Monday, June 9, 2014

Some things to think about......

I was just getting ready to do a new Post about why the County Republicans are dumping on East Greenbush again, when the material below came in from an anonymous friend.  It raises some interesting points and helps to see things in perspective.  I don't think there is any question that our local Pols got snookered.  They're just not that bright, and they started chasing rainbows and had visions of being municipal saviors.  And the County people pushing this East Greenbush option are just not that bright either. 

Here's the anonymous contribution to the discussion: 

"Perhaps it is time to step back for a second and evaluate this scenario objectively.  I don't mean stop opposing, just review some valid points.

1.) The number one siting criteria, weighted to 70% of the decision is economic need and benefit.  Is there anyone in the Capital Region, including Cuomo himself, that is prepared to make the argument that East Greenbush has a greater economic need than Rensselaer or Schenectady?  Also, don't forget that economically challenged Amsterdam is still in the hunt and possibly Howes Cave.  By virtue of the siting criteria that his own board established, East Greenbush should be out of the running.

2.) East Greenbush has yet to vote; however, the hurdles that this site has to overcome are significant.  They can talk all they want about new roads and exits off of I90, but the odds of that happening in the time frame required to open a casino are slim.  In a perfect world, completing SEQRA alone would take a long time.

3.) It really doesn't matter if this was a republican or a democratic proposal, the republicans are fools if they approve a casino in a residential neighborhood in long standing republican district.  They have severely underestimated the opposition and their own people if they think this is going to be embraced in any significant way in a residential neighborhood.  Locate it in a more remote area with less of an impact and fine, but there?

4.) Anyone who believe that this group, chose this site because of that view is fooling themselves.  They were desperate to have a site they could apply with and were grasping at straws when they rolled the dice on that site.  This deal was engineered by the few who benefit and have benefitted for years and it's likely that the old guard democrats suckered the republicans into thinking they'd be the savors of East Greenbush with this place.  GOP gets the black eye and the dems sit back... pretty slick.

5.) The big loser in all of this will ultimately be the NYS Lottery system, not horse racing.  OTB and the harness track and horse bettors are a different breed than casino gamblers. Casino gamblers are slot machine people.  They can't get that thrill on line.  They will take their ten to twenty dollars per day that they spend on lottery tickets and use that to play the slots and likely win just about as often.  Casino gamblers go to brick and mortar casinos because there is a thrill associated with it an they justify it as entertainment.  Where else can you go, play with the same twenty dollars for a couple of hours, maybe win, maybe lose, but get a free drink and be around the excitement.  That is the mindset of a gambler.  This is a little more than a shift of gambling dollars.  No whales will be high rolling in East greenbush so the notion that the revenue is going to be through the roof or that our taxes will go down any percent, let alone thirty percent, is just marketing fluff.

6.) The developers in East Greenbush have not been truthful and should be suspect at this point.  When they tell an assembled crowd that no one is interested in Rensselaer and that it is too small, what do they say when there is actually a proposal, from a bigger player, on that site.  They also fail to mention that they were interested in the site as well.

7.)  Everyone says this is a political deal and the Governor will put it where he wants to.  Really?  Didn't he get in trouble not too long ago by trying to steer the work to a friend of his for work on the Tappanzee?  Too many eyes on this to allow the Governor to interfere.  He ain't the best guy, but he also can't afford a black eye before or after the election if he has national aspirations and who wants a guy who ignores the girl scouts of America running their country?!

One last note.  To anyone who has watched the casino industry or witnessed where they typically site casinos, name a location where they have sited one in an affluent community, in a residential neighborhood, where it is somewhat congested.  Name one.  Even Rensselaer doesn't fit that criteria all that well other than economic need.

Casinos are typically located in depressed areas where property values are already way down or in areas where there is nothing around.  The four other sites noted in this process so far, Rensselaer, Schenectady, Amsterdam/Florida and Howe Caves all are better candidates than East Greenbush.  The East Greenbush proposal was a desperate attempt by a guy who thought he had a lock in Saratoga.  Even Saratoga, by the way the siting criteria is written, wouldn't get the ultimate nod.  Let's try not to ignore the obvious.  Cuomo and people at the state level know everything we know about the detriment of casinos.  In fact, Uncle Mario is likely warning his son about the backlash this can have on his political career if he puts it in the wrong place.

No folks, the play here is to locate a casino in the spot that can have the least impact on your reputation and/or the spot that begs for it the hardest so that in the end they can't cry foul that the State crammed it down their throats.  This is not a done deal in East Greenbush and the louder the opposition gets, the more likely the siting board will avoid it."

19 comments:

  1. This is a great set of comments. The most important is that this is not a done deal and people need to continue to apply pressure to oppose this monstrosity. The politicians can try to spin this any way they'd like but the people of East Greenbush don't want a casino on Thompson Hill.

    I read the site selection criteria a little differently. It seems to be mostly about impact and not as much about need or distressed communities as people have been saying. The law is called the NYS Gaming Economic Development Act and all of the promotional materials for it stressed that casinos will be located in places where there will the greatest economic development bang for the buck. That still doesn't make EG a good spot but they don't have to argue that we're distressed, only that putting it here would spur development.

    You make a great point about this being a desperation play after the people of Saratoga sent these guys packing. By the way, everyone believes it would have gone to Saratoga if it had public support and that underlines my point about impact being more important than need. Your analysis of how and why Thompson Hill was targeted seems right on point. People need to read that part of your post very carefully.

    The lottery will be the big loser argument is way more important than people realize. The Philadelphia Federal Reserve did a study of casino gambling as it was coming into Pennsylvania and their literature review showed that the lottery loses between 56 and 83 cents on every dollar spent in a new casino. I was amazed at those numbers but it's another example of the 'substitution effect," whereby casinos substitute for existing economic practices and don't create the net gains their advocates like to brag about.

    Also true is your assertion that casinos haven't historically fit in places like Thompson Hill. The industry has two primary models - urban casinos and rural casinos. EG is neither and Saratoga Casino & Raceway's boast that it will be a 'Vegas-style' casino means they are using the urban model. That's the one that does the most damage to a city. You can only imagine what it will do a bedroom community like ours.

    This is an important post. I hope people read it and think about it. Thanks for posting it.

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  2. Has the Rensselaer County Legislature passed a Resolution supporting the City of Rensselaer Casino proposal? If not, why not?

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  3. I think we need to recognize that we have a delegation in the County legislature representing this region - including Phil Danaher - who is also the Attorney to the EG Planning Board which is dumping this issue on us which is splitting our Town. What could they be thinking of? No research. Just lockstep with the County Executive. When can real values replace Party loyalty in governing? Time to start answering that question.

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  4. The Sword of the Lord and of GideonJune 9, 2014 at 7:20 PM

    In connection with point #4 in the Post, I wouldn't be at all surprised if part of the mix includes the illegal final Plat approval signed by the Chairman of the Planning Board in January without a meeting or a resolution of the Planning Board for the Thompson Way development. Something was going on which we haven't seen the end of yet. So the Dems don't get to sit back and laugh quite yet. They've all got dirty hands on this one.

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  5. And Supervisor Langley and his SWF majority was directly responsible for re-appointing the Chairman of the Planning Board. That appointment took place at the same Town Board Organizational meeting where the newly appointed PB Attorney and the Court Attendant/Republican Chairman was approved.
    Not good, Mr. Langley, not good at all.

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  6. Note to Mr. Langley......If you canned the casino idea and some of your immediate advisers and got that "kitchen cabinet" you were offered over two years ago, you just might make it to a second term (and maybe a third) as the person who changed governance in East Greenbush for the better. You have one chance. Feathers hasn't dealt you a very good hand, has he..... And the County people have you holding the bag, don't they. Think they care?

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  7. @ 8:24 PM, Unfortunately,, based on his past performance, it doesn't appear as if Mr. Langley is smart enough to follow your very sound advice..
    Time will tell..

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  8. Peanuts n crackerjacksJune 9, 2014 at 9:29 PM

    Telephone polling tonight. Question #1: Who would you vote for Governor if the election were today? Question #2: Do you want a casino in East Greenbush? Conclusion: Is the Governor worried that the casino fallout may hurt his reelection?

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  9. The Schen. City Council voted 5-2 Mon. night in favor of supporting a $350 million casino project at the former ALCO site.
    Great Canadian , a large Canadian gambling co., has joined what's so far an all-Canadian team planning a major gambling project at Exit 27 in Amsterdam.
    Both articles are from Capitol Confidential.
    Guess we do Not need a casino in EG.





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  10. Is Supervisor Langley planning on holding another 8:45 AM Friday "Special" Town Board meeting to vote on the Casino Resolution? Thanks to Councilpersons Mangold, Malone, Matters and DiMartino people must be now allowed to speak at Mr. Langley's "Special" meetings.
    No surprise that Supervisor Langley was the only NO vote. Mr. Langley didn't want to allow the people to comment because he "doesn't want them to take over the meeting."
    Let them eat cake Mr. Langley???

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  11. Don't forget-- The Town Board pre-Board meeting is scheduled for this Thursday June, 12th at 4pm at Town Hall.

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  12. The pre-board meeting has been changed to a Special Meeting for 4:30 p.m. this Thursday June 12th to vote on a site specific resolution. The open and transparent Smart Way Forward is making another huge decision as far away from the public eye as possible. I wonder if this board will ever make a crucial decision in the public eye.

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  13. Tom Grant, the elderJune 10, 2014 at 2:58 PM

    This is absolutely incredible! You just can't make this stuff up! There is no logical reason why this site specific resolution couldn't be considered at the regularly scheduled meeting on Wednesday June 18th. The deadline for submission to the Gaming Commission is not until June 30th. Whether one is for or against the Casino in East Greenbush, this is just wrong. I am extremely disappointed in Superivsor Langley and I don't believe I am the only one.

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    1. you're definitely not in the minority being extremely disappointed in Supervisor Langley or the entire SWF for that matter

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    2. Agreed. Supervisor Langley doesn't seem to have any aptitude for the job of Town Supervisor at all. He doesn't seem to enjoy any interactions with people outside of his very small inner circle. Does anyone have any basic information regarding his professional and educational background? I looked for a biography of him on the Town website and was not able to locate it.

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    3. I'm with you. Langley is way off base to have this meeting at a time when many taxpayers are working and are not able to attend. What gives Supe??

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    4. Maybe Langley figures the less people are there to cause interference, the easier it is to manipulate other board member's votes into saying yes when they may actually want to vote no. It was unanimous before when noone else was there when they didn't know what they were supposedly voting on.

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  14. Tom Grant, the elderJune 10, 2014 at 3:15 PM

    As an aside, kudos to Councilperson Sue Mangold for passing the Resolution, over Supervisor Langley's objection, which will enable all Special Meeting attendees the opportunity to voice their comments at this Very Special Meeting.

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  15. From the TU dated November 1, 2011: Meet the East Greenbush Candidates

    "Langley

    My name is Keith Langley. I am a lifelong resident of East Greenbush, 55 years. I have the most incredible family that anyone could ask for. I love my wife, daughter and son more than anything in the world. Everyone that knows me can tell you that I am a man of honor, integrity and a committed father. I work for Rifenburg Contracting, which is one of the largest excavation contractors in the capital region. I am a project superintendent/site safety coordinator, which means I’m responsible for every life at each job site that I’m on."

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