Well here are some of the reasons:
1) You all kept the casino initiative secret from the citizens of the Town, and sprung it on us with a late starting Resolution on April 16th.
2) There was no due diligence. You didn't do any homework before voting on that Resolution. You really forgot who you worked for.
3) You refused to engage the massive amounts of research sent to you related to the effects of casinos on communities. In the prepared statements that three of you read after your vote on Thursday, not one of you addressed any of that literature. You could have at least addressed the report of the Comptroller of the State of New York.
4) You violated the Open Meetings Law by scheduling your Thursday meeting at an unnecessarily inconvenient time, in a room too small to accommodate those who wanted to attend, and did not provide for the ability of those attending to hear the proceedings or to speak.
5) Your meetings with the developer's representatives centered around stifling opposition and withholding information. There was even a suggestion of not holding a public meeting until after June 30th. What's reflected in those meetings is how the Town staff can best carry out the agenda and purposes of the casino developers.
6) The only information you got was PowerPoints and glossy mailers, just like the rest of us.
7) Nobody has yet to crunch any REAL numbers related to the promises. Supervisor Langley told a taxpayer that the Town would not have to hire any new law enforcement staff. The Town cops say 16 new FTE's.
8) In this connection, what gives with regard to reducing the hotel rooms from 300 to 150? No revenue effect? Gimme a break.
That's just for starters. You five Board members didn't ask any relevant questions. You refused to engage on real issues. You got into partisan and personal lock-step, put on your blinders and forged "ahead."
You couldn't have given a better political gift to those who want to get rid of Machine politics in East Greenbush.
Gadfly,
ReplyDeleteNice bit of conjecture!
You couldn't possibly know for a fact that they did as you say unless you or someone else with them 24/7:
"didn't do any homework before voting"
"refused to engage the massive amounts of research sent to you"
"The only information you got was PowerPoints and glossy mailers"
"meetings with the developer's representatives centered around stifling opposition and withholding information"
"Nobody has yet to crunch any REAL numbers related to the promises."
Also, they haven't "violated the Open Meetings Law by scheduling your Thursday meeting at an unnecessarily inconvenient time" as it was announced in sufficient time.
The "suggestion of not holding a public meeting until after June 30th." was in the Supervisor's statement in his 'report'. Not the Board.
"The Town cops say 16 new FTE's." DUH! What did you expect?
Just a couple of points now, you'll get the rest later. First the Open Meetings Law applies to a lot more that announcing in sufficient time. I think 72 hours is the time-frame prescribed in the law. Second, reasonable accommodation to all who want to attend, ability to hear the proceedings, ability to speak, etc. There were 100 people standing in the hallway, for God's sake. Special meetings are supposed to be used for time-sensitive resolutions. This one was scheduled on Thursday at 4:30 in hopes of keeping attendance down. Just like the one that Friday morning when the Supervisor's discrimination pay-out resolution was done. Didn't work then either.
DeleteTechnically yes, they DID break the public meetings law. By law they are required to:
Delete§104. Public notice.
1. Public notice of the time and place of a meeting scheduled at least one week prior thereto shall be given to the news media and shall be conspicuously posted in one or more designated public locations at least seventy-two hours before such meeting.
The public was given 48 hours notice of this special meeting!!! Put the Kool Aid down and listen to reason please.
Town § 62. Meetings of town board.
Delete2. The town board of every town of the first class shall hold at least one meeting in each month. The supervisor of any town may, and upon written request of two members of the board shall within ten days, call
a special meeting of the town board by giving at least two days notice in writing to members of the board of the time when and the place where the meeting is to be held.
Apology accepted.
Not quite so fast. This looks very much like one of those glitches which the Legislative Bill Drafting Commission didn't catch when the Open Meetings Law was passed. The usual procedure, from my experience, is that when later legislation is enacted, previous laws are amended to conform.
DeleteIn any case, it is not necessarily this matter which is of central concern. It's the inadequacy of the setting and the inability to hear and speak. There were 100 people in the hallway.
I certainly won't be voting for Keith Langley again, that's for sure!!!!
ReplyDelete@ 7., Why won't Keith Langley allow his Comptroller to release the audit information we paid for?
ReplyDeleteDemocrats are just going to role out some new candidates to run next year and try to convince everyone they were against the casino. Casino comes, and guess what Democrats role McCabe back out to spend all the money. "Happy Times" will be here again. The empty halls of town hall will once again be FILLED with friends and family.
ReplyDeleteWhat type of candidates do you suppose the Chris DeFruscio Republicans will role out to run next year?
ReplyDeleteI'm guessing that they'll try to re-tread Langley and run Gilbert and Mulvey. The Dems will have a serious problem because (whether the casino is a reality or not) that illegal final Plat approval for Thompson Way is not going to go away that fast. And I hear that the sewer line up Thompson Hill road, which appeared under dubious circumstances, is still under litigation. These boys never stop.
DeleteDear Gadfly,
ReplyDeleteIt might be worthwhile for the CasiNO folks to touch base with some of the local and state wide environmental groups, including the Governor's former brother in law Bobby Kennedy, and ask them to weigh in with the Siting Commission regarding the potential environmental impacts of the proposed casino project up on Thompson Hill.
Bet they'd also be willing to help the town with the SEQRA report.
After all, they've been able to block fracking in NYS, lets see what they might be able to do here.
I'm sure Mr. Kennedy would be interested in hearing from concerned EG folks.
To History Repeating ItselfJune 15, 2014 at 4:54 PM;
ReplyDeleteThe Town Halls are filled with friends and family now. All we did was trade one group of thieving connivers for another. Keith hires a friend and creates a position for him, full-time paid with benefits, Deputy DPW Commish. Gilbert, now paid Deputy Super. Be honest, this group is no better, and possible WORSE, than the last group.
Well.....Feathers named it Capital View. So our little town becomes a paved-over extension of Albany for gambling.
ReplyDeleteAnd this from Rita Cox.....
ReplyDelete"Surrounded by tranquil ponds and flowing streams, Capital View Casino & Resort will boast an ambiance that builds on the natural beauty of the surrounding area. The stately Dutch Colonial building will reflect the architectural vision of early European settlers, who dreamed of a New Netherland. The regal estate will be the capstone of the surrounding countryside, replete with well-manicured formal gardens, a walking path and hand-tended vegetable and herb gardens that will supply fresh produce to the farm-to-table restaurants inside."
As somebody said on FaceBook, they want us to think of it as a Zen vegetable garden. What a crock!!!
Dear Gadfly @ 7:40 AM, Seems like they no longer are proposing to have gambling at the "Resort." The new description now reads more like a Block Island vacation than a "destination casino."
ReplyDeleteInstead of getting a decent audit report out and following the recommendations of previous audit reports and getting down to the business of municipal management, the Town Board has settled in with KoolAid and the Alice B. Toklas cookbook. Do you think they actually expect us to believe this stuff? It's really tragic.
DeleteI hope to see a large crowd participating in the public comment portion of tomorrow's 7pm Town Board meeting. Remember the comments can address any areas of concern. The topic does not have to be on that night's Town Board agenda. Let's continue to use our voices to speak truth to power!!!
ReplyDeleteThe expectation of the social responsibility model is that a detailed cost/benefit analysis will be made prior to determining whether to proceed with an activity and that social costs will be given significant weight in the decision-making process. Almost any business action will entail some social costs. The basic question is whether the benefits outweigh the costs so that there is a net social benefit. Many questions of judgment arise, and there are no precise mathematical measures in the social field, but rational and wise judgements can be made if the issues are first thoroughly explored.
ReplyDeleteDavies, Five Propositions for Social Responsibility
Right On Jim_C!!!!! The Board didn't do its due diligence. They conspired with the County Republicans to "make it happen" without any input from the people. And I have primary documentary evidence of this which will come out tomorrow.
DeleteI don't think are town board has ever done their due diligence, and I think we sometimes give them more credit than they deserve.
DeleteGreat quote Jim. It's amazing how radical basic common sense seems at the moment. I agree the board doesn't always do their due diligence but the stakes (ouch!) are never this high. That's what makes me mad about how they approached this. They should have recognized the unprecedented nature of this project and taken unprecedented steps, including a referendum. One of my complaints in recent years has been that every time a technical issue comes before the board they march out an army of consultants. This time there's wasn't a one. That's why it seems like an unavoidable conclusion that outside forces told them how to vote. We were disenfranchised twice, first when they didn't have independent voices and second when they didn't hear a word we said.
ReplyDeleteJack, I just want to thank you for all you are doing. God Bless You.
ReplyDeleteThanks Catherine, you're way too kind to me. The astonishing thing about this casino dust-up is how many people have stepped forward and worked so hard because they have strong feelings about what's going on.
ReplyDeleteThe "Casino FOIL" is up on the Times Union website. Here's the link:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.scribd.com/doc/230268389/East-Greenbush-FOIL-Request-on-Casino-Meetings
Town Board tonight was extremely encouraging. (Except for the profane outburst from the Grand Torino.) People who have not been there before took the time to come out and voice their opposition - even after last week's vote - to the casino resolution.
ReplyDeleteAs the FOIL revealed, this operation was primarily a politically driven initiative from Troy. Look at the last page of the FOIL and you'll see a meeting before the session at Columbia and those in attendance are somebody from Churchill Downs, a couple of Town staff and Chris DeFruscio and Rich Crist. The Board didn't matter much, except to take orders.
Our elected representatives became water carriers and spear chuckers.
Mangold is carrying the water for her brother and the family electrical business. She stated the Youth Director was doing an excellent job then refused to support her for additional compensation for additional work. That didn't stop Mangold from voting yes on a $300,000,000 Casino that her family stands to make millions from. It's being said Phil is carrying the water for the county repubs. in exchange for support against McLaughlin. Of course Langley and Matters have to be county carriers remember where this all started. Vote them out.
DeleteCouncilperson Mangold's vote on the Youth Director issue was correct. The way the additional monetary increase was presented by Supervisor Langley is for all intents and purposes a liaison stipend. Ms Mangold's suggestion that if the Board majority wanted to give the Youth Director a monetary increase it should be done as an amendment to the salary schedule with an attached job description was appropriate.
ReplyDeleteThe last thing we need is for Supervisor Langley to begin awarding stipends to favored employees without written job descriptions. How long before Deputy Supervisor, Ed Gilbert and Court Attendant, Chris DeFruscio begin receiving Langley stipends?
Not good Mr. Langley, not good at all.
Agreed ... there's a right way and a wrong (smart way forward) way!
DeleteLast night's Town Board meeting featured a bizarre approach to the public comment session. The agenda said speakers would have the usual five minutes and for a while they did. Then the Supervisor tired of open government and reduced it to three saying we might be here for a long time if he didn't. It was 7:55 p.m. when he made that statement. Less than ten minutes later he reduced it to two minutes and then called an arbitrary end to the public comment session. Bonnie Lester and possibly others wanted to speak but weren't given the chance. I realize it's hard to sit there and listen to people tell you they're not happy with the job you're doing but it is part of en elected official's obligations.
ReplyDeleteSay what you want about Rick McCabe but he answered questions during the public comment period and I remember nights when we walked out of there at 10:30 p.m. and later. It's the Town Board's job to sit there for as long as people have comments to make, five minutes at a time. We elected you, we pay your salary, and, in this case, you sold our town down the river so we have some things we want to say to you. If our anger hits a nerve, what does that tell you?
But as the FOIL documents show, process isn't important when you're doing whatever you damn please. As we move forward on this casino issue I hope we can get some more humility from our Town Board and a greater understanding that this is our town, not theirs. If we want to speak at public meetings you should want to listen. If you don't, then do what you should have done the day you passed the resolution of support: stand up, apologize to the people of East Greenbush and resign your seat.
Jack,
DeleteRick McCabe not only answered questions but ALLOWED THEM TO BE ASKED!
... there's a right way and a wrong (smart way forward) way!
Jack,
DeleteI couldn't agree with you more. While I certainly don't agree with Rick McCabe on every single issue, I have always appreciated his willingness to answer questions from his constituents. Based on what I saw and heard at last night's Town Board meeting, it might be worthwhile for Supervisor Langley to reach out to former Supervisor McCabe for instruction on how to effectively conduct a public meeting.
So Keith Langley's close adviser, Johnny Tirino, felt the need to shout out that a 14 year old Town resident "shouldn't be allowed to comment (during the public comment portion of the Town Board meeting) because she can't vote and doesn't pay taxes."
ReplyDeleteThat may be the "Langley Way" but it sure isn't the American Way.
Mr. Langley and Mr Tirino must have skipped EVERY SINGLE ONE of their high school civics and social studies classes.
This is what now passes for governance in the Town of East Greenbush?
let's not forget JT's profanity ... as Anonymous June 19, 2014 6:23 AM commented on Talks
Deleteand Langley sat like a deer caught in the headlights while his BFF called for limiting comments to voters or property owners and unleashed his profanity.
Thank our stars JT doesn't formally call the shots or he might not let women speak at future meetings.
congrats to the young lady who spoke her mind causing JT's hissy fit.
congrats to the member of the audience who called for order.
Why was it ok for the Deputy Commissioners (Fiacco) daughter to talk at a recent Town Board meeting but not this young lady?
DeleteWhat happened to civility? I may not be liked by some but I will always treat people with respect unless they give me some reason not to. So I asked again civility, where is it?
DeleteJim -
DeleteYou're right. civility is the key, especially when emotions run as hot as they do on the casino issue. Someone on the Talks blog wrote that I treated anyone who's in favor of the casino like they were the Anti-Christ. Beside being a bit over-dramatic, it simply isn't true. I am mad at the members of the Town Board but they have to be held to a different standard. I get why people support the casino even though I don't, but more importantly I respect their right to their opinion. That's why I said from the start we should have a referendum and if a majority want it then let's have it and if they don't then send it packing.
Last weekend Jo Ann and I ran into a guy who was putting up pro-casino signs near our house. He waved when he saw me and laughingly offered me a sign. We had a friendly conversation, shook hands and wished each other well. My son asked if I was worried if he would take the sign off our lawn when we left. I said there isn't a chance in the world he would and of course he didn't. He was a good man working for what he believed in. That's no more and no less than what Jo Ann and I are trying to do. When this issue is finally decided we have to go back to being friends and neighbors. The key to that is being civil in our disagreements.
The state of affairs in East Greenbush leadership is now beyond a joke, its outright SAD ! Resident are left with nothing left to do but hang their heads in shame. We have got to be the laughing stock of the entire capital district. They cannot even balance their financial books after paying for two separate outside audits and don't dare ask for an explanation !! BUT don't worry the casino will save us all...
ReplyDeleteThe "Capital View Casino" facebook page mentioned all of the details will be in their June 30th application so their giving their basic generic spiel to anyone who asks without giving the actual facts or a more thorough explanation. This is that moment when the supporters will think they are a getting a Cadillac but instead will get a Pinto of a casino. Any real details are being withheld for a reason just so they can keep the support hanging on the line.
ReplyDelete"One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors." -
ReplyDeleteNot to worry, anon 1:14. I will continue to seek an audit and ask where the money has gone or is going. The books must be balanced and we should not lightly tollerate any further delay.
ReplyDeleteI know your "on the job" & do please keep up the good work !!!!! 1:14
DeleteDoes anyone know how the state will evaluate the applications? For example, other communities are in total support; clearly not so for East Greenbush residents even though Board rubber stamped and ignored the will of the majority of residents. Will that be weighted in the process or strictly the vote of the town?
ReplyDeletelet's not forget decreasing comments from 5 minutes to 3 minutes then 2 minutes and how downright rude he was to not only Eileen Grant but to Tom Grant as well.
ReplyDeleteHere's the thing I don't understand. Someone, someone should have had the balls to say no just so they wouldn't like bad when the casino doesn't get approved. Realize this isn't in the bag. Unless the County has paid off lots of people to make this happen then its a shot in the dark.
ReplyDeleteCheck the NYS Gaming Commission Website- It gives the criteria and the weight of the criteria--for choosing casino site
ReplyDeleteWhere was everyone to speak out against Rensselaer's Casino project this week. Don't you people realize that project will have a greater negative affect on East Greenbush than Thompson Hill. My god people, Rensselaer " WILL" be a replication of Atlantic City. Can you imagine the increase in crime, prostitution, illegal drugs in a city that can't control these problems now. These problems will spill right over into our town. Locks on your doors will do you no good. Dont just say no to Casinos in East Greenbush, say NO to casinos in Rensselaer county. Shame on you Kathy Jimino, you created this monster.
ReplyDeleteDon't forget to blame Cuomo and his personal friend and attorney, Feathers, who also has connections to all those who gave resolutions to favor the cansino EG. He's also an alum of the college where the gaming commission chair is president. Don't forget that Cuomo appointed the gaming commission and the board who will choose the site
DeleteAccording to the TU "There was no public comment permitted on the proposed riverfront casino."
Deletehttp://www.timesunion.com/local/article/Rensselaer-casino-plans-to-be-unveiled-5564009.php
Rather gaudy rendition of the proposed casino I might add.
Becky, No offense, but there is an underbelly in EG too, most people just don't see it.
DeleteI'll take Rensselaer over East Greenbush! The majority of Rensselaer taxpayers want it. The majority of East Greenbush residents don't.
ReplyDeleteThe Hard Rock Group has conducted detailed research which indicates that the Rensselaer project is viable from their company perspective. The Rensselaer location is shovel ready and the SEQRA process and traffic studies have been completed per Mayor Dwyer.
ReplyDeleteEast Greenbush, under the "leadership" of Supervisor Langley, has "the resolution is the resolution."
This shouldn't be a close decision at all for the State Siting Commission. If the process is fair, it should be between Rensselaer and Schenectady.
Remember this the next time JimiNO runs for office.
ReplyDeleteCatherine,
ReplyDeleteThe County Executive election isn't until November, 2017. We all need to be focused on the East Greenbush Town elections of November, 2015. I know I will be.
Dan Dwyer has been open and transparent about his vote on the Rensselaer Casino. Keith Langley's secret and sneaky manner about the East Greenbush Casino means he not suitable for re-election. Anyone but Langley in 2015!!!!
ReplyDeleteI really think a Hard Rock is more fun and a better draw than a steak house would be. I prefer the view of the river from Rensselaer to the view from Thompson Hill in East Greenbush, which is really a family neighbohood and not a commercial area. It also seems like Mayor Dwyer has been fair and honest with the people and the developer has given accurate information as it becomes available. Keith Langley, in sharp contrast to Mayor Dwyer, has been less forthcoming and there is support for the theory that he conspired to mislead us. I like the casino concept but I hate being bamboozled by our elected officials. For that reason, I favor the Hard Rock on the Hudson.
ReplyDelete