voted to kill the sewer rate study. At least now, if Matters and DiMartino hold firm, Langley and Malone won't be able to push forward a sewer fee increase without a completed study. They now hold the leverage, since a 2-2 vote is not enough for Langley and Malone to impose any fee increase without a completed rate study.
DeleteLangley will be pushing for a replacement for Mangold. If he thinks there's a chance of that happening this year, he's dreaming. The person she screwed most of all by resigning was Casino Keith. Thanks, Sue!
Delete7:51 a.m. A 2-2 vote is not enough for Langley and Malone to impose anything on the residents for the rest of the year. Oh, sweet justice!
DeleteIs Rick McCabe going to be a special guest speaker?
ReplyDeleteAlong with Kevin Tuffey......
DeleteYes, they can both tell a town what NOT to do if it wants to be successful. They are experts on that.
ReplyDeleteThis forum is what I love about the New East Greenbush. Residents have questions - so they are asking them, and they want answers - so they are getting them. No more waiting for blank stares from elected officials.
ReplyDeleteCan the Town Board take legal action against Toni Murphy and Rick McCabe for the thousands of dollars they both illegally accepted per the OSC report. Shouldn't Toni Murphys illegal acceptance of tax payers money disallow her from running for her public office this year. If Langley won't address the problem Mary Ann Matters should take control of the situation and back what's left of this board into a corner with a resolution.
ReplyDelete3:36 PM- Agreed. This would be a very good issue for Deb and MAM to pursue starting immediately, if not sooner.
ReplyDeleteDiMartino and matters should introduce a resolution to recoup the illegal stipends paid to McCabe and Murphy. Let's get Langley's and Malone's votes on the record for all the residents to see. Langley and Malone should finally be held accountable.
ReplyDeleteNo Langley or Malone in 2015!!
Not gonna happen 821. Murphy was pushing the Dems to endorse Langley at last Monday's committee meeting. Guess Langley's anti women attitudes don't bother her.
ReplyDeleteI was hoping to see Supervisor Langley at today's opening day ceremonies for the EG baseball & softball leagues to show support for the children of our community, but unfortunately he wasn't in attendance. 8:00 on a Saturday must be too early for Casino Keith to rise and shine, but Poorman and DiMartino made it there bright and early, along with Jimino and others. Maybe he went rainbow trout fishing at the town park instead?
ReplyDeleteAt least he had the class not to show. The County contingent which tried to ram a casino down our throats a year ago has now become "family oriented" and shows up at ball games. They should all go "play in the street."
DeleteNews flash Gadfly, Mike Poorman, and Deb DiMartino were strong advocates for the casino and can't stand any of you and your group.DiMartino had Corellis riding around in the town truck putting casino signs all over town on town time as well as his own time with the town truck.
DeleteSo this is NEWS?
DeleteMary Ann Matters was also at the ball field bright and early yesterday but the announcer didn't announce her name... just saying. It looked like she was having it out with that county guy, the big dufus with the camera. He was probably pressuring her to get back with McLangley now that Mangold has walked away without so much as a goodbye and thank you. You're welcome, Sue! Have a nice life! The dems told McLangley "NO" to cross-endorsement and now he's scrambling to regroup with those he he turned his back on. DeF has disappeared, which is his M-O whenever things look bleak. Danny-boy is on deck and is sure to be spending every minute of his days on town time working to get boss hog re-elected. The dems see a chance to run fresh faces and maybe win. Good luck with that, Tuff-guy. There are forces coming the likes of which you've never seen. Prepare to be amazed.
DeleteMcLangley was also a NO-SHOW at the walk around the lake last Thursday evening in honor of those victimized by domestic violence. Disgraceful.
DeleteQuestion? In 2017, will county legislators who bamboozled our thin-skinned, wide-eyed Supervisor into supporting a big box casino in small town, USA be held accountable at election time for their actions or will all be forgotten by then? One of those legislators is Phil Danaher who has had a hand in more than just casino follies in our town. Cowboy Rob Bayley was also hugely supportive of a casino in EG. He lives in Poestinkill, so what does he care? Leon Fiacco and cousin Danny were also huge supporters of the casino.
Delete9:00 Malone was a no show, too, at that event. It was a windy, cold evening but many who care were there.
DeleteOur Supervisor could not even fake being a decent politician who cares about our town and make an appearance at the Take Back the Night Walk that took place less than a mile from Town Hall. It should be noted Phil Malone could not even make an appearance as well. My guess, Keith had the sniffles and Phil couldn't decide if he could make it an entire lap around the lake without having to use the potty.
ReplyDelete8:48 & 9;12 - The county representatives and their handler (guy with camera) will need to.answer to voters in two years. This year we will have honest, concerned, intelligent, experienced candidates for local office and we must focus on supporting them in every way we can. This includes staying focused on the local race and what we can do right now. East Greenbush is on the brink of something big.
ReplyDelete848 your making us tremble in fear you must be one of the tough guys who hide behind your mommys skirt tell him how to do that Donnie
ReplyDeleteThis is one of several comments I've gotten which serve to indicate that the conspiracy hatched by the two machines and their insiders to foist a big box casino on a quiet bedroom/rural community has backfired and they are all as nervous as hell. They didn't do their homework and still are living in the bubble which reinforces the concept that they can wheel and deal their way to survival. We started saying a few years ago that the old ways were OVER, but got back "that's the way we've always done it." Thompson Hill, casino and Cooper Ave. are the latest iterations of the perennial mischief. Gotta love it. You just can't make this stuff up.
Delete11:08 Your post is so indecipherable, we're wondering if our resident illiterate is knocking on the GF's door. Remember, 11:08, spelling and punctuation really do matter!
DeleteGadfly, their is more than enough bad news that will be used to stomp BOTH machines to death this year, and they're sweating bullets because of it. Langley's trial run in the "majority," that he said he needed to succeed, crashed and burned in a big way. He's over. Even people in his own camp are eyeballing his job! With Mangold's departure, Langley's chickens have come home to roost. His goose is cooked for the rest of the year. It's Eddie "ethics chairman" Gilbert who calls you "Donnie." He doubles as the resident wanna be Deputy Supervisor and infamous republican drone all at the same time. He rears his ugly head when he starts getting really nervous for boss hog. Just the fact that he's reading and responding to GF posts PROVES that they're nervous as hell. Only six more months to go, boys, and then poof, you're gone.
ReplyDeletePlease remember everyone that the unpredictable variable in every election is the voting public. It's a lot of work to educate them, help them understand and appreciate what is going on and alter their voting patterns, which is more often than not... NOT voting. You need numbers and you need people who understand what is going on. The easiest group of people to motivate to vote are those who benefit from the system the way it is. Town workers and their families will be at the polls and vote the way that benefits them most. They just don't care about fixing a broken system. As long as they can "get by" week to week, they just don't have a long term vision and you can't change their minds. Truth is, both dems and repubs are counting on that. You need a whole new contingent of voters willing to come up and support a new direction. Good luck!
ReplyDelete1:38 p.m. Do you mean like the "whole new contingent" of citizens who woke-up last year to the reality of greedy, self-serving, arrogant town, planning and zoning board members and then banded together to defeat BIG money business interest in EG? The Gaming Commission Siting Board specifically referenced the "highly organized" opposition to the project as one of the reasons EG was not chosen. The same people who organized the defeat of the casino are working to organize a whole new party of citizens who have not forgotten the boarish bunch that proceeded so unyieldingly with ramming something so completely controversial down our throats that it caused disruption and anxiety in our lives that compares to nothing else we've ever experienced while living in the town! These highly experienced and professional organizers will make a difference in the next election. They will send a loud and clear message that we live in a democracy, even in little East Greenbush, NY, not an autocracy. So, it's not about luck, 1:38. It's about hard work, dedication, commitment, and kick butt organizational skills. Therefore, the "good luck" wishes really should go to the "this is the way it's always been done" crowd.
ReplyDeleteUnfortunately for your "whole new contingent", the average person views you all as a bunch of "extremist kooks".
DeleteYes, 3:52 PM, all of us extremist kooks.... we who are doctors, lawyers, nurses, librarians, business owners, State and Federal workers, engineers and other highly intelligent MOTIVATED VOTERS. BTW, I don't consider you an "average person."
ReplyDeleteInteresting comment 3:52. If you consider a group made up of hard working people, parents, grandparents young singles, retirees, business owners, dentists, veterinarians, lawyers, teachers, doctors, nurses, entrepreneurs, authors and so many others to be kooks then I consider myself in damn good company. I don't think you know what you are talking about but I'd love to have a conversation with you.
ReplyDeleteSuzanne
3:52 p.m. Who is the "average person" to whom you are referring? You? Do you really think this movement to take out the trash in East Greenbush would be so strong if things were going well in EG? Does one have to be an "extremist kook" to want a town government that functions WITHOUT a "broken beyond repair accounting system," expensive audits that bore no results, lost opportunities to take advantage of free financial assistance and aid from the state because we can't produce certified audit reports, a fully functioning ethics code, constant and very expensive lawsuits, an unwillingness to recover the stipend money, constant reduced assessments from tax certs, deals with politically connected insiders who don't follow the rules and town employees who turn their heads the other way, expensive contracts with in-house consultants who contribute heavily (at your expense) to politicians campaign accounts, highly lucrative union contracts (in exchange for votes) that have been breaking the financial back of the town, especially with overtime costs, interfund borrowing debt that is purported to be largely paid back but no one knows how it's happening, and a reclusive Supervisor who resents resident participation in town government with a dysfunctional town board chaser of elected officials who can't work together. Geez! Need I go on? Because I could! The "kooks" are clearly the ones who want things to stay the same as they are now for their own selfish benefit and enrichment. Enough is enough! Why don't you join us, the "A" team, 3:52. You won't regret it, especially if you're overworked and overtaxed and just plain fed up with corrupt, backroom, government shenanigans that just won't quit. Come join us. There's always room for one more.
ReplyDeleteLangley and the Reps are toast and Tuff-guy is going to have a hard time living down the record of the previous administration. Obviously time for a BIG change.
ReplyDeleteThe story is now "officially newsworthy."
ReplyDeletehttp://blog.timesunion.com/localpolitics/16708/east-greenbush-councilwoman-resigns/
Check out the agenda for the ZBA meeting tonight.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.eastgreenbush.org/document-downloads/zoning-board/agendas
The appeal for 1 Cooper Ave. is being "tabled." I wonder what that means. Will the illegal sewer connection which was made during the moratorium be disconnected? It will be interesting to see what kind of "rub-a-dub-dub" we get.
10:26 a.m. This will get ugly as town managers start blaming one another and lying through their teeth to get out of the line of fire. Someone's head has to roll for this. My bet is on the Bldg. Inspector. Angry dems will then be looking for another head to roll. My bet is on the Supervisor.
ReplyDeleteFor anyone who doesn't know what the 1 Cooper "flap" is about, read Dwight's piece from his blog at the link below.
ReplyDeletehttps://eastgreenbushdreams.wordpress.com/2015/01/16/planning-and-zoning-boards-abolished-as-unnecessary/
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&ei=bdc_VdSmCcP7oQTVu4CYCA&url=http://www.dos.ny.gov/lg/onlinetraining/test_resources/Zoning_Board_of_Appeals_Overview_Text_Version.doc&ved=0CCUQFjAC&usg=AFQjCNG_CiPXXNiCy2EVpfvQ8vDemfC_aA&sig2=H304upvo9V9EratSuqDACg
DeleteTake a look at slide 27, page 16. Then take a look at our zoning map under our ZBA page and you'll clearly see the only non R2 zoning is 2 Cooper Ave., and this map was made available 3 years prior to the Hart's purchasing 1 Cooper Ave..
Just change the zoning at the ZBA. What's the big deal?
DeleteAre you suggesting another decision for an "insider" like the one they made for the casino? (Remember any decision doesn't make the problem of the illegal sewer connection go away. DEC never knew about it, and somebody, maybe several, had to allow it locally.
DeleteI'm sure 1 Cooper Av does not meet lot size approval not to mention the illegal sewer connection!
ReplyDeleteWho cares? Just approve a use variance at the zoning board. Stop attacking people that are investing into our town. Did it ever occur to you that they might be fed up with you? They live here also, and are doing more than just talking such as yourself. Respectfully saying.
DeleteIt's important that everyone obey the law. Investing in the Town doesn't mean that one can disobey the law. I'm fed up with preferential treatment for insiders. I pay my share of taxes. A larger tax bill doesn't translate to the ability to avoid compliance with the law.
DeleteAn illegal sewer connection during the moratorium is not a dispassionate investment in the Town, it's a violation of the law - winked at by those in authority. Time for a BIG change in the way things are done around here.
DeleteSo Mr. Who cares? you would be alright if this was right next to you? So you would be alright with the fact that anyone else in this town that gets any kind of work done on their house has to follow proper procedure, and these people didn't have to? So next time you want to improve your house are you ok with the fact that you need to follow procedure so as the town can adjust your taxes so they can make sure to get the fair share from you, but these people didn't have to do that and would have been paying a lower tax bill on something that should have been much much higher. you are ok with that? Oh thats right let me guess you are one of them right? You have fed at the trough too?
DeleteSo who cares, you are all right with paying the taxes you pay, but the rest of the property owners don't have to pay an equal amount? I live right next door to 1 cooper ave. and over the last so many years have had work done on my house, always following proper procedure, and getting a building permit when I needed to. And I watched my taxes go up and up and up, after all the work. But these people that do stuff like this don't pay their fair share in, and make it worse for people that actually do.
DeleteI guess someone like you will never understand.
If they don't have to follow proper procedure neither do I, nor does anyone else for that matter!!!
Someone needs to tell the ZBA or the Town Board that spot zoning is not allowed. It would be like putting a casino in the middle of a residential neighborhood. To put something other than R2 in an R2 area would not stand up to a legal challenge. Unless of course you had the right last name.
ReplyDeleteThere's clearly an uprising of fed up citizens in EG and, throughout history, that's never been good for bad government. We are limping along with a defiant Supervisor who has no regard for internal controls and very little if any knowledge of state and town law. He is treating town hall like a club house and granting access to only those who know the secret handshake. The operative word here is SECRET. Shhhh!
ReplyDeleteNO LANGLEY & M(ALONE) 2015!
Dear 'Who cares"---apparently one of them no longer lives in this Town. Fancy that--first Ginny O'Brien leaves after passing tax hikes and now, after casinogate, Mangold. They increase taxes, take what they can and poof--gone.
ReplyDelete8:09 a.m. You are so right. Imagine how we'd feel abt Ms. Mangold's resignation if we were actually awarded the casino license. This is precisely why the electorate must become more proactive about researching candidates backgrounds BEFORE they elect them. Given her family's extensive business endeavors in the town, many agree that a Hart or anyone related to the Harts by marriage should NOT be elected or appointed to a town, planning or zoning board in East Greenbush and that goes for other big names, too, like Polsinello, Corellis, and I'm sure there are others. There is something called a conflict-of-interest that must be taken more seriously. Looking into a candidates background educationally, professionally, and familially is crucial to picking good candidates. Voting for someone because they are attractive or popular is never a good idea, there has to be more, much more because these people are being given the power to make decisions FOR US. The casino fiasco was the perfect example of that. The electorate GIVES elected officials control of their tax dollars and town hall. Therefore, we must take the opportunity while they are campaigning to check out their background because after they are elected, it's too late.
ReplyDeleteI always prefer to vote for the most attractive candidate.
ReplyDeleteJust imagine that the people living next door to you, behind you, near you in any way, decide to build on to or in any way alter the building on their property. Do you realize what that does to YOUR property value? Who's going to buy near an eye sore? For anyone who does not understand, that's the purpose of zoning laws! 1 Cooper Ave does not meet those requirements. Plain and simple!
ReplyDeleteI attended the resident forum last night. It was very interesting to hear from a former seven term supervisor from North Greenbush and a CPA in the biz for over 30 years. The Q & A afterwards was very much appreciated. No town officials showed up except the Matters and the Depty Supe. I was told CP DiMartino wanted to come but couldn't due to illness. Maybe we could get a video tape to her?
ReplyDeleteI believe that the video of the Forum will be up at this site sometime soon:
Deletehttps://eastgreenbushtruth.wordpress.com/
Langley and Malone were also no shows. Allergies??? Or just afraid of being in the same room with intelligent people asking (and receiving answers to) good questions???
ReplyDeleteIt's good to see Langley isn't just barfing out lies on the town website for the most recent Supervisor update, but really with this "While there is the concept of a “broken” accounting system, I want you to know that we are able to process and manage accounts effectively, just not as efficiently as we would prefer." This is his 4th year as our CFO and he doesn't manage our accounts efficiently?!
ReplyDeleteWhat the heck Supervisor Langley talking about when he is writing about the CONCEPT of a broken accounting system? When a baseball is hit through a window, does that result in the CONCEPT of a broken window? Isn't the window ACTUALLY broken?
ReplyDeleteC'mon Keith, we've had enough of your political comments.
Thanks to Jack Conway for organizing the fiscal forum on April 29. It was great to hear that an AUD can be audited for purposes of reconciling local compliance with the State Comptroller's standards for strong internal controls and material substantiation of actions taken with the town's finances. I was also impressed by the former elected official's balanced opinion about why a management letter from an auditor is a good thing. He conveyed that there are lessons to learn when someone who is objectively reviewing past decisions makes suggestions about how to improve in the future. A very worthwhile evening!
ReplyDeleteAndrea Smyth
Dear Gadfly:
ReplyDeleteIt's too bad Town Supervisor Keith Langley and Town Comptroller George Phillips were unable to attend last night's citizen fiscal forum at the East Greenbush Library. I'm sure they would have been impressed and well informed by the good fellowship and important information shared by the panelists and the full room of attendees.
Kudos to Tina Tierney and Jack Conway for pulling this all together.
Be well,
Tom
Tom, if I were the town Comptroller, there is no way I would have missed this event. I would have wanted to be there to defend my performance and assure residents that I have everything under control. Of course, in our Comptroller's case, he would have had to drive in from out-of-town since 16 months-in he is still not a resident of East Greenbush. The residency requirement in the town does not seem to be enforced, so why don't we just get rid of it?
DeleteTina and Jack,
ReplyDeleteThank you for organizing last night's highly informative and professional "good government" event. Both speakers set an example of excellence that is sadly lacking in East Greenbush.
Dear Ms. Smyth,
ReplyDeleteYour problem, as I see it, is that the McCabian democrats with whom you associate have no interest whatsoever in the kind of good government that was being discussed at the forum. This would make it difficult for you to be effective if you were to run for the town board and win. Weren't you and the former Councilperson Sue Mangold the democrats who ran for county legislature in 2013 and lost? Where were you last year when the town was under seige by advocates for a casino? Did you help to defeat it? Did you sign the petition against it? You suddenly seem to be everywhere but the question is where have you been and who supports you politically?
To the readers: please reread the post on 4/29 @ 1:42 p.m. and start here, start now.
Sue Mangold and Andrea Smythe knocked on my door when they ran together for county Legislature and they acted like they were sisters. Don't be fooled, and make no mistake about it. Andrea Smythe is a Hart family loyalist. She is also a LOSER, and for good reasons. These people just keep coming!!!
DeleteIs this the same Andrea Smyth who was appointed by Phil Malone to CFAC? And now she's talking about internal control standards? Sorry, I'm just not buying it.
DeleteDear Ms. Smyth-
ReplyDeleteYou are Phil Malone's appointee to the Citizen's Fiscal Advisory Committee (CFAC).
Don't forget to list that on your campaign biography right next to your campaign for the county legislature with your running mate Sue Mangold.
So now you're trying to portray yourself yourself as some sort of a good government reformer.
Nice try Ms. Smyth, but that dog won't hunt.
Can anyone believe that Ed Gilbert actually had some dignity? He stated last election season with regards to Phil Malone's childish campaign propaganda (the Matters wanted ads) the following in his blog from November 2013:
ReplyDelete"This is the act of someone that knows they can’t win on the issues. Someone with a seriously flawed idea of right and wrong, someone more concerned about themselves then about the Town and someone I do NOT want in any leadership position. Anyone that would condone this type of activity is not someone I would want making decision on what’s best for the town because clearly they have no idea on what is best for anyone but themselves."
What's ironic, if it could be written for himself and his BFF Langley. This is the same man who got up in front of the Gaming Commission and called his residents a bunch of NIMBYs who were liars because how dare we claim that there was a school (or two) and a Girls Scout camp within the vicinity.
To 4/30 at 8:15 PM;
ReplyDeleteAh, the poetic justice of being tagged an insider democrat! At the moment, the list of town dems who will associate with me is rather short. Nonetheless, those sowing the seeds of reform know where I have been and what I hope to accomplish. So, please introduce yourself to me the next time you see me around so you can learn more and know that while I may fail, it will be while daring greatly.
Andrea Smyth
Sorry, 9:23 not revelent. Any Gilbert talk is out of focus. We all need to concentrate on defeating Langley. Also, neither of the Matters are running. The stage belongs to new, vibrant candidates this election season. Candidates are coming who will run for the future of our town. They will be running to win. Forget the personal stuff.
ReplyDeleteNo offense, but is half of what's said in a blog relevant to the original post? It's absolutely relevant because we have a Supervisor who appointed this man and as long as this man remains our ethic's chairman it is most certainly relevant. Especially when the very man who appointed him and allows him to make a mockery of our town is indeed running this year.
DeleteI agree though keeping it relevant is important, as to why I posted about one of the most embarassing Langley appointees . Posting anonymous attacks about citizens who are volunteers for our town is completely irrelevant, and rather childish. (Just a disclaimer, I do not know Andrea)
I do not know Andrea either, and have never met her. Maybe she came to my door last year and maybe she didn't? I do remember Sue Mangold coming to my door and telling her straight to her face that I wouldn't have voted for her.
ReplyDeleteWell anyways, on to my point, What gives some anonymous person the right to knock Andrea? Why because you can hide behind your anonymity? Andrea don't be discourage there are a few of us that use are names on here and take heat for it. I guess you must have hit some type of nerve?
Guilt by association is a dangerous game. You may not like Phil Malone but his appointment of Andrea Smyth to CFAC was a good move. Go to one of their meetings and you'll see why. Some people have a problem with Andrea because she's a strong independent voice but you really can't have enough people like her if you want to make progress. This will be an unprecedented year in town politics, one where old alignments and loyalties will be undermined and new coalitions created. Politically speaking, I 'm more interested in where Andrea is going than where she's been. I feel the same way about everyone else as well. The personal attacks are wrong in principle but in Andrea's case they're also wrong in fact.
ReplyDelete"Guilt by association" is a fact of life. So is "birds of a feather flock together." Where was Andrea during the casino war between the town board and the residents? It's time to ditch the "kumbiya" stuff, Jack, lest you be eaten alive behind your back. This town is trying to repair itself, which is a Herculean endeavor, and we can't afford to make any mistakes...not THIS year! Be hyper-careful.
DeleteJack-
DeleteYou said "Politically speaking, I'm more interested in where Andrea is going than where she's been. I feel the same way about everyone else as well."
By your logic that would include characters like Sue Mangold and Phil Malone. There are a number of us who have embraced your candidacy as a reformer. The only way to change this Town for the better is to drain the swamp of insiders such as Mangold and Malone and their assorted hangers on. Ms. Smyth spent a great deal of her time over the past several years supporting Mangold's and Malone's various political efforts. She now claims to have distanced herself from them. I'm sorry Jack, but I'm not willing to blindly jump on the Smyth bandwagon just because she now says warm and fuzzy things about good government.
She was an officer of the East Greenbush Democratic Committee during the casino debacle and remained silent throughout the whole siting process. She was an officer of the East Greenbush Democratic Committee and remained silent throughout the whole Cooper Avenue (Hart family) illegal sewer connection process.
Ms. Smyth's previous actions do not demonstrate that "she's a strong independent voice." They demonstrate that she was a political crony of Sue Mangold and Phil Malone.
To go back and crucify anyone who supported Malone and Mangold in their political endeavors is not only useless, it could become a daunting task given there were thousands who chose to vote for them and support their campaign. If anyone decided to jump on their bandwagon now for reelection (although we knew Mangold was done 6/12/14 when she publicly basically said so) after they've showed us their true colors, that's a different story.
DeleteWith regards to bashing Andrea Smyth for not publicly fighting the casino is also irrelevant. As a huge, and loud, opponent of the casino I never focused on non-elected officials for wanting a casino. After all, as a citizen it is their right. It was our elected officials the fight was with. The elected officials who blatantly disregarded the wishes, interests and safety of their residents. If Andrea were to choose to run and was asked about the casino, it is then that she has the duty to respond. As a private citizen who sits on a volunteering committee, it is not her responsibility whether you like it or not. As someone who read almost every CV casino document, I can tell you Andrea Smyth's signature is not on any petition in support of CV. And, no I do not know Andrea Smyth, nor am I affiliated with either of the major parties.
@ 11:10 AM,
DeleteThe wonderful thing about the Gadfly blog is the Gadfly's willingness to allow people to engage in meaningful and civil dialogue regarding the important issues facing our Town. It seems to me as if 10:35 AM has raised some important points and so have you. Unfortunately, your use of emotionally charges words such as "crucify" and "bashing" detracts from your otherwise thoughtful comments.
Letter to the editor of this blog (Don)...So I guess you don't believe the "Ladies" currently holding position on our board are tying to do good for the people? I wrote to you 4/30 between the hours of 3-4 but was DISMISSED... this blog is just as bias & hypocritical as all the others....very disappointed that only your views matter. I have been a reader on THE Gadfly for roughly 5 yrs now, I AM NEITHER A REPUBLICAN OR DEMOCRAT...I vote for whomever I believe will be the best of the 2 evils. Respectfully, very confused!
ReplyDeleteDear Anony.....I have NOTHING in the trash or spam file that fits the description or time parameters you describe. I am, however, being flooded with a bunch a stuff attempting to link Andrea Smyth to McCabe, Tuffey and Malone.
DeleteJack, I agree that Andrea's voice should be heard, and in that spirit, I listened carefully to her (and others) during the casino debate. She spoke in favor of programs for children and families being funded out of casino mitigations and considerations at a town board meeting. Other than that, she took no public position. I do not believe that town government should fund social services projects and I was against the casino location. I will not, therefore, support Ms. Smythe for any town office.
ReplyDeleteDuring the SWF campaign we were asked to support candidates based on where they said they were going and SWF went into office and did the exact opposite of what they said they would do. A debate on this blog a few days ago pointed out the significant bad government appointments they made their first week in office. My point is that, based on many bait and switch political maneuvers that have plagued our town' s political process we must consider the records of all candidates.
lest you forget in your Andrea Smyth-bashing frenzy, a number of you actively supported Keith Langley four years ago and the SWF two years ago ... and they all played major roles in 'casinogate'.
ReplyDeletedon't be so quick to cast the first stone.
This is 5/1 at 11:09 again. I didn't bash Ms. Smyth I simply made a point based on the issues. Supporting candidates based on their records is the American way. Further, I expect to get through the entire election season without casting any stones and I hope you will do the same, 11:19.
DeleteRegarding who I supported in the past, I did not support SWF. I will forever regret my support of Keith Langley and because of that mistake, I will work ever harder for my good government candidates.
To 11:19-
ReplyDeleteYou make an excellent point.
I admit I wasn't paying close enough attention four years ago, or even two years ago. But I'm sure paying attention now.
I will be looking closely at the records and positions of ALL the potential candidates for ALL offices this year.
And I will be paying particular attention to where each of them stood, didn't stand, or remained silent, during the casino debacle.
11:19 a.m. Langley was elected two years BEFORE the casino project in an 'anyone has got to be better than Rick McCabe' run for office. The vote wasn't FOR Langley, it was AGAINST McCabe and all the serious financial problems his time in office visited on the town. The SWF (Deb and MAM) ran an honest and true campaign. They were very proud of their platform and couldn't wait to get started. The problem was that Keith Langley didn't believe in their platform and NEVER TOLD THEM. They got in, their platform was shoved aside (because they didn't have three votes to execute it) and it all went downhill from there until their majority literally dissolved. Lastly, MAM was the only board member who helped to defeat the siting of a casino in EG...lest you forget.
ReplyDeleteCounty Democratic boss, Tom Wade, has been notified that Kevin Tuffey has resigned from the EG Democratic Committee, effective today, May 1, 2015.
ReplyDeleteNow it make sense that all of the sudden people are talking Andrea Smyth now that Tuffey (and rumored some other "boys") resigned. Just childish EG politics as usual. Time to rid our town of this embarrassment of a circus on November 3rd and replace Town Hall with new,intelligent faces!
DeleteWould this have anything to do with an upcoming investigative Times-Union piece regarding the NYS Thruway Authority by reporter Brendan Lyons?
DeleteWhat a joke! It shouldn't be long now before we see an announcement from Andrea Smyth that she is running for Supervisor on a Democratic Party "Reform" ticket.
DeleteThe result will be to split the reform vote, thus allowing Langley and company to squeak through on election day.
Langley, Tuffey, Fiacco, Benko, (DeFruscio), Murphy, (the Harts) and McCabe must be loving this.
11:05 a.m. No worries. Ms. Smythe has no better chance of becoming Supervisor than Langley has of being re-elected. The town wants REAL change in 2015 and the casino war between the town board and the residents taught us that, when properly organized, change IS achievable. If he's got the stomach for it, Keith Langley will be primaried this year for the republican line so we could wind up having three candidates to choose from for supervisor. With all this competition, it will be interesting to see just how much Keith Langley wants to be re-elected.
DeleteI will not be voting for any of the Rep. or Dem. candidates for Supervisor or Town Board this year. I've had enough. I plan to write in the names of good and honest people who are not part of either the Reps or the Dems It's too bad we don't have non-partisan elections in EG.
ReplyDeleteUnfortunately, anyone who runs on either of the 2 major tickets will be tainted by the actions of those who have come before and who have managed to run this town into the ground. We need to rid this government of the insiders and hangers-on. It is not going to be easy and anyone who gets elected and wants to clean up will have a lot of sleepless nights. Langley will not go quietly and he will leave the victor with a mess - plain and simple because the new Supe will have no say in the budget or appointments for the next year. The Planning and Zoning Boards are already stacked with those who have looked the other way for years and have their own self-interests at heart. No - I am not talking about all - but the few and you know who they are - . It will take good guys - if they are elected at least a full term to begin to make a dent in the mess. They will need our support. Suzanne
ReplyDeleteSupervisor Keith Langley has the record of leadership needed to win the support of the 2 major tickets for his re-election.
ReplyDeleteWho cares if he does, he has 2 less votes in this house!!!!
DeleteSupervisor Langley wants a cross-endorsement by the democrats. He thinks that with a cross-endorsement, he won't have to campaign door-to-door like other candidates or spend money on a campaign to get your vote. But why would the democrats cross-endorse Keith Langley? Is it because they don't have a viable candidate of their own to challenge him and win or is it because they don't think he can be beaten or is it because they consider him to be the best candidate for the job? If the democrats do give Keith Langley a cross-endorsement, at what price to the town? And what if he wins another term but he's not part of a coveted majority? The political calculus that goes into this decision is extremely complicated. Does the chairman of the democrat committee have the ability and the experience to lead the party in the right direction? For all our sakes, let's hope so.
ReplyDeleteApparently, Tuffy resigned because the Majority of Dem committee people wouldn't go along with the cross endorsement sham. They are upset with DVW cuz he was the most vocal against the deal. It is also said that DVW will be the Dem candidate, without the support of Tuffy, McCabe and the other big wigs. Maybe there is hope for DVW, after breaking away from them.
ReplyDeleteSurely, you jest..... Or is that Shirley?
DeleteTuff to find a bigger McCabian democrat than DVW!
DeleteUnfortunately, this guy has a past that he might not want broadcast in a fight-to-the-death campaign this year. He should think twice.
DeleteWhat's past is prologue....
DeleteI suspect that we will see the dems and the reps scrambling throughout the entire election season. They are done for it.
ReplyDeleteThere are now Reps who are questioning their loyalty to Langley in the light of new candidates who are coming forward. After all, Langley abandoned his loyalty to Reps everywhere when he slithered to the Dems for a cross-endorsement. IF the cross happens, it won't come cheaply. Most current town employees will have to kiss their jobs goodbye as they're replaced by Dems as repayment for the cross. Town hall will look like it did when Rick McCabe was supervisor. Oh, Mr. Langley, what a tangled web we weave, when first we practice to deceive.
ReplyDeleteAll he hadda do was be a decent guy with the two newbies on the board. Wouldn't that have been so much easier than the path he chose? This guy has seriously impaired judgement. How can anyone even think about reelecting him? It makes no sense.
DeleteEven if Keith Langley is cross-endorsed by the Democrats, it doesn't mean people will vote for him. There will be another choice on the ballot this year, and maybe as many as three choices for Supervisor if things go really badly for Mr. Langley. Time will tell what he's up against.
ReplyDeleteDear Gadfly, I'm getting mixed messages on a very important issue relating to the upcoming election. It is my understanding that Counsel Person Matters is putting her support behind Jack Conway for all his hard work apposing the Casino. It's now being said that she is throwing her support behind Mike Poorman who was a supporter of the Casino. Do you know if there is any truth to this?
ReplyDeleteWhat ever happenred to the Cooper Ave scandal. Is there a reason ZBA chairman Jeffrey Pangburn hasn't addressed this issue or is he and other members of the ZBA avoiding it for some unknown reason?
ReplyDeleteIsn't Jeff Pangburn a very close friend to our head building inspector?
DeleteWhat Pangburn said at the last ZBA meeting was that the ZBA had not received and was awaiting "guidance" from the Building Department. They've got a hot potato on their hands. Start with the illegal Plat approval by the Planning Board Chairman a year ago last January for the Thompson Way project and then culminating with an illegal sewer connection at Cooper Ave. and then throw in the casino mischief .... the insiders have really compromised the futures of those politicians who have courted them for so long. The culture of corruption is even under attack in the Assembly and Senate. Geeze....even some Dems have had enough. What this town needs is a good perp walk. If DiNapoli hadn't been compromised a few years ago, we'd have had one then.
ReplyDeleteWHAT!!!!!! The ZBA should be guiding the building department. ARE YOU KIDDING ?
DeleteI agree with the Sword. The monkey business will continue until the people intervene via election or it just becomes too costly via law enforcement.
ReplyDeleteHow is this year going to be any different? You have Dave VanWormer who is connected at the hip with Rick McCabe and the rest of the Dem machine getting the Dem endorsement for Supervisor. Then you have Mike Poorman with a capital R stamped on his forehead trying to get the Republican machine endorsement for supervisor who is best friends with Brian Hart.
DeleteThey are all connected. Very frustrating.
Where does all this leave Supervisor Keith Langley?
DeleteThat's funny, Sword, the ZBA is waiting for "guidance" from the Building Department? Isn't that a bit like the Jets waiting for guidance from the Sharks (West Side Story)? The bottom line is that they're ALL bad news.
ReplyDeleteI'm sick of this town being down. Given its close proximity to Albany, East Greenbush should be one of the most desirable towns in the Capital District in which to live and raise a family, yet we don't even have a town planner. Columbia Turnpike should be bustling with business but instead a lot of it's buildings are outdated and shabby looking. We don't even have a McDonald's! Clifton Park is looking at acquiring a medical marijuana dispensary for their town, which should bring in a lot of out-of-towners who will also spend money in their stores and restaurants. This sounds like a good idea for their economy. Maybe it could also work for Columbia Turnpike in EG?
ReplyDeleteThe main agenda has been personal pocket lining by the insiders. No inspired vision for the community. Think we can change that?
DeleteYES, with the right people on the town board! Not everyone is corrupt. We must believe that and do our homework into the backgrounds of candidates. This year, we must also have candidate debates.
DeleteNO LANGLEY - NO MALONE 2015!
From DVW's FB page:
Delete"29 years ago today, I started my Law Enforcement Career(which didn't end so good!). Now, 29 years to the day later, I begin my political career, as I have secured the Democratic Endorsement to run for Town of East Greenbush Supervisor! I will accept votes from all persuasions, D,R,I,C etc., so my friends who are not a D, you can still vote for me in November. Thanks to the committee for choosing me."
Does Mr. VW not understand the democratic nominating process? Nominations happen in September at the caucus. If he secures the nomination, is he willing to have the sordid details of his past made public? He should think twice for it surely won't "end so good" yet again.
DeleteIs this some kind of practical joke? It just makes no sense.
DeleteSorry, Dave....But anyone even associated with law enforcement,Renss.politics;McCabe;Tuffy:McLangley;Malone;Mangold;Maney;Hart...Need not even try,or apply.
DeleteThanks for mudding the waters.
As the Gadfly stated the main agenda has been lining their own pockets, and not taking care of this town or the people in it, so needless to say some things have gone to waste, like most of 9&20.
DeleteStart now, folks, researching the backgrounds of prospective candidates and SHARE YOUR FINDINGS! Research a candidate's education, employment history, experience working in a government setting, associations both family and friends, and their political affiliations. Who they associate with and those who support their candidacy will tell you a lot about their politics. Their employment history, both past and present, will tell something about why they're running. Is the candidate for Supervisor gainfully employed, under-employed, unemployed, happily or unhappily employed, or retired? Also look into the candidates goals for the town and question them about HOW they plan to achieve their goals. Don't accept the usual campaign rhetoric like "I will lower taxes." Make them tell you HOW they will lower taxes. The time has long come for the electorate to literally INTERVIEW candidates for the job. You can't be employed by McDonald's flipping burgers without first going on an interview and you can't get elected in East Greenbush any longer without first doing the same. Make them work for your vote because, as Mr. Langley has demonstrated time and time again, after they're elected, the Q & A period is over.
ReplyDeleteA good start might be for Supervisor Langley and CP Malone to post their biographies on the Town Website. C'mon fellas you've been in office for years. What's the hold up? Mangold, Matters and DiMartino were able to do it. Why not you guys?
DeleteSome people just don't have much to brag about. These may be two such people. As long as we're researching into candidates backgrounds, I'd like to know the five biggest accomplishments of Mr. Langley and Mr. Malone since they were first elected. This is a fair question.
DeleteDVW's character is, sadly, going to be like the proverbial millstone around his neck. He was fired from his cop job for sleeping on the job and using the town's computer for personal business . His termination was not challenged by the union.
ReplyDeleteHis bar was cited for serving underage people.
As DPW Commish he cost all of us money as he completely mismanaged the town's fuel tanks and created another environmental mess.
His close personal connection to ousted former supervisor McCabe is not going to generate any favorable votes except from the same damnable people who got, and try to keep, OUR town in the same messes that have plagued us for years.
Phil Malone made the motion, and Phil's Mother made the second to nominate him. DVW is up to his ears in all that past corruption of the McCabe era. They are determined to resurrect that group.
DeleteAnyone who would put their name on that Democrat ticket with DVM would have to be out of their mind. Talk about the potential to get dragged through the mud.
ReplyDelete